Deer Park petrochemical fire expected to last 'throughout the night'

[Elderberry]

Deer Park plant fire may have been sparked by overheated storage tank, worker says

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/Deer-Park-plant-fire-may-have-been-sparked-by-13701572.php

A worker who said he was at the Intercontinental Terminals Co. when the fire first erupted Sunday morning first noticed smoke rising from a chemical storage tank.

He left the terminal within a half-hour and by then, "It was roaring up."

The man, who asked not to be identified for fear of repercussions, said speculation among his colleagues is that parts of the tank may have overheated. The tanks overheat from time to time, he said, but normally have a safety mechanism that can shut them off.

For whatever reason, that safety mechanism may not have been enough to prevent the fire, he said.

"Everyone thinks a tank overheated," he said.

more at link.

[thackney]

[catfish1957]

Deer Park plant fire may have been sparked by overheated storage tank, worker says

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/Deer-Park-plant-fire-may-have-been-sparked-by-13701572.php

Wha........?

A half hour?  Why wasn't CIMA alarm sounded at the first onset of smoke?  This just doesn't sound right.  Any remotely competent operator or maintenance technican would know the basics of emergency reporting.

[thackney]

Wha........?

A half hour?  Why wasn't CIMA alarm sounded at the first onset of smoke?  This just doesn't sound right.  Any remotely competent operator or maintenance technican would know the basics of emergency reporting.

I don't see a description in the article that says it was not immediately reported.

[Bigun]

I don't see a description in the article that says it was not immediately reported.

I don't see anything that says it was either, and leaving within a half hour of seeing the smoke tells me that it likely wasn't reported.  Guy just wanted to go home. No wonder he doesn't want to be identified.

[thackney]

I don't see anything that says it was either, and leaving within a half hour of seeing the smoke tells me that it likely wasn't reported.  Guy just wanted to go home. No wonder he doesn't want to be identified.

I think that is a huge leap to believe it wasn't reported.

[thackney]

I think that is a huge leap to believe it wasn't reported.

Let me add to that.  If he wasn't involved in operations or fire fighting, he was likely told to evacuate.

If we had a fire at our plant in the terminal that wasn't put out quickly, I would hope the majority of us would be sent home right away.  If you are not trained, you are only in the way.  Company liability would be reason to get everyone else away.

[Bigun]

I think that is a huge leap to believe it wasn't reported.

Yep!  But the guy anonymously running his mouth about what he saw had reported it he wouldn't be anonymous and he wouldn't have left when he did either.

[thackney]

Yep!  But my instincts tell me that a guy anonymously running his mouth about what he saw would mention reporting it.

Heck, it may be that he didn't see it until half an hour after it was already reported.  This could be a mower operator running his mouth.  Someone completely uninvolved in anything but cutting grass.

[Bigun]

Heck, it may be that he didn't see it until half an hour after it was already reported.  This could be a mower operator running his mouth.  Someone completely uninvolved in anything but cutting grass.

All true!  But my gut says otherwise. We will probably never know for sure.

[thackney]

All true!  But my gut says otherwise. We will probably never know for sure.

My gut says no way in the world a fire burns at a tank farm for half an hour and no one reports it.  Smoke is going to get immediate attention.  The temperature sensors at the tank probably already had the alarms going off before there was even smoke.

edit:

I believe we will know what happened, but it will likely take about 2 years for the Chemical Safety Board to release their full report.  For example:

Loss of Containment, Fires, and Explosions at
Enterprise Products Midstream Gas Plant
Pascagoula, Mississippi | Incident Date: June 27, 2016 | No. 2016-02-I-MS
https://www.csb.gov/assets/1/6/final_case_study_-_enterprise.pdf
Published: February 13, 2019

[Bigun]

My gut says no way in the world a fire burns at a tank farm for half an hour and no one reports it.  Smoke is going to get immediate attention.  The temperature sensors at the tank probably already had the alarms going off before there was even smoke.

All of that definitely SHOULD have happened but I have personal experience with an incident that killed 17 people some years ago where NONE of the things that were supposed to happen actually did happen.

[catfish1957]

I don't see a description in the article that says it was not immediately reported.

Yeah, I possibly misread or misinterpreted.  He left within an hour probably after mutual aid took control of the scene.

[Bigun]

Yeah, I misread.  He left within an hour probably after mutual aid took control of the scene.

Clipped directly from the article:

He left the terminal within a half-hour and by then, "It was roaring up."

[catfish1957]

Let me add to that.  If he wasn't involved in operations or fire fighting, he was likely told to evacuate.

If we had a fire at our plant in the terminal that wasn't put out quickly, I would hope the majority of us would be sent home right away.  If you are not trained, you are only in the way.  Company liability would be reason to get everyone else away.

In ECMA's CIMA system, facilty relinquishes the emergency area to an IC (Incident Commander, and in this case it's fire chief) Comoany reps man a EOC Emergency Operations Center always and typically relocated out of harms way.  EOC handles external affairs and is a conduit for resources and external communicatuons.  As far as your comment, once Company relinquishes emergency site, opeartor and more often Operations Supervisors remain outside scene as resouces, and technical advisors of what the IC is dealing with.  IF...this was the operator, my hunch is remained on site, or was told to go home for some unknown reason

[catfish1957]

Clipped directly from the article:

Can read that 2 or 3 different ways, which was my original thoughts (incompetence) This time, I am going to let the optimist in me try to think the best of folks.

[Bigun]

Can read that 2 or 3 different ways, which was my original thoughts (incompetence) This time, I am going to let the optimist in me try to think the best of folks.

I know how I read it but I sincerely hope you and Thackney are right and I'm wrong.

[Bigun]

My gut says no way in the world a fire burns at a tank farm for half an hour and no one reports it.  Smoke is going to get immediate attention.  The temperature sensors at the tank probably already had the alarms going off before there was even smoke.

edit:

I believe we will know what happened, but it will likely take about 2 years for the Chemical Safety Board to release their full report.  For example:

Loss of Containment, Fires, and Explosions at
Enterprise Products Midstream Gas Plant
Pascagoula, Mississippi | Incident Date: June 27, 2016 | No. 2016-02-I-MS
https://www.csb.gov/assets/1/6/final_case_study_-_enterprise.pdf
Published: February 13, 2019

I was called in shortly after an explosion and fire (waste water tank exploded) killed seventeen people some years ago and will tell you that the report that was finally issued was a complete and total whitewash of what had actually happened. The chain of events leading to the disaster started more than ten years prior to the incident and, if the truth had been reported, Arco Chemical would have been sued out of existence.

[catfish1957]

I know how I read it but I sincerely hope you and Thackney are right and I'm wrong.

One thing just struck me wrong too.  It was intially reported that the tanks in question were gasoline and naptha.  These are tanks stored at ambient conditions and distributed the same.  Why would have any of these tanks overheated?  Only heavy fraction petroleum products like asphalts, say C40+ products  or so require heating to maintain fluidity.

This doensn't make sense.

[catfish1957]

I was called in shortly after an explosion and fire (waste water tank exploded) killed seventeen people some years ago and will tell you that the report that was finally issued was a complete and total whitewash of what had actually happened. The chain of events leading to the disaster started more than ten years prior to the incident and, if the truth had been reported, Arco Chemical would have been sued out of existence.

Sorry, you had to go through that.  Your earlier comments led me to believe it was either that incident or the one with AMACO in Texas City.

[Bigun]

One thing just struck me wrong too.  It was intially reported that the tanks in question were gasoline and naptha.  These are tanks stored at ambient conditions and distributed the same.  Why would have any of these tanks overheated?  Only heavy fraction petroleum products like asphalts, say C40+ products  or so require heating to maintain fluidity.

This doensn't make sense.

Absolutely correct! And if the fire suppression systems, assuming they had them, had worked as they should this would have been a minor incident that would likely have never seen a news report.

[Bigun]

Sorry, you had to go through that.  Your earlier comments led me to believe it was either that incident or the one with AMACO in Texas City.

Thank you!  What happened there still get's my dander up even after all these years.

[catfish1957]

Absolutely correct! And if the fire suppression systems, assuming they had them, had worked as they should this would have been a minor incident that would likely have never seen a news report.

Yep.  Speculation on my part would be a pump overheated so badly that it caught fire and spread with product, and to the point either it comprimised the tank or a check valve failed.  Which OTOH would be very strange since most of these have double check configuation.

[catfish1957]

Thank you!  What happened there still get's my dander up even after all these years.

I can imagine.  In my 35 years in industry I saw some pretty scary things, but nothing at that level of disaster.

[Bigun]

I can imagine.  In my 35 years in industry I saw some pretty scary things, but nothing at that level of disaster.

Unfortunately for me, that was not the first such thing I was close to. I was living in Ras Tanura Saudia Arabia when an explosion and fire in the refinery there killed several people. One of which was a young engineer who had previously worked for me in the Gas Operations Division.