Author Topic: Army snipers put new, more accurate rifle to the test  (Read 1873 times)

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Online Elderberry

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Re: Army snipers put new, more accurate rifle to the test
« Reply #25 on: March 16, 2019, 02:07:54 am »
The 7mm-08 is my personal favorite.  Had the military adopted it - and aptly called it the 7x51 - it would be everywhere.  Incredible inherent accuracy, terrific ballistics, and light recoil.  What's not to like?  My favorite north woods carry rifle?  My Browning BLR in 7mm-08 (it was my father's).  I load it with 139 gr. ballistic tip rounds and H414 powder.

Your 7-08 Rem is ballistically equivalent to my much older 7mm Mausers. Even though it has less case capacity of 52.2 gr to Mauser's 55.6 gr it can even exceed the velocity of the Mauser due to its SAAMI pressure of 61,000 psi to Mauser's lower 51,000 psi due to all the older weaker rifles, like my 95 Mauser. The 7mm Mauser was loaded initially with a 173 gr bullet using a 1 in 8.66 twist. The 7-08 with it's faster 1 in 9.5 twist was designed for lighter bullets. The 7-08 can be used in a short action rifle, but if using heavy weight bullets, the bullets will have to be deep seated to fit the magazine, not a problem with the Mauser, or even a 7-08 in a standard length action.

More info:https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2017/9/29/a-tale-of-two-sevens-the-7-mm-08-vs-the-7x57-mm-mauser/

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Army snipers put new, more accurate rifle to the test
« Reply #26 on: March 16, 2019, 03:08:48 am »
@sneaky pete I checked out several 7mm on you tube. 7mm 08, and the 7mm 300 win mag.
What is the difference between these?

@verga

Sorry for the late reply.I had almost completed a reply to you earlier,and for some reason unknown to me the whole damn web page disappeared and I couldn't find it until now.

Anyway,the physical difference is one is based on the standard 308 Winchester case and the other is based on the much larger 300 Winchester belted magnum case.

IMNSHO,the way to go is the 7mm-08 unless you are shooting dangerous big game or mostly shooting at targets or varmits 1000 + yards away.

The necked down to 7mm 308 Win/Nato case is pretty close to an ideal combo IMNSHO. MUCH cheaper to reload for,much more effecient for standard hunting loads,and you don't need an expensive Magnumn-length action to build the gun.

Nor will you need a 26 inch heavy barrel like you would with the 300 Mag case.

Then again,I am a little biased against the 300 Winchester Magnum. Never did like the case design. I MUCH prefered the 300 H&H magnum chambering. I once owned one in a 700 Remington action and would do a little happy dance every time I picked it up. SOB would shoot 3 touching holes at 100 yards all day long if I did my part,and accuracy is the ballistics Gawd that I worship above all others. Unfortunately I got hard up for money once when sick,and had to sell most of my guns,inlcuding the 300 H&H. Still miss it,though. I am betting that whoever owns it now could probably sell it for serious bucks to a Remington collector. It's been a LONG time since you could buy a new Remington chambered for the 300 H&H Magnum,and I don't see it ever being offered again.

To sum it up,if most of your shooting will be at large,dangerous game at close range,or harmless game at 1000 yards or so,go with the 7 MM  Magnum chambering. If your shooting isn't quite that demanding,go with the 7mm-08 chambering.
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Army snipers put new, more accurate rifle to the test
« Reply #27 on: March 16, 2019, 03:18:40 am »
Another one to look at, the 7mm Practical

https://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/7mm+Practical.html

@Elderberry

I can't find a thing you wrote that I can disagree with. I will add that *I* personally hate long throats as I find them to be the enemy of accuracy unless you exclusively shoot long bullets that "kiss" the bore,as well having short lives due to erosion. They are ok as long as you only shoot rounds designed to work with them,though.

IMNSHO,I think the pick for MOST shooters would be the 7mm-08.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2019, 03:20:26 am by sneakypete »
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Offline RetBobbyMI

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Re: Army snipers put new, more accurate rifle to the test
« Reply #28 on: March 16, 2019, 12:19:14 pm »
If Trump would declare the Mexican cartels as terrorist organizations, they could try it across the border taking out the terrorists.  :whistle:
"Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid."  -- John Wayne
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Offline xyno

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Re: Army snipers put new, more accurate rifle to the test
« Reply #29 on: March 16, 2019, 01:16:28 pm »
@sneaky pete I checked out several 7mm on you tube. 7mm 08, and the 7mm 300 win mag.
What is the difference between these?

@verga

In very basic terms, the 7mm-08 was developed by necking down the .308 cartridge (7.62x51) so it is a short action round.  @Lando Lincoln is correct in calling it 7x51.  The combination of accuracy, ballistics and light recoil makes it a winner.  Factory ammo pricing is reasonable also.  The recoil of the 7mm Magnum can beat the snot out of you if you like to shoot and is more prone to rip up game if bone is struck.  I know some guys who have the 7mm-08 in a reasonably priced Savage 110 bolt.  Incredible accuracy.  It is a winner. 
« Last Edit: March 16, 2019, 01:30:48 pm by xyno »

Online Elderberry

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Re: Army snipers put new, more accurate rifle to the test
« Reply #30 on: March 16, 2019, 02:21:06 pm »
Just built a .223 Wylde. I can run .223 or 5.56 through it all day long. Shoots like a dream. I am trying to decide between a .308 and 6.5 Creedmoor for my next build project. The .308 will give me the power, but the 6.5 will give me a little more distance accuracy.
@verga

You haven't identified a platform for your build. You built a .223. That could be an AR15 or a bolt action. Then you brought up .308 and 6.5 Creedmoor that can run in both an AR10 or bolt action.   And you commented about a need for 1000 yd accuracy. You also commented about the .224 Valkyrie. 

Have you considered it's big brother the 7mm Valkyrie AR if you are looking for an AR 15 build?  In the link, it shows 1000 yd vel of 1366 fps with the 168 gr Berger.

https://www.7mmvalkyrie.com/

https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/7mm_Valkyire_AR_wildcat/121-678825/

And my son has a Rem 700 in 300 Win Mag. I have shot it with him several times at the range. I would have to say its recoil, to me, is not noticeable. It may be due to his Accuracy International stock he has on it. Its actually a pleasure to shoot.

Online Lando Lincoln

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Re: Army snipers put new, more accurate rifle to the test
« Reply #31 on: March 16, 2019, 08:14:17 pm »
@Elderberry

Thanks for the comments.  My story is the flip of yours but I understand your remarks about recoil.  A lot depends on the platform, as you say.  I have a nicely sporterized Mauser set up in .30-06.  I bought it at an auction some thirty or thirty-five years ago in North Dakota.  It is nice but it absolutely jars the bones.  It recoils much worse than my other 06's or .45-70.  I had a gunsmith look at it years ago and all he could recommend was installing a muzzle brake.  I don't shoot it anymore.  I know I flinch. 
« Last Edit: March 16, 2019, 08:50:37 pm by Lando Lincoln »
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Online Elderberry

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Re: Army snipers put new, more accurate rifle to the test
« Reply #32 on: March 16, 2019, 08:50:07 pm »
I had the misfortune once of getting pinched between the steel buttplate and the gun bench when I fired my 98 Mauser. Fortunately, soon after that, I lucked into a composite stock for it at a gun show at a reasonable price. Once I was at the rifle range and a young shooter next to me asked if I would shoot his rifle for him as his shoulder was already too sore and wanted to know if it was sighted in close enough. He was shooting a light, short stocked, scoped, 30-30 lever action. He was probably not pulling that short stock tight into his shoulder.  I've always run peep sights on lever actions myself. I have been known to put a sand bag between the butt plate and my shoulder.

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Army snipers put new, more accurate rifle to the test
« Reply #33 on: March 17, 2019, 02:51:06 am »
@Elderberry

Thanks for the comments.  My story is the flip of yours but I understand your remarks about recoil.  A lot depends on the platform, as you say.  I have a nicely sporterized Mauser set up in .30-06.  I bought it at an auction some thirty or thirty-five years ago in North Dakota.  It is nice but it absolutely jars the bones.  It recoils much worse than my other 06's or .45-70.  I had a gunsmith look at it years ago and all he could recommend was installing a muzzle brake.  I don't shoot it anymore.  I know I flinch.

@Lando Lincoln

Does it still have the military stock? You would be surprised how much a properly built stock that fits you does to reduce recoil,and recoil with any of the late 1800's or early 1900's military rifles is brutal.

If money is a little tight,you can probably contact one of the gunsmithing schools and have a stock build and only pay for the materials. Make sure you contact them before you ship the barrelled receiver off about the measurements they will need.

The bad news is to expect to wait months to get it back.

Or you could just buy a semi-finished blank from a company that sells stocks,and do the inletting and glass bedding yourself. If you have never done this,I HIGHLY recommend buy at least two books on how to carve and finish gun stocks. Brownells can supply you with quality woodworking tools at a reasonable price,and probably provide you with a semi-finished stock in the wood of your choice,too.

BTW,if you have never done this before,take my advise and buy the cheapest chuck of plain walnut you can buy. Some people just seem to have a gift for building stocks,and others,like me,can destroy a freaking forest trying to get one right. If the cheap semi works out for you,you can always pick out a nicer semi later to inlet if you want something pretty. If it doesn't work out for you,you know to not waste anymore of your money on blanks,and to have a gunsmithing school or a pro do the work.
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Offline verga

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Re: Army snipers put new, more accurate rifle to the test
« Reply #34 on: March 18, 2019, 06:53:43 pm »
@verga

You haven't identified a platform for your build. You built a .223. That could be an AR15 or a bolt action. Then you brought up .308 and 6.5 Creedmoor that can run in both an AR10 or bolt action.   And you commented about a need for 1000 yd accuracy. You also commented about the .224 Valkyrie. 

Have you considered it's big brother the 7mm Valkyrie AR if you are looking for an AR 15 build?  In the link, it shows 1000 yd vel of 1366 fps with the 168 gr Berger.

https://www.7mmvalkyrie.com/

https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/7mm_Valkyire_AR_wildcat/121-678825/

And my son has a Rem 700 in 300 Win Mag. I have shot it with him several times at the range. I would have to say its recoil, to me, is not noticeable. It may be due to his Accuracy International stock he has on it. Its actually a pleasure to shoot.
@Elderberry The .223 was done on an AR platform. I had originally considered the .224 Val on the AR platform, I was talked out of it due to availability of ammo. I then began to consider putting a 6.5 Creed upper on my AR for long distance (1,000 +) target. I have a friend that is putting n a 1200 yard range and want to give it a shot. The guy that helped me build the AR suggested the Ruger Predator in 6.5 will get me out to 1,000 yards with out a problem. I like the idea of a bolt action for distance shooting because (in my opinion) you have to take a pause and think about each shot. I have a weatherby bolt action knock off in 30 06 that is adequate, but just adequate. And frankly there is a part of my that wants the satisfaction of saying that I built it myself.
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Online Elderberry

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Re: Army snipers put new, more accurate rifle to the test
« Reply #35 on: March 18, 2019, 07:20:27 pm »
I hadn't heard about the Predator. It looks like a good deal. If the wind is variable, you many not want to pause too long between shots. Were you going to put that 6.5 Creed on an AR10?

Offline verga

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Re: Army snipers put new, more accurate rifle to the test
« Reply #36 on: March 19, 2019, 11:27:41 am »
I hadn't heard about the Predator. It looks like a good deal. If the wind is variable, you many not want to pause too long between shots. Were you going to put that 6.5 Creed on an AR10?
Yes. That seems like the best way to go. Everyone here has given me a lot to think about with the 7mm suggestions.
It will be a while before I can afford to add another rifle to the harem so I am going to do more research and see if I can test fire ones tha friends of mine have.
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
�More than any other time in history, mankind faces a crossroads. One path leads to despair and utter hopelessness. The other, to total extinction. Let us pray we have the wisdom to choose correctly.�-Woody Allen
If God invented marathons to keep people from doing anything more stupid, the triathlon must have taken him completely by surprise.