John McCain Was the Admiral of the Never Trump Movement

[roamer_1]

When the 'patient' is your child of three years that's one thing.  When they are grown adults with personality disorders...say, not being 'Conservative' enough..or not at all, what is your treatment, 'Doctor'?

Staying home on election day with a big 'Eff You'?   "...not my monkeys, not my circus"?

@DCPatriot
In essence, YES. That is why y'all could hardly drag his fat ass across the finish line against the most reviled opponent possible.

That ain't my fault. That's YOUR (all y'all) fault. If you want that unstoppable Conservative juggernaut to rise up from the choppy seas of politics, the quintessential ingredient is standing upon those Conservative principles

BECAUSE OTHERWISE, THE FACTIONS ARE JUST THAT. if  you step on ONE of their principled things, it doesn't matter how many other things you promote. They'll be gone.

To wit, and I am being honest here: I have a fairly large and well distributed base of friends in the PacNW and Rocky Mountain region, by reason of my activism. TEA Party folks. RTL and R2KBA Rock-ribbed hard right. Not a single one of my friends is a Republican anymore, and not a single one supports this administration.

Understand: That is nearly 200 first tier politically active people - the folks that go out and get the money to happen for campaigns... the folks that make it go from the business side - Not one is for Tumpy or his agenda.

You can be pissed at me for it all you want, it still will not change the equation. If you want me and mine to vote for someone, they must stand upon those principles. ALL OF THEM.

[Axeslinger]

@DCPatriot
In essence, YES. That is why y'all could hardly drag his fat ass across the finish line against the most reviled opponent possible.

That ain't my fault. That's YOUR (all y'all) fault. If you want that unstoppable Conservative juggernaut to rise up from the choppy seas of politics, the quintessential ingredient is standing upon those Conservative principles

BECAUSE OTHERWISE, THE FACTIONS ARE JUST THAT. if  you step on ONE of their principled things, it doesn't matter how many other things you promote. They'll be gone.

To wit, and I am being honest here: I have a fairly large and well distributed base of friends in the PacNW and Rocky Mountain region, by reason of my activism. TEA Party folks. RTL and R2KBA Rock-ribbed hard right. Not a single one of my friends is a Republican anymore, and not a single one supports this administration.

Understand: That is nearly 200 first tier politically active people - the folks that go out and get the money to happen for campaigns... the folks that make it go from the business side - Not one is for Tumpy or his agenda.

You can be pissed at me for it all you want, it still will not change the equation. If you want me and mine to vote for someone, they must stand upon those principles. ALL OF THEM.

[Smokin Joe]

I know it hurts, pumpkin, but "conservatives" are in bed with liberals, socialists, communists in their efforts to derail Donald Trump.  I'd call that to the LEFT of Hugo Chavez.

M'am, that is your distorted perception because you can't see anything but that they aren't groveling before the altar of your favorite fellow.  Pity, that. You seem intelligent. Unfortunately, your hero worship has blinded you to the extent you only see two sides--yours and everyone else's, and because they aren't marching lockstep with you, you can't comprehend that they just might be a mite more Conservative than you are.

Now, I'm fully aware we fight the Communists and fellow travelers with the army we have, but if you idiots would quit with the circular firing squad long enough to let the smoke clear, you would perhaps quit targeting potential allies long enough to win in 2020. Right now, the tariffs are killing farm and construction equipment manufacturers, the rust belt is still rusting away, and you're going to lose some states that just aren't seeing the promise of prosperity in their yards.

Keep it up, and you'll (we'll all) lose.

[Smokin Joe]

Y'all really have no clue what Conservative principles are at all, do you?

The border wall is not a principle, and never has been. Conservatives are unequivocally *for* a border wall, every one, and there is no doubt of that - But it is not a principle thing.

I am beginning to realize why no one will defend Tumpy by and upon Conservative principles... Y'all have no idea what they are, or what it even means.

If they had a clue, they might have left the station without the train. That tone deafness is going to put a Communist in office in 2020, and then they'll try to blame us.

[roamer_1]

If they had a clue, they might have left the station without the train. That tone deafness is going to put a Communist in office in 2020, and then they'll try to blame us.

I don't know how else to say it... Folks just keep trying to make me step off them principles when I been telling em a long time gone that ain't ever gonna happen. Way past 'oh hell no'!

The only thing that is ever gonna make any sense at all is when they can defend him on those very principles - Which ain't gonna happen, because they ain't got a one to stand upon...

For instance, JUST on spending, it ain't ever gonna happen. Must I go on?

[Absalom]

Principles without a lick of common sense is a death sentence in politics.  If you can’t understand where the American people are and reach them on their turf, stay out of politics.  And this goes double for “principled conservatives”.   Donald Trump is introducing a new generation to the principles of conservatism, and he’s doing so in their language; in their living rooms.  He is reawakening a sense of American pride—in the nation, its values, its unlimited potential, independence to carve out one’s own life, and freedom from government interference that have been dormant for far too long.
   
You call this “populism” and despise it.  Yet, it is downhome populism that gets up at the crack of dawn every day to earn a living, pays the taxes, sends their sons and daughters to fight wars and prays for a nation worth preserving.  What they want in return is freedom from an overbearing government, a constitution to mean what it says, a nation state with its sovereignty secure, an uncluttered path to earning whatever wealth they desire, and room for God—even in the public square.

Yet principled conservatives recoil at this, and the people who live it.  You make sense only to yourselves.

I am losing respect for those who virtue signal conservative “principles”.  It’s turning out it’s not really about principles, but the messenger.  If you truly wanted to bring conservatism to life in the 21st Century you’d be on the Trump train, as repugnant as the accommodations may be to you.

----------------------------------
In this world and in our lives, what endures are ideas and principles, as all else
withers and dies.
Russell Kirk, a colleague of Bill Buckley as well as a disciple of Edmund Burke,
defined Conservatism as a body of enduring principles derived from the Natural Law;
involving the attitudes, behaviors and impulses of human nature, among them the
concept that the family unit is the foundation of culture/society for all eternity.
Conservatism is independent of economics, religion and most critically, that
obsessive hobby horse of schmucks; politics. 

[sneakypete]

@DCPatriot
In essence, YES. That is why y'all could hardly drag his fat ass across the finish line against the most reviled opponent possible.

That ain't my fault. That's YOUR (all y'all) fault. If you want that unstoppable Conservative juggernaut to rise up from the choppy seas of politics, the quintessential ingredient is standing upon those Conservative principles

BECAUSE OTHERWISE, THE FACTIONS ARE JUST THAT. if  you step on ONE of their principled things, it doesn't matter how many other things you promote. They'll be gone.

To wit, and I am being honest here: I have a fairly large and well distributed base of friends in the PacNW and Rocky Mountain region, by reason of my activism. TEA Party folks. RTL and R2KBA Rock-ribbed hard right. Not a single one of my friends is a Republican anymore, and not a single one supports this administration.

Understand: That is nearly 200 first tier politically active people - the folks that go out and get the money to happen for campaigns... the folks that make it go from the business side - Not one is for Tumpy or his agenda.

You can be pissed at me for it all you want, it still will not change the equation. If you want me and mine to vote for someone, they must stand upon those principles. ALL OF THEM.

@roamer_1

Good to see you and your Bible-thumping friends coming out of the closet with your support of Bubbette! or some other Dim in 2020.

[sneakypete]

M'am, that is your distorted perception because you can't see anything but that they aren't groveling before the altar of your favorite fellow.  Pity, that. You seem intelligent. Unfortunately, your hero worship has blinded you to the extent you only see two sides--yours and everyone else's, and because they aren't marching lockstep with you, you can't comprehend that they just might be a mite more Conservative than you are.

@Smokin Joe

You  and your cohorts wouldn't know "conservative" if it bit you on the ass. You confuse group thought with actual thinking. You go to your churches and only talk to other people who share your own narrow POV,and then slap each other on the backs as you congratulate each other on the "lives we are saving" by being True Believers in the worlds oldest left-wing communist cult. In reality,all you are saving are your own guilty delusions.
Now, I'm fully aware we fight the Communists and fellow travelers with the army we have, but if you idiots would quit with the circular firing squad long enough to let the smoke clear, you would perhaps quit targeting potential allies long enough to win in 2020. Right now, the tariffs are killing farm and construction equipment manufacturers, the rust belt is still rusting away, and you're going to lose some states that just aren't seeing the promise of prosperity in their yards.

Keep it up, and you'll (we'll all) lose.

No,cultists like you will lose,and the truth is you are a tiny minority barely holding on to any power at all purely because of the mind-conditioning of centuries from a belief system based on fear.

[sneakypete]

Principles without a lick of common sense is a death sentence in politics.  If you can’t understand where the American people are and reach them on their turf, stay out of politics.  And this goes double for “principled conservatives”.   Donald Trump is introducing a new generation to the principles of conservatism, and he’s doing so in their language; in their living rooms.  He is reawakening a sense of American pride—in the nation, its values, its unlimited potential, independence to carve out one’s own life, and freedom from government interference that have been dormant for far too long.
   
You call this “populism” and despise it.  Yet, it is downhome populism that gets up at the crack of dawn every day to earn a living, pays the taxes, sends their sons and daughters to fight wars and prays for a nation worth preserving.  What they want in return is freedom from an overbearing government, a constitution to mean what it says, a nation state with its sovereignty secure, an uncluttered path to earning whatever wealth they desire, and room for God—even in the public square.

Yet principled conservatives recoil at this, and the people who live it.  You make sense only to yourselves.

I am losing respect for those who virtue signal conservative “principles”.  It’s turning out it’s not really about principles, but the messenger.  If you truly wanted to bring conservatism to life in the 21st Century you’d be on the Trump train, as repugnant as the accommodations may be to you.

@Right_in_Virginia

And there you  have it.

[sneakypete]

I know it hurts, pumpkin, but "conservatives" are in bed with liberals, socialists, communists in their efforts to derail Donald Trump.  I'd call that to the LEFT of Hugo Chavez.

@Right_in_Virginia

IMHO,they deny it because they just can't bring themselves to face the truth. They have power in the old Bob Dolt system of government,and are more afraid of losing power and influence by becoming irrelevant than they are of seeing the country collapse and become a cog in New World Order,Inc.

Trump is not a Party Person,and their minds need dogma to function because without it,who knows where they stand in the pecking order?

BTW,why is NOBODY talking about the insanity of the 15 dollar an hour minimum wage and what it will do to our economy and eventually,our way of life?

Why isn't THAT more important than bitching about Trump breaking in line and being elected as president without kissing any rings?

[Right_in_Virginia]

@DCPatriot
In essence, YES. That is why y'all could hardly drag his fat ass across the finish line against the most reviled opponent possible.

That ain't my fault. That's YOUR (all y'all) fault. If you want that unstoppable Conservative juggernaut to rise up from the choppy seas of politics, 

They ARE rising.  Stop ignoring it because this rise doesn't match the picture in your head.  Seriously, you're missing one of the greatest revivals of Americanism in history.  And, conservatism IS Americanism.  I'd advise you to stop thinking conservative principles are ereatheal.    You're becoming a laughing stock to those who live in the real world.

[aligncare]

Principles without a lick of common sense is a death sentence in politics.  If you can’t understand where the American people are and reach them on their turf, stay out of politics.  And this goes double for “principled conservatives”.   Donald Trump is introducing a new generation to the principles of conservatism, and he’s doing so in their language; in their living rooms.  He is reawakening a sense of American pride—in the nation, its values, its unlimited potential, independence to carve out one’s own life, and freedom from government interference that have been dormant for far too long.
   
You call this “populism” and despise it.  Yet, it is downhome populism that gets up at the crack of dawn every day to earn a living, pays the taxes, sends their sons and daughters to fight wars and prays for a nation worth preserving.  What they want in return is freedom from an overbearing government, a constitution to mean what it says, a nation state with its sovereignty secure, an uncluttered path to earning whatever wealth they desire, and room for God—even in the public square.

Yet principled conservatives recoil at this, and the people who live it.  You make sense only to yourselves.

I am losing respect for those who virtue signal conservative “principles”.  It’s turning out it’s not really about principles, but the messenger.  If you truly wanted to bring conservatism to life in the 21st Century you’d be on the Trump train, as repugnant as the accommodations may be to you.

Well said. I share your frustration.

The problem with principled conservatives is that they think that being right is all it takes and that if they just hold tight to their principals they will through personal example have every other American believing as they do.

Note to my principled conservative friends. Have you seen today’s campus culture? The last two or three generations of college graduates and college dropouts could care less about conservative principles. And they are the future of America unless something big happens to reverse this trend.

You think your principled conservatism will reach them after they’ve been thoroughly indoctrinated? The left’s forces are coalescing around political action, while principled conservatives are on the sidelines whispering among themselves hoping they won’t be the next target of the mob.

This is war, and you don’t win political wars with principles. Where you’re principles are under political attack, you win through ruthless political action. Donald Trump, like him personally or not, is the first general in what should be a long line of America-first conservatives fighting for individual liberty, against the collectivist Left.

[Smokin Joe]

@Smokin Joe

You  and your cohorts wouldn't know "conservative" if it bit you on the ass. You confuse group thought with actual thinking. You go to your churches and only talk to other people who share your own narrow POV,and then slap each other on the backs as you congratulate each other on the "lives we are saving" by being True Believers in the worlds oldest left-wing communist cult. In reality,all you are saving are your own guilty delusions.

Well, pete I haven't been in a Church for years, except for a funeral. No backslapping there. SO , AGAIN you trumpanzzes are hooting up the wrong tree.  I'm pretty much a heretic because I don't see some South American Socialist babbling about Global Warming as God's ultimate representative on Earth.
There is a book of scripture, and it pretty much says what needs to be said.

You're right about one thing about my narrow point of view, though, We have this dusty thing called a Constitution. Most folks haven't read it, ever, and many more just couldn't wrap their pointy heads around what it said. Others only follow it when it is convenient, and twist it when they can for fun and profit. Overall, it hasn't been followed in years, and the few of us who demand that are a dying breed. The rest have sold out for Trump change or free sh*t: to quote the book you detest "sold their birthright for a mass of pottage" Enjoy your free lunch.

Now, I'm fully aware we fight the Communists and fellow travelers with the army we have, but if you idiots would quit with the circular firing squad long enough to let the smoke clear, you would perhaps quit targeting potential allies long enough to win in 2020. Right now, the tariffs are killing farm and construction equipment manufacturers, the rust belt is still rusting away, and you're going to lose some states that just aren't seeing the promise of prosperity in their yards.

No,cultists like you will lose,and the truth is you are a tiny minority barely holding on to any power at all purely because of the mind-conditioning of centuries from a belief system based on fear.

Cultists? Like the bunch who pledged their lives, fortunes, and sacred honor? One of my relatives signed that document. So, DILLIGAF what you people think? You are selling pigs ears and telling everyone they're silk purses.

Keep denying reality and we'll all be stuck with a Democrat in 2020, and from what they have in the running so far, that should just about finish off this "Grand Experiment" (Sorry Mr. Franklin, they pissed it away.)

Interesting that despite the many exchanges we've had here, you want to ignore that and paint as a Cultist and Communist because I won't give one guy a pass on some conspicuous promises. .

I think I'll keep praying for you just to piss you off.

[Smokin Joe]

Well said. I share your frustration.

The problem with principled conservatives is that they think that being right is all it takes and that if they just hold tight to their principals they will through personal example have every other American believing as they do.

Note to my principled conservative friends. Have you seen today’s campus culture? The last two or three generations of college graduates and college dropouts could care less about conservative principles. And they are the future of America unless something big happens to reverse this trend.

Not much of a future. AINO.

You think your principled conservatism will reach them after they’ve been thoroughly indoctrinated? The left’s forces are coalescing around political action, while principled conservatives are on the sidelines whispering among themselves hoping they won’t be the next target of the mob.

No, but it might after they have thoroughly tried all the things that really don't work and made a mess of themselves, their lives, their kids, and this country. If no one shines a light on the way to go, they'll stay in the dark.

This is war, and you don’t win political wars with principles. Where you’re principles are under political attack, you win through ruthless political action. Donald Trump, like him personally or not, is the first general in what should be a long line of America-first conservatives fighting for individual liberty, against the collectivist Left.

You win a political war FOR principles, otherwise, you're just fighting over the scraps with the other scavengers.
When everything is on the table, there are no principles, just a swap meet.

[sneakypete]

Cultists? Like the bunch who pledged their lives, fortunes, and sacred honor? One of my relatives signed that document. So, DILLIGAF what you people think? You are selling pigs ears and telling everyone they're silk purses.

@Smokin Joe

Get over yourself. Just because some distant ancestor of yours signed a paper,that doesn't give YOU an nobility,any more than it gives your neighbors a right to hang you because another distant relative was a horse thief.

Keep denying reality and we'll all be stuck with a Democrat in 2020, and from what they have in the running so far, that should just about finish off this "Grand Experiment" (Sorry Mr. Franklin, they pissed it away.)

HERE is some reality for you,Bubba. Trump is the closest thing to an actual conservative we have had in the WH since Reagan.

Interesting that despite the many exchanges we've had here, you want to ignore that and paint as a Cultist and Communist because I won't give one guy a pass on some conspicuous promises. .

WAAAAH! WAAAAH! WAAAAH! I can't get everything I want,so I am going to take my ball and go home! The ancestor you have that you brag about would be ashamed of you for being a quitter.

I think I'll keep praying for you just to piss you off.

But....but....but,you ain't even religious according to you,so how is that possible?

[Smokin Joe]

@Smokin Joe

Get over yourself. Just because some distant ancestor of yours signed a paper,that doesn't give YOU an nobility,any more than it gives your neighbors a right to hang you because another distant relative was a horse thief.

Actually, they gave up title to start this country. No more Manor Lord. That;s how much they believed in those principles.

So, no, it doesn't give me any nobility at all, but it did establish something in our family--a standard to live up to.

He could have lost it ALL, because his name was on that document, (like about half of the guys who signed it), all knowing full well what was at stake. Losing title under English law was guaranteed.

HERE is some reality for you, Bubba. Trump is the closest thing to an actual conservative we have had in the WH since Reagan.

Why is that, pete? Because people stuck to their guns and principles or because they caved?

Or is it just because they got shouted down (again) by the "be practical" 'He's electable' crowd? (like with Romney or McCain, or even Bob Dole)

I guess the only thing we really learn from history is that damned few 'get it', so they lather, rinse, and repeat the mistakes of the past.  We were lucky to have Reagan. Now we're getting back to "Read my lips". The tarrifs are hurting the industrial heartland (what's left of it), and that won't go away with more bad policy, but the Unions will d@mnsure play that up.  Read the writing on that wall if you want your boy back in next go-round. The Dems have two sets of voters--the ones who never had a job and don't want one, and the ones sitting around the union hall. Some of the latter group likely crossed over for Trump last time, sick of being obamma'ed out of work. If they think they are being Trumped out of work, that won't play well.

WAAAAH! WAAAAH! WAAAAH! I can't get everything I want,so I am going to take my ball and go home! The ancestor you have that you brag about would be ashamed of you for being a quitter.

Quit sniveling, pete.  It's okay....I'm still here, aren't I? But continue to ignore what's going to cost those electoral votes in the next go-round, and I won't hesitate to rub noses in the mess on the floor when this is all done.
When the whinging starts in December 2020 I will personally deliver a swift kick in the ass to any Republican who whines about it.

But....but....but,you ain't even religious according to you,so how is that possible?

I don't have to go to church to pray. If we did, there'd be lines out the door and around the block, or a lot less praying going on. A lot of folks who pray wait until they are the one in deep sh*t, and there might not be time to rush off to church to get a word in...You think The Almighty doesn't hear them because they aren't in the 'right building'? 
After all, we were assured that He is everywhere, which can be really handy in a pinch.

In this case, I can piss you off any time, any where , even though I genuinely give a sh*t.

[roamer_1]

@roamer_1

Good to see you and your Bible-thumping friends coming out of the closet with your support of Bubbette! or some other Dim in 2020.

Nah, Pete. There's nothing I want from the Democrats. Same damn thing as Republicans. A pox on all of em.

[roamer_1]

They ARE rising.  Stop ignoring it because this rise doesn't match the picture in your head.  Seriously, you're missing one of the greatest revivals of Americanism in history.  And, conservatism IS Americanism.  I'd advise you to stop thinking conservative principles are ereatheal.    You're becoming a laughing stock to those who live in the real world.

I am not the one who considers them ethereal, @Right_in_Virginia , I am the one saying those principles are defined and specific. And I know that your movement does not support a single one of them.

[Smokin Joe]

The sad part is that you point out weaknesses, and instead of people saying "thanks" and addressing those, you get attacked because you mentioned them. Kinda like folks being found hanging from lamp posts in the rubble of a European capital in the mid 40s with signs around their neck that said "defeatist"....The outcome wasn't changed one whit.

Shooting the messenger is a longstanding tradition with some folks.

[roamer_1]

The sad part is that you point out weaknesses, and instead of people saying "thanks" and addressing those, you get attacked because you mentioned them. Kinda like folks being found hanging from lamp posts in the rubble of a European capital in the mid 40s with signs around their neck that said "defeatist"....The outcome wasn't changed one whit.

Shooting the messenger is a longstanding tradition with some folks.

I will reiterate my challenge once again... What are we getting out of the Tump administration that we actually get to keep?

So far, only more enormous debt.
That makes this administration at best, a waste of time.

[DCPatriot]

I will reiterate my challenge once again... What are we getting out of the Tump administration that we actually get to keep?

So far, only more enormous debt.
That makes this administration at best, a waste of time.

Everyday the Fascists are kept at bay and in the minority (where it counts), is NOT a waste of time.

Because without Donald Trump, we'd be living in a horror movie right now.

[aligncare]

Everyday the Fascists are kept at bay and in the minority (where it counts), is NOT a waste of time.

Because without Donald Trump, we'd be living in a horror movie right now.

No, no, no. You’ve got that all wrong. Donald Trump IS the horror show. Haven’t you been paying attention to the news?

[roamer_1]

Everyday the Fascists are kept at bay and in the minority (where it counts), is NOT a waste of time.

Because without Donald Trump, we'd be living in a horror movie right now.

@DCPatriot
Bullshit. Nothing has changed. Fleeting emotional moments, that's all. Candy thrown by the clown at the front of the parade. Even if you do finally get something substantial - The wall, lets say - His complicity in another what, $5T in debt has already done more damage than anything he could do to balance it.

That's the problem with calling a NYC liberal a conservative.

[sneakypete]

 

Why is that, pete? Because people stuck to their guns and principles or because they caved?

@Smokin Joe

I can guarantee you he didn't stick to his "principles". He compromised with others to build a force for change. Don't let that disturb your little fantasy world,though.


 

The tarrifs are hurting the industrial heartland (what's left of it), and that won't go away with more bad policy, but the Unions will d@mnsure play that up.  Read the writing on that wall if you want your boy back in next go-round.

Just wait until you see what happens to the economy when 15 bucks per hour for minimum wage tips the scales. There won't be a job for anyone's children unless they are black or brown and can start screaming about discrimination. How many hood rats,or even bright and productive high school seniors are qualified to earn that much per hour? Odd how I don't hear any of the people you support complaining about this.

The Dems have two sets of voters--the ones who never had a job and don't want one, and the ones sitting around the union hall. Some of the latter group likely crossed over for Trump last time, sick of being obamma'ed out of work. If they think they are being Trumped out of work, that won't play well. Quit sniveling, pete.  It's okay....I'm still here, aren't I? But continue to ignore what's going to cost those electoral votes in the next go-round, and I won't hesitate to rub noses in the mess on the floor when this is all done.

Of course you won't. It what you live for and pray for day and night. Your worse nightmare come true is Trump getting re-elected. You would rather have Bubbette! than Trump.

When the whinging starts in December 2020 I will personally deliver a swift kick in the ass to any Republican who whines about it.I don't have to go to church to pray. If we did, there'd be lines out the door and around the block, or a lot less praying going on. A lot of folks who pray wait until they are the one in deep sh*t, and there might not be time to rush off to church to get a word in...You think The Almighty doesn't hear them because they aren't in the 'right building'? 
After all, we were assured that He is everywhere, which can be really handy in a pinch.

In this case, I can piss you off any time, any where , even though I genuinely give a sh*t.

You are just not important enough for me to care either way. You have your fantasy world,and I want no part of it.

[sneakypete]

Nah, Pete. There's nothing I want from the Democrats. Same damn thing as Republicans. A pox on all of em.

@roamer_1

I can agree with that. A dim is a professional thief and liar that I trust slightly less than an alleged Republican.

Which is one reason I decided to vote for Trump.