Ivanka Trump Wants America to Kick Addiction to Four-Year College, Massive Student Debt

[Right_in_Virginia]

Ivanka Trump Wants America to Kick Addiction to Four-Year College, Massive Student Debt
Breitbart, Mar 21, 2019, John Carney

America’s ever-deepening college debt problem is really a symptom of a worse malady: our societal addiction to college itself.

Any sober assessment of the facts would indicate that too many Americans are going to college. As a result, college costs—and debt—have skyrocketed while the rewards for college have plunged.

Yet this is something that has escaped the attention of our political elites. And, as it turns out, our financial and cultural elites—as the recent college admissions scandal indicates. Many Democrats want to double-down, promising “free college” to young people—a euphemism for college funded by taxpayers.

Perhaps surprisingly, Ivy-league educated Ivanka Trump has recently come out as a skeptic about America’s love affair with college. The first daughter has taken up a leadership role in the Trump administration’s workforce development efforts—and shown a remarkable candidness when it comes to our college problem.

“I think culturally, for a long time we have created and perpetuated the narrative that there is one pathway to achieving the American dream and its four-year university,” Ms. Trump said in a recent interview.

Trump goes on:

That has been instilled into American students, it’s often American parents that feel that is the only viable path. So you have kids going into school racking up enormous amounts of student debt that they’ll often take decades if there ever able to pay it off without a skill, if they ultimately graduate. So I think opening up the prism and saying there are many different pathways.

It depends what you want in your life and taking the stigma away from those who choose alternative pathways who choose technical schools, vocational education. At the end of the day, it’s about connecting workers with their passion, with their jobs. There’s very little opportunity for somebody who wants to the vocational route, the technical route because all the money pushes you into a four-year college system.

More:  https://www.breitbart.com/economy/2019/03/21/ivanka-trump-wants-america-kick-addiction-four-year-college/

[NavyCanDo]

I heard it said once that if you do these 3 things your odds of success and living out the American dream is above 80%.

Graduate HS
Don't have children until married
Don't marry until you are at least 24.

If you add a 4th, graduate from a college or university it moves the needle up just a little, but not significant and not worth the thousands of dollars in debt it would put you.

If a degree is needed for the career path you have laid out for you, and you are committed to it, then by all means go for it. But the vast majority of college students cannot see that far into the future and later find themselves in a job not even on their radar their senior year of HS.

[Absalom]

Around 4000 BC, Mesopotamia (Iraq) emerged in the Fertile Crescent
w/cities, as Man created its earliest non-Tribal culture/society.
For the next 57 centuries Man learned and matured then prospered;
being self-taught through awareness and reflection.
Then the Enlightenment dawned around 1750 w/its siren song of betterment,
altering Man's trajectory dramatically.
Our modern isms are the product of that fateful turn.
One of the most pernicious is that learning is the result of institutions such
as universities, a modern fad, rather than from perseverance, reflection
and self-reliance. History's wise men were self taught from the earliest times.
Yet we moderns, addicted to bullshit, insist "we are the greatest".
Reality is, were it not for the genius of the past, we would be back in caves!!!

[GtHawk]

I heard it said once that if you do these 3 things your odds of success and living out the American dream is above 80%.

Graduate HS
Don't have children until married
Don't marry until you are at least 24.

If you add a 4th, graduate from a college or university it moves the needle up just a little, but not significant and not worth the thousands of dollars in debt it would put you.

If a degree is needed for the career path you have laid out for you, and you are committed to it, then by all means go for it. But the vast majority of college students cannot see that far into the future and later find themselves in a job not even on their radar their senior year of HS.

Ah crap, I screwed the pooch on number three!

[sneakypete]

It SHOULD be free for citizens to attend ANY state-supported school,PROVIDING THEY ARE CAPABLE OF DOING THE WORK.

I lost my GI Bill and ability to go for an advanced education because I ran into a anti-VN War veteran college professor,and set his ass straight on a number of things right in front of his entire class. Being a paper-pusher,he got his revenge by keeping a record of all his classes I missed due to appointments at the VA hospital,and even went so far as to change his test day to Wednesday afternoon,when I had a standing weekly appointment I couldn't get out of,and then refuse to allow me to take the test on Thursday. This resulted in my getting a zero grade,and had my GI Bill taken away from me after he forwarded his records to the VA and demanded to know why they were paying me to attend college when I clearly wasn't attending college.

Yeah,he ended up getting sent packing once his contract expired,but that didn't help me.

IF advanced educations were free at public schools for those capable of doing the work,it would have had no effect on me. I was taking 18 credit hours and had a better than 3.0 grade before I started getting zeros from him.

Besides personal stories like mine,it just makes fiscal sense to send people to schools where they can be more productive citizens because generally speaking,people with better educations not only pay more in taxes,they usually end up creating jobs and that means their employees are also contributing to the tax system.

Unfortunately we all know this will never work in the Affirmative Action world of quotas,but that can be changed,too.

[skeeter]

Agree with Ivanka on this one. They need to bring back the vocational departments in high schools, as well. There's nothing at all wrong with a trade where one gets their hands dirty. In fact, in many cases these days the 'salt mines' are in high tech clean jobs, and the skilled trades are where money is made.

[sneakypete]

 In fact, in many cases these days the 'salt mines' are in high tech clean jobs, and the skilled trades are where money is made.

@skeeter

This is especially true for the tradesmen that start their own businesses.

AND.....,it benefits everyone down the line,starting at the feral,state,and local level in increased taxes,as well as other independent local businessmen who build the houses,sell appliances,etc,etc,etc. One drop becomes a flood,whereas with welfare and a 15 dollar an hour minimum wage,every drop becomes a blockage that creates fiscal constipation and despair.

[skeeter]

@skeeter

This is especially true for the tradesmen that start their own businesses.

AND.....,it benefits everyone down the line,starting at the feral,state,and local level in increased taxes,as well as other independent local businessmen who build the houses,sell appliances,etc,etc,etc. One drop becomes a flood,whereas with welfare and a 15 dollar an hour minimum wage,every drop becomes a blockage that creates fiscal constipation and despair.

True but in CA the government's genuflecting to high tech while crushing small independent businesses with mandatory minimum wage, taxes and regulations is effectively creating an economic caste system similar to India's.

[Right_in_Virginia]

It SHOULD be free for citizens to attend ANY state-supported school,PROVIDING THEY ARE CAPABLE OF DOING THE WORK.

I lost my GI Bill and ability to go for an advanced education because I ran into a anti-VN War veteran college professor,and set his ass straight on a number of things right in front of his entire class. Being a paper-pusher,he got his revenge by keeping a record of all his classes I missed due to appointments at the VA hospital,and even went so far as to change his test day to Wednesday afternoon,when I had a standing weekly appointment I couldn't get out of,and then refuse to allow me to take the test on Thursday. This resulted in my getting a zero grade,and had my GI Bill taken away from me after he forwarded his records to the VA and demanded to know why they were paying me to attend college when I clearly wasn't attending college.

Yeah,he ended up getting sent packing once his contract expired,but that didn't help me.

IF advanced educations were free at public schools for those capable of doing the work,it would have had no effect on me. I was taking 18 credit hours and had a better than 3.0 grade before I started getting zeros from him.

Besides personal stories like mine,it just makes fiscal sense to send people to schools where they can be more productive citizens because generally speaking,people with better educations not only pay more in taxes,they usually end up creating jobs and that means their employees are also contributing to the tax system.

Unfortunately we all know this will never work in the Affirmative Action world of quotas,but that can be changed,too.

"

If the government is going to pay for higher education the individual should earn it in two ways:  First, do something for it, serve in the military, work for two years as an intern.   And then the individual should apply for a degree with a career track and only the courses that support the career should be eligible for the benefit. One track that would be mandatory would be "English:  Learn it, Love it and Speak it".   This should also apply to trade schools.

Nothing against women's studies or art history, of course.

[QueenCatofAragon]

Around 4000 BC, Mesopotamia (Iraq) emerged in the Fertile Crescent
w/cities, as Man created its earliest non-Tribal culture/society.
For the next 57 centuries Man learned and matured then prospered;
being self-taught through awareness and reflection.
Then the Enlightenment dawned around 1750 w/its siren song of betterment,
altering Man's trajectory dramatically.
Our modern isms are the product of that fateful turn.
One of the most pernicious is that learning is the result of institutions such
as universities, a modern fad, rather than from perseverance, reflection
and self-reliance. History's wise men were self taught from the earliest times.
Yet we moderns, addicted to bullshit, insist "we are the greatest".
Reality is, were it not for the genius of the past, we would be back in caves!!!

@Absalom

I believe that a person can skip college but be more well-read and informed  than someone graduating with a 4 year degree in Women’s Studies.

  People leave universities with crushing debt, a less than bright earning potential, and no ability to think critically.  Why not consider a trade?  Acquiring a skill costs a fraction of a college degree.  And you can throw in an additional $3K and get yourself well-read on your own.

https://juniperbooks.com/store/100-everymans-literary-classics/

[sneakypete]

True but in CA the government's genuflecting to high tech while crushing small independent businesses with mandatory minimum wage, taxes and regulations is effectively creating an economic caste system similar to India's.

@skeeter

They are just prepping the factory worker drones for their soylent diet. The ruling class in Ca just happen to LOVE BIG BIZ,and hate independent small businesses because they all have money invested in high tech,and the low tech guys just don't seem to want to listen to reason and toe the line.

[sneakypete]

"

If the government is going to pay for higher education the individual should earn it in two ways:  First, do something for it, serve in the military, work for two years as an intern.   And then the individual should apply for a degree with a career track and only the courses that support the career should be eligible for the benefit. One track that would be mandatory would be "English:  Learn it, Love it and Speak it".   This should also apply to trade schools.

Nothing against women's studies or art history, of course.

@Right_in_Virginia

"The Government" doesn't pay for a single damn thing. TAXPAYERS pay for it all,and the governments job is to piss it away while they seek more power via raising taxes and adding regulations.

[catfish1957]

Trump goes on:

It depends what you want in your life and taking the stigma away from those who choose alternative pathways who choose technical schools, vocational education. At the end of the day, it’s about connecting workers with their passion, with their jobs. There’s very little opportunity for somebody who wants to the vocational route, the technical route because all the money pushes you into a four-year college system.

.....sez the Trust Baby who never ever had work hard for anything in her life.   Irony drips as this is the last person of moral authority to comment on this.

[sneakypete]

@Absalom

I believe that a person can skip college but be more well-read and informed  than someone graduating with a 4 year degree in Women’s Studies.

@QueenCatofAragon

And I believe that a mature turnip is more informed than the typical Whymen's Study graduate.

 

People leave universities with crushing debt, a less than bright earning potential, and no ability to think critically.

 

Only because the left took over control of the universities starting in the 40's,and dogma suddenly became more important than open debate.

Why not consider a trade?  Acquiring a skill costs a fraction of a college degree.  And you can throw in an additional $3K and get yourself well-read on your own.

Because not everyone is mentally and emotionally "geared" to working a trade any more than everyone is mentally or emotionally equipped to deal with theoretical situations every day. Do NOT try to make the same mistake that brought us to where we are now by trying to make round pegs fit into square holes.

Some people make SUPERB teachers because above all else,they love teaching. Why would you have one of these people driving a truck for a living,for example?

A free market is more than just the free interplay of merchandise. Without the free-flow of ideas you have nothing but stagnant thought,and the withdrawal from the future instead of the advance of the future.

https://juniperbooks.com/store/100-everymans-literary-classics/

[Absalom]

Some 2,300 years past, a Greek reflected on;
* a single point in space, then
* multiple points in space, then
* these points closer and closer together forming a line.
* next he envisioned a line in a NS direction, then another
in an EW direction.
He had defined 2-dimensional space.
He continued his reflections leading to 3-dimensional space.
Euclid had created Geometry, arguably the greatest discovery
in science w/o which structure is not possible.
And the poor thing achieved this w/o a college degree! Imagine!!!

[Right_in_Virginia]

@Right_in_Virginia

"The Government" doesn't pay for a single damn thing. TAXPAYERS pay for it all,and the governments job is to piss it away while they seek more power via raising taxes and adding regulations.

Can't argue with this @sneakypete  … But if we're forced to pay for these loans or future tuition I'd like to see some strict parameters and firewalls so this doesn't become another free-for-all.

(I know … good luck with that  )

[truth_seeker]

A few years back, I met a woman in my real estate office. A high school teacher.

The topic drifted to politics and the economy. She espoused leftist positions.

To teach high school required a graduate degree (masters) in "Edeucation.

Since she was so opinionated about economics, I asked her how many classes in her advanced degree were Econ?

She replaied that none were.

[truth_seeker]

A few years back, I met a woman in my real estate office. A high school teacher.

The topic drifted to politics and the economy. She espoused leftist positions.

To teach high school required a graduate degree (masters) in "Edeucation.

Since she was so opinionated about economics, I asked her how many classes in her advanced degree were Econ?

She replaied that none were.

[sneakypete]

A few years back, I met a woman in my real estate office. A high school teacher.

The topic drifted to politics and the economy. She espoused leftist positions.

To teach high school required a graduate degree (masters) in "Edeucation.

Since she was so opinionated about economics, I asked her how many classes in her advanced degree were Econ?

She replaied that none were.

@truth_seeker

Dims are all about dreams and dreamers. Reality must never be allowed to intrude.

[sneakypete]

@truth_seeker

Dims are all about dreams and dreamers. Reality must never be allowed to intrude because it might harsh someone's buzz.

[truth_seeker]

@truth_seeker

Dims are all about dreams and dreamers. Reality must never be allowed to intrude.

It took me 8 years to get a bachelors, with GI Bill plus work.

[Chosen Daughter]

Agree with Ivanka on this one. They need to bring back the vocational departments in high schools, as well. There's nothing at all wrong with a trade where one gets their hands dirty. In fact, in many cases these days the 'salt mines' are in high tech clean jobs, and the skilled trades are where money is made.

I can agree with Ivanka that young people are going into debt.  They are supposed to be able to obtain jobs when they graduate.  But thanks to our corrupt visa program foreigners come and get educated then take the jobs.  And these "private" colleges receive Federal Funding too.  The real education that these students come out with is the Social Engineering they received for 4 years. 

We can really thank the government for screwing Americans out of a good education that is supposed to provide them with the skills to make a living.

So instead of addressing the problem with government corruption of foreign work visa's.  We encourage Americans not to even try to get an education.  Because our MAGA government wants foreigners to come.  Get educations and be hired by these companies on H1-B.

http://www.myvisajobs.com/Reports/2018-H1B-Visa-Sponsor.aspx

[Chosen Daughter]

Its clear as a bell.  Americans are not encouraged to make anything out of their lives.  Taxpayers continue to support a government that gives American jobs away to foreigners.  MAGA Presidents daughter is just being honest that American corporations don't hire Americans so don't go into debt for a degree that won't support you.  That only leads to student loans you can't pay because our Government continues to raise the level of foreign worker visa's for college education jobs.

[Chosen Daughter]

Here is the truth:

http://thoughtfulreading.com/psychology/employment/top-5-reasons-college-graduates-cant-find-a-job-in-america-and-what-you-can-do-about-it/

Yeah, white males need not apply.

[roamer_1]

Its clear as a bell.  Americans are not encouraged to make anything out of their lives.  Taxpayers continue to support a government that gives American jobs away to foreigners.  MAGA Presidents daughter is just being honest that American corporations don't hire Americans so don't go into debt for a degree that won't support you.  That only leads to student loans you can't pay because our Government continues to raise the level of foreign worker visa's for college education jobs.

Some of that is true, and I won't argue it with you @Chosen Daughter , but also true, our country has become top heavy wrt college and even trade school... You can do damn well as a tile layer, as an instance, with no training beyond a basic capacity for math and reading, basic business sense, and an apprenticeship under a master for a year or two. After that, with an entrepreneurial spirit, hang out your own shingle and work hard, and you will succeed well enough for a wife, a nice home, and a passel of kids.

Compare that road, where you are paid to learn beyond a generic high school diploma, where you can begin the trade debt free and early (with your own business by twenty-three to twenty-five years)... Compare that to coming out of college with no experience at twenty five or so with a quarter million in debt around your neck, and years of struggle behind the eight-ball waiting for placement, in an industry that, quite likely you are going to have to change out of at some point in your life... Where your investment in knowledge no longer serves you.

I had three major course changes in my life - Think of the waste had I invested years and untold fortune into any of those directions. The first true problem in investing in a very specific future is that shit happens - It always does, and it cannot be accounted for.