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Offline rangerrebew

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Army snipers put new, more accurate rifle to the test
« on: March 14, 2019, 08:47:59 AM »
Army snipers put new, more accurate rifle to the test

(Maj. Michael P. Brabner, 

US Army sharpshooters recently field tested a new, more accurate sniper rifle out west, where these top marksman fired thousands of rounds and even when waged simulated warfare in force-on-force training.

Eight Army Ivy Division snipers assigned to the 2nd Infantry Brigade Combat Team tested out the new M110A1 Compact, Semi-Automatic Sniper System (CSASS), an upgraded version of the current M110 Semi-Automatic Sniper System (SASS), at Fort Carson in Colorado, the Army revealed in a statement.

Comparatively, the new CSASS offers advantageous features like increased accuracy and reduced weight, among other improvements.

https://www.wearethemighty.com/news/army-snipers-accurate-rifle-test
« Last Edit: March 14, 2019, 08:48:40 AM by rangerrebew »
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Offline Elderberry

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Re: Army snipers put new, more accurate rifle to the test
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2019, 09:00:29 AM »
Up Close And Personal With The Army’s Lethal New Sniper Rifle
by Jared Keller October 12, 2017 at 05:06 PM

https://taskandpurpose.com/csass-army-sniper-rifle

Quote
Despite a brief period of ambiguity wrought by budget-jousting among lawmakers in Congress, the Army’s new and improved sniper rifle is alive and well.

Heckler & Koch showed off its M110A1 7.62mm semi-automatic sniper rifle, selected for the Army’s Compact Semi-Automatic Sniper System (CSASS) program on the floor of the Association of the U.S. Army’s annual conference and exposition in Washington this week, a first up-close-and-personal look at the lightweight rifle.

With a 16 inch long barrel and weighing 8.7 pounds with an empty magazine, the HK certainly meets the Army’s CSASS requirements size and weight requirements. It boasts a Schmidt & Bender 3-20X50 PMII Ultra Short Scope for improved optics and accuracy.
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Army snipers put new, more accurate rifle to the test
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2019, 10:45:39 AM »
Anybody know what type bullet is commonly used,and how much it weighs?

Or have radicals now taken over,and one bullet isn't supposed to do everything?
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Offline Elderberry

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Re: Army snipers put new, more accurate rifle to the test
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2019, 11:05:22 AM »
Anybody know what type bullet is commonly used,and how much it weighs?

Or have radicals now taken over,and one bullet isn't supposed to do everything?

I think they are using the "7.62 × 51mm MK 316 MOD 0 Special Ball, Long Range"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M24_Sniper_Weapon_System

    7.62 × 51mm MK 316 MOD 0 Special Ball, Long Range: A 175-grain round consisting of Sierra MatchKing Hollow Point Boat Tail projectiles, Federal Cartridge Company match cartridge cases and Gold Medal Match primers and an undisclosed modified extruded propellant. The 7.62 × 51mm MK 316 MOD 0 Special Ball, Long Range cartridges have an accuracy requirement based around 10-round shotgroups. The Propellant has been verified as modified version of IMR 4064 as stated in DODIC: AB39 NSN: 1305-01-567-6944.[citation needed]
        The average extreme spread for 10-round shotgroups shall be less than or equal to the following values:
        600 yd: 7.0 in (first Production Lot). This equates to a ≤ 1.1 MOA requirement at 548.6 m.
        300 yd: 3.5 in (after first Production Lot). This equates to a ≤ 1.1 MOA requirement at 274.3 m.

The maximum muzzle velocity standard deviation is set at 15 ft/s (4.57 m/s). Information published on acceptance tests regarding five MK 316 MOD 0 cartridge production lots indicated a sub 2.4 in at 300 yd performance. This equates to a sub 0.8 MOA performance at 274.3 m for the listed ammunition lots.[12]
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Army snipers put new, more accurate rifle to the test
« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2019, 11:18:46 AM »
I think they are using the "7.62 × 51mm MK 316 MOD 0 Special Ball, Long Range"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M24_Sniper_Weapon_System

    7.62 × 51mm MK 316 MOD 0 Special Ball, Long Range: A 175-grain round consisting of Sierra MatchKing Hollow Point Boat Tail projectiles, Federal Cartridge Company match cartridge cases and Gold Medal Match primers and an undisclosed modified extruded propellant. The 7.62 × 51mm MK 316 MOD 0 Special Ball, Long Range cartridges have an accuracy requirement based around 10-round shotgroups. The Propellant has been verified as modified version of IMR 4064 as stated in DODIC: AB39 NSN: 1305-01-567-6944.[citation needed]
        The average extreme spread for 10-round shotgroups shall be less than or equal to the following values:
        600 yd: 7.0 in (first Production Lot). This equates to a ≤ 1.1 MOA requirement at 548.6 m.
        300 yd: 3.5 in (after first Production Lot). This equates to a ≤ 1.1 MOA requirement at 274.3 m.

The maximum muzzle velocity standard deviation is set at 15 ft/s (4.57 m/s). Information published on acceptance tests regarding five MK 316 MOD 0 cartridge production lots indicated a sub 2.4 in at 300 yd performance. This equates to a sub 0.8 MOA performance at 274.3 m for the listed ammunition lots.[12]

@Elderberry

Sure sounds good on paper,doesn't it? I wonder what the rifling twist is?

I'd like to pick up a box or two to try in my FAL. Too lazy to load it up myself anymore.
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Offline Elderberry

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Re: Army snipers put new, more accurate rifle to the test
« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2019, 11:28:02 AM »
@Elderberry

Sure sounds good on paper,doesn't it? I wonder what the rifling twist is?

I'd like to pick up a box or two to try in my FAL. Too lazy to load it up myself anymore.

1:11

https://www.knightarmco.com/12016/shop/military/m110
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Offline Elderberry

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Re: Army snipers put new, more accurate rifle to the test
« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2019, 11:55:40 AM »
I don't mind loading for bolt actions and revolvers. I just hate looking for ejected brass.
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Offline verga

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Re: Army snipers put new, more accurate rifle to the test
« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2019, 01:10:38 PM »
BKMK
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�More than any other time in history, mankind faces a crossroads. One path leads to despair and utter hopelessness. The other, to total extinction. Let us pray we have the wisdom to choose correctly.�-Woody Allen
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Offline verga

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Re: Army snipers put new, more accurate rifle to the test
« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2019, 01:11:59 PM »
Funny bI was just reading that the .224 Valkyrie was the "hot new round" for long distance.
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
�More than any other time in history, mankind faces a crossroads. One path leads to despair and utter hopelessness. The other, to total extinction. Let us pray we have the wisdom to choose correctly.�-Woody Allen
If God invented marathons to keep people from doing anything more stupid, the triathlon must have taken him completely by surprise.

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Army snipers put new, more accurate rifle to the test
« Reply #9 on: March 14, 2019, 06:27:02 PM »
1:11

https://www.knightarmco.com/12016/shop/military/m110

@Elderberry

DAYUM! I am going to have to get hold of a box or two of that stuff and try it out,

I know I am always ranting about how the US Military should just STFU and adopt the FN-FAL in 7x57 as their new battle rifle for making long shots,but my own FAL is in 308. My thinking is that there is no way in hell the clerks with stars that make these decisions is going to go back to 308 after spending decades getting rid of the 30/06 and 308 battle rifles. That would be just like admitting they were wrong,and no bureaucrat will EVER do that.

And since they can't go 30 caliber and are trying to get away from 22 caliber,it's gotta be a 7 mm.
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Army snipers put new, more accurate rifle to the test
« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2019, 06:33:10 PM »
Funny bI was just reading that the .224 Valkyrie was the "hot new round" for long distance.

@verga

You can read anything,but if you want to shoot across a valley with all those gusty cross winds and take out a human-sized target,you need a 7mm or a 7.62 mm as a minumum. Any bore smaller eliminates your ability to shoot the long,heavy bullets. Since the 50 BMG round ain't NEVER going to be a main battle rifle unless we breed a generation of giants,it's gotta be something smaller and still bigger than a 22. Any bore with a diameter smaller than 7 mm is just too small,
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Offline Elderberry

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Re: Army snipers put new, more accurate rifle to the test
« Reply #11 on: March 14, 2019, 06:54:02 PM »
I sure hated that they went from 06 to 308. I have 2 Garands and a Rem 760 Pump in 06. My boys have run thru all my 06 Match ammo. I still have hundreds of Greek delinked MG ammo. I wouldn't mind them going to 7mm at all. I have a 95 and a 98 Mauser in 7mm Mauser. I chambered them to be as identical to each other as I could, so I could run necksized ammo thru both and not care which gun it was shot in. That 95Mauser is the most accurate as I mounted a very stiff Madsen MG barrel on it.
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Offline Elderberry

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Re: Army snipers put new, more accurate rifle to the test
« Reply #12 on: March 14, 2019, 07:00:43 PM »
Funny bI was just reading that the .224 Valkyrie was the "hot new round" for long distance.


From what I've read, the .224 Valkyrie is a long distance "Lightning Rod" if all you care about is paper punching. 
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Offline verga

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Re: Army snipers put new, more accurate rifle to the test
« Reply #13 on: March 14, 2019, 07:21:04 PM »
@verga

You can read anything,but if you want to shoot across a valley with all those gusty cross winds and take out a human-sized target,you need a 7mm or a 7.62 mm as a minumum. Any bore smaller eliminates your ability to shoot the long,heavy bullets. Since the 50 BMG round ain't NEVER going to be a main battle rifle unless we breed a generation of giants,it's gotta be something smaller and still bigger than a 22. Any bore with a diameter smaller than 7 mm is just too small,
Just built a .223 Wylde. I can run .223 or 5.56 through it all day long. Shoots like a dream. I am trying to decide between a .308 and 6.5 Creedmoor for my next build project. The .308 will give me the power, but the 6.5 will give me a little more distance accuracy.
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
�More than any other time in history, mankind faces a crossroads. One path leads to despair and utter hopelessness. The other, to total extinction. Let us pray we have the wisdom to choose correctly.�-Woody Allen
If God invented marathons to keep people from doing anything more stupid, the triathlon must have taken him completely by surprise.

Offline Elderberry

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Re: Army snipers put new, more accurate rifle to the test
« Reply #14 on: March 14, 2019, 07:39:33 PM »
Just built a .223 Wylde. I can run .223 or 5.56 through it all day long. Shoots like a dream. I am trying to decide between a .308 and 6.5 Creedmoor for my next build project. The .308 will give me the power, but the 6.5 will give me a little more distance accuracy.

I have a short action Rem 700. It was a .243 for many years and then I rebarreled it to .308. I was not able to load as long as I desired so I decided to change again. I went to the 6.5x47 Lapua. I can load as long as I desire and have killed several deer and hogs with it. My first AR15 build was the 6.5 Grendel and I'm pleased with its performance. I can load the same bullets I run in the Lapua, 130gr Berger VLDs, with an acceptable velocity penalty from the Lapua. My current AR15 build was the 358 Yeti that uses a shortened .308 family of cases.
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Army snipers put new, more accurate rifle to the test
« Reply #15 on: March 14, 2019, 07:58:17 PM »
Just built a .223 Wylde. I can run .223 or 5.56 through it all day long. Shoots like a dream. I am trying to decide between a .308 and 6.5 Creedmoor for my next build project. The .308 will give me the power, but the 6.5 will give me a little more distance accuracy.

@verga

Sounds to me you have already decided you need a 7MM,but just haven't realized it yet.
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Offline verga

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Re: Army snipers put new, more accurate rifle to the test
« Reply #16 on: March 15, 2019, 08:01:13 AM »
I have a short action Rem 700. It was a .243 for many years and then I rebarreled it to .308. I was not able to load as long as I desired so I decided to change again. I went to the 6.5x47 Lapua. I can load as long as I desire and have killed several deer and hogs with it. My first AR15 build was the 6.5 Grendel and I'm pleased with its performance. I can load the same bullets I run in the Lapua, 130gr Berger VLDs, with an acceptable velocity penalty from the Lapua. My current AR15 build was the 358 Yeti that uses a shortened .308 family of cases.
:thumbsup:
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
�More than any other time in history, mankind faces a crossroads. One path leads to despair and utter hopelessness. The other, to total extinction. Let us pray we have the wisdom to choose correctly.�-Woody Allen
If God invented marathons to keep people from doing anything more stupid, the triathlon must have taken him completely by surprise.

Offline verga

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Re: Army snipers put new, more accurate rifle to the test
« Reply #17 on: March 15, 2019, 08:02:31 AM »
@verga

Sounds to me you have already decided you need a 7MM,but just haven't realized it yet.
Can I get 1,000+ yards consistent hits with a 7mm?
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
�More than any other time in history, mankind faces a crossroads. One path leads to despair and utter hopelessness. The other, to total extinction. Let us pray we have the wisdom to choose correctly.�-Woody Allen
If God invented marathons to keep people from doing anything more stupid, the triathlon must have taken him completely by surprise.

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Army snipers put new, more accurate rifle to the test
« Reply #18 on: March 15, 2019, 08:38:50 AM »
Can I get 1,000+ yards consistent hits with a 7mm?

@verga

Depends on how well you shoot,how careful you are putting your loads together,the size of what it is you are shooting at,and how big that "plus" is.

But generally speaking,the 7mm will do it better than any 6 or 6.5 mm round,and not quite as well as some of the 30 caliber rounds. It's all about bullet weight/design and case capacity,as well as powder selection. Get a few reloading manuals and look up the various loads.
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Offline Elderberry

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Re: Army snipers put new, more accurate rifle to the test
« Reply #19 on: March 15, 2019, 08:40:32 AM »
Can I get 1,000+ yards consistent hits with a 7mm?

Absolutely.

Sniping Cartridges – 7mm Remington Magnum

http://www.snipercentral.com/cartridges-7mm/

Quote
While we initially did not include the 7mm Rem Mag in our ammo section, it actually does have a sniper history, primarily with the US Secret Service. They used the 7mm Rem Mag for a good number of years using ammo loaded by HSM. The Secret Service eventually migrated to the 300 Win Mag and since then the 7mm has really only been minimally used in the sniping community, though it is a favorite of hunters and even some competitors.

One of the reasons the 7mm has not gained wide acceptance as a sniping round is because it is seen that anything the 7mm can do, the .300 Win Mag can do as well or better. The 7mm doesn’t kick as much but it shoots lighter bullets than the .300, though some of them have very high BC’s which allows it to do well at longer ranges. With the right ammo, the 0-1000 meter ballistics are VERY impressive and the 7mm is easily capable of 1000+ meter shooting, but it falls short of the .300 in most regards while significantly outpacing the .308 (Which really shouldn’t surprise anyone). The Remington 700P was available for a while chambered in the 7mm Rem Mag, but beyond that there are not a lot of sniper rifle options available that are not custom built rifles. Luckily HSM still loads the excellent 7mm 168gr match load that the Secret Service used and it is available for purchase as is a 168gr Berger and 162gr Amax load which both will rival the A191 300 WM load.

Recommendation:The 7mm is recommended for military applications out to 1000+ meters.
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Offline verga

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Re: Army snipers put new, more accurate rifle to the test
« Reply #20 on: March 15, 2019, 03:29:56 PM »
@verga

Sounds to me you have already decided you need a 7MM,but just haven't realized it yet.
@sneaky pete I checked out several 7mm on you tube. 7mm 08, and the 7mm 300 win mag.
What is the difference between these?
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
�More than any other time in history, mankind faces a crossroads. One path leads to despair and utter hopelessness. The other, to total extinction. Let us pray we have the wisdom to choose correctly.�-Woody Allen
If God invented marathons to keep people from doing anything more stupid, the triathlon must have taken him completely by surprise.

Offline Bigun

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Re: Army snipers put new, more accurate rifle to the test
« Reply #21 on: March 15, 2019, 04:32:30 PM »
@sneaky pete I checked out several 7mm on you tube. 7mm 08, and the 7mm 300 win mag.
What is the difference between these?

Case capacity. The latter will hold a lot more powder than the former which may or may not translate into higher performance.

Offline Elderberry

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Re: Army snipers put new, more accurate rifle to the test
« Reply #22 on: March 15, 2019, 05:01:21 PM »
@sneaky pete I checked out several 7mm on you tube. 7mm 08, and the 7mm 300 win mag.
What is the difference between these?

Another one to look at, the 7mm Practical

https://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/7mm+Practical.html

Quote
Performance

Over the years, I have developed some extremely potent loads for this cartridge but for long range precision work, accuracy is the key. A long throated gun can drive a 162 grain bullet at around 3275fps. The same goes for 28-32” barreled guns or suppressed rifles which also boost velocities. But publishing such data has a tendency to create over optimistic expectations with folk chasing velocity over accuracy. Taking into account the many rifles in circulation and from a 26” barrel, extreme accuracy sweet spots for the 7mm Practical and 160-162gr bullets are generally between 3200 and 3225fps. Bullets weighing 175 to 180 grains generally produce sweet spots at around 3000 to 3050fps. The 195 grain Berger can be driven at velocities of 2950fps to 3000fps.

The 7mm Remington Magnum with a 26” barrel (e.g Remington Sendero) tends to produce average high end sweet spots of 3070fps with a 160-162 grain bullet though some rifles boast velocities of 3125fps. Sweet spots for 175-180 grain bullets can be as high as 2925fps however the 180 grain ELD-M tends to work best at around 2860fps in the Remington. The Practical therefore produces velocities which are on average 125 to 150fps faster than the Rem Mag. The 7mm RUM generally produces sweet spots with 160-162 grain bullets at 3275fps. The Practical (without mucking around with long barrels or long throats) is therefore 50-75fps behind the RUM but with much greater barrel life and with much greater (or easier) accuracy. The Practical can last to and beyond 1200 rounds while the 7mm RUM can fall over anywhere between 400 to 600 rounds. A bore scope is all that is needed to provide hard evidence of this. The Practical truly is a common sense limit for the 7mm bore.

The 7mm Practical is best suited to light through to mid weight game species but is also able to tackle larger game species with new select bullets, more so now thanks to new heavy weight bullet designs. The high velocities of the Practical can be used as a means to maximize wound trauma at extended ranges with minimum wind drift. The Practical cannot however fire the very heavy 200-285 grain bullets that prove so effective in the .300 and .338 magnums when used on large heavy bodied game. Elk are the upper limit for the 7mm Practical.

This is a very flat shooting, wind beating cartridge and at times, it feels as though one is almost cheating, such is its good performance. The Practical makes the .338’s seem like old Cadillac’s in comparison. Due to the nature of my work, I spend a great deal of time testing the .338 bores and it is always a relief to go back to the laser like performance of the Practical. At “extended ranges” of 400-600 yards, shots can be taken with a great deal of ease. At 700 to 800 yards, the Practical really begins to come into its own. At truly long ranges, one becomes infinitely grateful for its abilities.
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Offline Lando Lincoln

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Re: Army snipers put new, more accurate rifle to the test
« Reply #23 on: March 15, 2019, 05:50:27 PM »
The 7mm-08 is my personal favorite.  Had the military adopted it - and aptly called it the 7x51 - it would be everywhere.  Incredible inherent accuracy, terrific ballistics, and light recoil.  What's not to like?  My favorite north woods carry rifle?  My Browning BLR in 7mm-08 (it was my father's).  I load it with 139 gr. ballistic tip rounds and H414 powder. 
« Last Edit: March 15, 2019, 05:59:14 PM by Lando Lincoln »
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Offline Bigun

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Re: Army snipers put new, more accurate rifle to the test
« Reply #24 on: March 15, 2019, 06:44:18 PM »
@verga

If I were you, I would be looking for a .270 short winchester magnum. 

I know Savage is currently producing rifles chambered in that caliber and factory ammo is widely available.  IMHO you can't go wrong with that. If I could own only one rifle, that would be my choice hands down.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2019, 06:50:13 PM by Bigun »


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