Author Topic: Trump outlines a significant Social Security cut in his 2020 budget  (Read 1438 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Snarknado

  • Anti
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,542
Re: Trump outlines a significant Social Security cut in his 2020 budget
« Reply #25 on: March 15, 2019, 02:43:41 pm »
Huh?    If you buy an insurance policy and your beneficiary receives the proceeds, how is that unfair?   

Would you prefer that SS cut benefits for beneficiaries?    As with any traditional pension,  it is quite common for a worker to pay in for 40 years, and then die before he's old enough to collect, or less than a year after he starts to collect.   What's unfair to allow his widow to receive payments in that situation?

A bit less deliberate misinformation about Social Security would be appreciated.

I'm referring to the spousal benefit, not survivorship. Maybe you're not aware that a couple can receive a second benefit even if only 1 paid in?

And I didn't say that I thought it was unfair, I simply stated the well-known fact that many people DO think it's unfair...
---
Everything I need to know I learned in GTA

Offline GtHawk

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,628
  • Gender: Male
  • I don't believe in Trump anymore, he's an illusion
Re: Trump outlines a significant Social Security cut in his 2020 budget
« Reply #26 on: March 15, 2019, 05:28:12 pm »
I'm not suggesting that illegals be permitted to collect SS benefits.   But the reality is that they (and their employers) pay billions into the system, and indirectly subsidize your and my benefits.   Ironic, no?
And they take out more in government benefits not do to actual legal Americans so in essence putting money into one pocket while stealing it out of another. You are also cherry picking in your argument. Fact is illegals are net takers..............period!

Offline XenaLee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15,398
  • Gender: Female
  • Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum
Re: Trump outlines a significant Social Security cut in his 2020 budget
« Reply #27 on: March 15, 2019, 05:30:45 pm »
I'm not suggesting that illegals be permitted to collect SS benefits.   But the reality is that they (and their employers) pay billions into the system, and indirectly subsidize your and my benefits.   Ironic, no?

Billions?  I'm gonna need a link to the statistics on that one, Jazz.

Fact is... if they were paying into the system as they should be.... as LEGAL citizens, they still probably wouldn't be paying back as much as they and their entire families are 'drawing' from the system.  Facts hurt.
No quarter given to the enemy within...ever.

You can vote your way into socialism, but you have to shoot your way out of it.

Offline libertybele

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 56,522
  • Gender: Female
Re: Trump outlines a significant Social Security cut in his 2020 budget
« Reply #28 on: March 15, 2019, 05:40:32 pm »
I'm referring to the spousal benefit, not survivorship. Maybe you're not aware that a couple can receive a second benefit even if only 1 paid in?

And I didn't say that I thought it was unfair, I simply stated the well-known fact that many people DO think it's unfair...

I am collecting a spousal benefit.  I paid into social security and am collecting my social security along with a spousal benefit.  The spousal benefit is very minimal.  I might be able to buy a tank of gas with it and we might be able to go for an ice cream cone somewhere once a month.  That's about it folks.
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline libertybele

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 56,522
  • Gender: Female
Re: Trump outlines a significant Social Security cut in his 2020 budget
« Reply #29 on: March 15, 2019, 05:57:23 pm »
LOL! At the rate this sh*t is going, by the time I can collect, there won't be any.

I hear what you are saying.  I applied for SS a few years early and so far I am glad that I did.  Age of benefits just got extended out as well as the number of work credits needed increased -- both can reduce benefits. The only way that I would have started to actually come out ahead was waiting till I was 69 or 70 and health was a consideration for me as well. Like you said ... what if at that time when one applies for benefits the age of eligibility and work credits needed keeps increasing and/or there's nothing left?

You've paid into it SS all your life ... you need to be able to receive some of that money. It is NOT an entitlement IMHO, it is something that you have paid into. 
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline libertybele

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 56,522
  • Gender: Female
Re: Trump outlines a significant Social Security cut in his 2020 budget
« Reply #30 on: March 15, 2019, 06:00:20 pm »
I'm referring to the spousal benefit, not survivorship. Maybe you're not aware that a couple can receive a second benefit even if only 1 paid in?

And I didn't say that I thought it was unfair, I simply stated the well-known fact that many people DO think it's unfair...

What perhaps some don't realize is that survivors benefits depend on the age of the spouse at the time of death of the other spouse.  If the surviving spouse is not of full retirement age, the survivors benefits are reduced accordingly.  The only way to receive full benefits is to wait till one is of full retirement age, then apply for survivors benefits.
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline Snarknado

  • Anti
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,542
Re: Trump outlines a significant Social Security cut in his 2020 budget
« Reply #31 on: March 15, 2019, 06:34:29 pm »
I am collecting a spousal benefit.  I paid into social security and am collecting my social security along with a spousal benefit.  The spousal benefit is very minimal.  I might be able to buy a tank of gas with it and we might be able to go for an ice cream cone somewhere once a month.  That's about it folks.

But your benefit is in addition to your regular SS. People who don't have their own benefit can get up to half their spouse's full benefit, close to $1400/mo. or more - I haven't looked at the figures recently.

It's worth noting that the spouse also gets Medicare without ever paying in a dime.

These provisions were implemented when families were primarily one-earner, there were many workers per beneficiary, and joint life expectancy wasn't very high (once the first spouse dies the extra benefits go away). The situation is much different today, which is why many feel it's an area that should be on the table as part of any effort to "save" SS...
---
Everything I need to know I learned in GTA

Offline libertybele

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 56,522
  • Gender: Female
Re: Trump outlines a significant Social Security cut in his 2020 budget
« Reply #32 on: March 15, 2019, 07:38:15 pm »
But your benefit is in addition to your regular SS. People who don't have their own benefit can get up to half their spouse's full benefit, close to $1400/mo. or more - I haven't looked at the figures recently.

It's worth noting that the spouse also gets Medicare without ever paying in a dime.

These provisions were implemented when families were primarily one-earner, there were many workers per beneficiary, and joint life expectancy wasn't very high (once the first spouse dies the extra benefits go away). The situation is much different today, which is why many feel it's an area that should be on the table as part of any effort to "save" SS...


Medicare is mandated at 65, regardless whether or not you have private insurance. Medicare is NOT free.  You still have to pay medicare premiums, and you need to have some sort of supplemental insurance. Your private insurance becomes secondary and that scenario is the doing of the feds.

There were some changes made for the beginning of this year. Full retirement age for those born in 1960 and after is 67 ... anyone born after 1970 will more than likely have a full retirement age of 69 or maybe even 70. Work credits have increased for that group as well in order to qualify. Early retirement age is still 62, but with the extension now of full retirement age, early retirement benefits have further been reduced and work credits have been increased in order to qualify. 

They in essence have already made some cuts to social security, people just don't realize what has been done.
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline Snarknado

  • Anti
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,542
Re: Trump outlines a significant Social Security cut in his 2020 budget
« Reply #33 on: March 15, 2019, 08:34:43 pm »

Medicare is mandated at 65, regardless whether or not you have private insurance. Medicare is NOT free.  You still have to pay medicare premiums, and you need to have some sort of supplemental insurance. Your private insurance becomes secondary and that scenario is the doing of the feds.

There were some changes made for the beginning of this year. Full retirement age for those born in 1960 and after is 67 ... anyone born after 1970 will more than likely have a full retirement age of 69 or maybe even 70. Work credits have increased for that group as well in order to qualify. Early retirement age is still 62, but with the extension now of full retirement age, early retirement benefits have further been reduced and work credits have been increased in order to qualify. 

They in essence have already made some cuts to social security, people just don't realize what has been done.

OK, to be more precise, the spouse gets premium-free part A. Anyone can get part A, but it's only premium-free if you or your spouse paid in for 10 years. Part B (and D) are optional, though there are penalties if you decline it but later change your mind. There's no penalty for skipping supplemental insurance, it just means you have to pay the 20% co-pays. People in good health can skip it until their co-pays rise enough to make it a cost-effective investment.

So I should have said "It's worth noting that the spouse also gets Medicare Part A premium-free without ever paying in a dime."

The retirement age bumps are not new, they were part of the Reagan "fix" that raised taxes and gave Congress an extra $3T to spend on pet projects in the guise of a "SS Trust Fund".

I wasn't aware that work credits have been increased beyond 40, but that's actually a pretty good idea, and it wouldn't in any way reduce the benefits for those who qualify. Edit> In fact the low requirement of 40 encourages abuse by foreign workers. They can pay in the max for 10 years then go back to India and eventually collect a very generous benefit thanks to SS's front-loaded benefit formula. There are offsets if they work under another retirement system, but you have to wonder how thoroughly those claims get vetted...
« Last Edit: March 16, 2019, 12:39:02 am by Snarknado »
---
Everything I need to know I learned in GTA

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,746
Re: Trump outlines a significant Social Security cut in his 2020 budget
« Reply #34 on: March 15, 2019, 09:51:16 pm »
I don't need your "education".  That's because you're being deliberately dishonest.   

Again - illegals (and their employers) pay into the system but are ineligible to collect.  To the tune of $13 billion per year, it appears,  illegals help pay for your benefits.

 That's a completely different situation than your ignorant comparison to a widow's benefit (which is, of course, derivative of the benefit the worker earned by paying into the system, just as it with a private pension.)
He reads but cannot see.

One does not have to be a widow to collect SS benefits like you say.  One does not have to a pay a dime into the system to collect.

And as far as your far-fetched attempt to shame all of us for an illegal paying into the system on our behalf, that is a ridiculous stretch.

Not only should they not even be here anyway, but that wage they are making is being stolen from a real American who does not have that job.

So please spare us the deliberate distortion of what is going on.

And please read up on how Social Security works as apparently its grasp is still lost on you.
No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

Offline Snarknado

  • Anti
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,542
Re: Trump outlines a significant Social Security cut in his 2020 budget
« Reply #35 on: March 16, 2019, 01:04:45 am »
He reads but cannot see.

One does not have to be a widow to collect SS benefits like you say.  One does not have to a pay a dime into the system to collect.

And as far as your far-fetched attempt to shame all of us for an illegal paying into the system on our behalf, that is a ridiculous stretch.

Not only should they not even be here anyway, but that wage they are making is being stolen from a real American who does not have that job.

So please spare us the deliberate distortion of what is going on.

And please read up on how Social Security works as apparently its grasp is still lost on you.

It's surprising how many people aren't aware of the spousal benefit. Last month I was talking to a guy who recently retired. He was saying that his wife, a few years younger, hated her crap job but needed 4 more years to qualify for SS. I knew with his job his benefit had to be near the max, so I asked why she didn't just take the higher spousal benefit. He had no idea what I was talking about, and I'm pretty sure he didn't believe me when I explained it. How can any halfway-intelligent worker plan for retirement without learning the basics of SS?
---
Everything I need to know I learned in GTA

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,746
Re: Trump outlines a significant Social Security cut in his 2020 budget
« Reply #36 on: March 16, 2019, 12:48:07 pm »
It's surprising how many people aren't aware of the spousal benefit. Last month I was talking to a guy who recently retired. He was saying that his wife, a few years younger, hated her crap job but needed 4 more years to qualify for SS. I knew with his job his benefit had to be near the max, so I asked why she didn't just take the higher spousal benefit. He had no idea what I was talking about, and I'm pretty sure he didn't believe me when I explained it. How can any halfway-intelligent worker plan for retirement without learning the basics of SS?
I really don't know why people don't learn about it. One guy here believes my wife is getting SS because I am dead.

My wife makes half as much as I do, so that is a 50% increase in financial planning.
No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

Offline jafo2010

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,525
  • Dems-greatest existential threat to USA republic!
Re: Trump outlines a significant Social Security cut in his 2020 budget
« Reply #37 on: March 19, 2019, 05:14:17 am »
Fact is, there are people collecting Social Security in the states that never paid a single dime into it, and I am not speaking of spouses, etc.  I know folks that came to America who were age 65 or higher and started collecting Social Security from the get go.

For USA citizens, you would normally be expected to work 40 quarters to collect your own Social Security benefit. 

And then there are the variations that have been mentioned in this thread.  And why would we expect anyone in America to know what they are talking about?  We are a nation of people that are largely clueless.  Recently, I heard it mentioned that 80% of Americans would not be able to point to a map and show where our national capitol is located.  Why would they know Social Security policies?  They don't.

I turn 66 this year, and will be eligible for the full benefit, but I also know I can collect an additional $1,000 per month by waiting four more years and collect at age 70.  Collect at 66 or 70...I have no idea what is better.  When the time comes, I will run the numbers and make a business decision for me.  Off the top of my head, I am guessing I would have to live and collect until I am about 84 to properly break even, so I am leaning to collecting at 66.  Of course, if I have a lucrative income come age 66, I think it might be beneficial for me to wait, for one ends up giving up the Social Security benefit dramatically if you earn above a certain level, something like one dollar for every two earned above a certain level....roughly.

I fully support clamping down on abuse in all federal programs.  Trump has committed to not change the basic Social Security, and I trust he will stick to that mindset.

I also believe we need to transition to individual accounts, and if it means introducing it by adding X percent to the Social Security Tax, I would support that, i.e. the following:

Year 1-3    1%
       4-6     2%
       7-9     3%
    10-12    4%
    13-15    5%
    16-18    6%

Note:  these monies would go ONLY into an account in your name, with the ability to chose what accounts it would go into, along the lines of a 401k, but not be limited to just those funds offered by an employer, but open to all funds, stock that are registered with the exchanges, etc.

For those worried about excess risk, set limits on risk, i.e. limiting the portfolio risk level based on age, etc.

To continue with ONLY a program as currently designed is beyond stupid.  So, let's get creative and design a system that ends the theft by Congress to spend the funds on whatever they want.  We can still offer the conventional program for those fearful to manage their own monies.




Offline Snarknado

  • Anti
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,542
Re: Trump outlines a significant Social Security cut in his 2020 budget
« Reply #38 on: March 19, 2019, 12:17:13 pm »


...Of course, if I have a lucrative income come age 66, I think it might be beneficial for me to wait, for one ends up giving up the Social Security benefit dramatically if you earn above a certain level, something like one dollar for every two earned above a certain level....roughly....


The earnings-based reduction only applies if you take SS early. Once you reach FRA there's no earnings limit. I believe you also receive some form of credit for the reductions that increase future benefits, so you're not getting penalized as much as it might seem.

Delaying past FRA is attractive for some. Basically each month of delay buys an additional COLAed $15-20/mo for life, significantly more than you can get from any annuity provider. Plus, using the years between ending work and starting benefits to do large Roth conversions can save a bundle in taxes when you have to start IRA/401k withdrawals.

---
Everything I need to know I learned in GTA

Offline edpc

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,879
  • Gender: Male
  • Professional Misanthrope - Briefer and Boxer
Re: Trump outlines a significant Social Security cut in his 2020 budget
« Reply #39 on: March 19, 2019, 12:41:11 pm »
Ten year projected cuts are a joke. In most cases, the changes are back loaded. The plans rarely make it that far, before they are changed or canceled, entirely.
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Offline Jazzhead

  • Blue lives matter
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,593
  • Gender: Male
Re: Trump outlines a significant Social Security cut in his 2020 budget
« Reply #40 on: March 19, 2019, 01:54:50 pm »
I really don't know why people don't learn about it. One guy here believes my wife is getting SS because I am dead.

My wife makes half as much as I do, so that is a 50% increase in financial planning.

Stop being coy.  Why is your wife collecting SS while not having paid into the system?   
It's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide

Offline Jazzhead

  • Blue lives matter
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,593
  • Gender: Male
Re: Trump outlines a significant Social Security cut in his 2020 budget
« Reply #41 on: March 19, 2019, 02:00:03 pm »
I'll be turning 62 this year,  and I'm trying to decide whether to start collecting SS early.   I'll take a significant haircut to do so, but I'll still come out ahead at least until I'm in about my mid-seventies.    So it's a question of whether I'm likely to live that long or, more to the point, be physically able to enjoy life.   Every year that I deal with the stress of full time work is one less year to enjoy my dwindling years of physical ability.   So for me, it's not so much a matter of maximizing my financial situation (that's easy - keep working!),  but rather maximizing my ability to enjoy life after decades of denial.   It's that trade-off between money and time that makes the retirement decision so difficult.     
« Last Edit: March 19, 2019, 02:03:30 pm by Jazzhead »
It's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide

Offline catfish1957

  • Laken Riley.... Say her Name. And to every past and future democrat voter- Her blood is on your hands too!!!
  • Political Researcher
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,354
  • Gender: Male
Re: Trump outlines a significant Social Security cut in his 2020 budget
« Reply #42 on: March 19, 2019, 02:05:55 pm »
With the next leftist socialist POTUS/congress, I expect seveal  pushes in this area.  These are listed from lowest to highest probability of happening

Scenario 1- which will have maximum backlash will be a government attempt of consfication of IRA's / 401 k's into a government run 1 system combined with social security.

Scenario 2 - SS benefits will be indexed out based on other household income. (i.e <$100K, recieve 100%, $100-200K- 80%, $200K-$400K , 50% >$400K none.

Scenario 3- Indexing of SS payroll withholding as income goes up.  Percentages will be based on annual income.

Scenario 4-  Increase age of eligibiity

Scenario 5-  And very very likely-   Cap removed on SS tax withholdings which is now anything over $132.9K annually.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2019, 02:07:17 pm by catfish1957 »
I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.

Offline catfish1957

  • Laken Riley.... Say her Name. And to every past and future democrat voter- Her blood is on your hands too!!!
  • Political Researcher
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,354
  • Gender: Male
Re: Trump outlines a significant Social Security cut in his 2020 budget
« Reply #43 on: March 19, 2019, 02:10:56 pm »
I'll be turning 62 this year,  and I'm trying to decide whether to start collecting SS early.   I'll take a significant haircut to do so, but I'll still come out ahead at least until I'm in about my mid-seventies.    So it's a question of whether I'm likely to live that long or, more to the point, be physically able to enjoy life.   Every year that I deal with the stress of full time work is one less year to enjoy my dwindling years of physical ability.   So for me, it's not so much a matter of maximizing my financial situation (that's easy - keep working!),  but rather maximizing my ability to enjoy life after decades of denial.   It's that trade-off between money and time that makes the retirement decision so difficult.     

Advise I give everyone is look at it from a probabiity standpoint.  You've done the work and determined your break even point is in your mid '70's.  Based on family health history , and expected longevity.....  try to beat the house one way or the other.  In that decision don't forget average COLA expectations, and inflation.

Good luck.
I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.

Offline Chosen Daughter

  • For there is no respect of persons with God. Romans 10:12-13
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,890
  • Gender: Female
  • Ephesians 6:13 Stand Firm in the face of evil
Re: Trump outlines a significant Social Security cut in his 2020 budget
« Reply #44 on: March 19, 2019, 02:28:46 pm »
Big damned deal.   They're getting off light, tax-wise, by only paying SSN taxes.  And... they are committing FRAUD.  Cry me a river.

Only in America could someone argue that breaking Immigration law.  Stealing someone's identity and SS, committing fraud is a good thing.
AG William Barr: "I'm recused from that matter because one of the law firms that represented Epstein long ago was a firm that I subsequently joined for a period of time."

Alexander Acosta Labor Secretary resigned under pressure concerning his "sweetheart deal" with Jeffrey Epstein.  He was under consideration for AG after Sessions was removed, but was forced to resign instead.

Offline Snarknado

  • Anti
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,542
Re: Trump outlines a significant Social Security cut in his 2020 budget
« Reply #45 on: March 19, 2019, 11:58:47 pm »
Stop being coy.  Why is your wife collecting SS while not having paid into the system?

Is it too much trouble to google SS spousal benefit? It's the first hit https://www.ssa.gov/planners/retire/applying6.html
---
Everything I need to know I learned in GTA