Author Topic: Trump’s EPA unveils plan to pump up ethanol as Big Oil cries foul  (Read 658 times)

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Offline Smokin Joe

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Trump’s EPA unveils plan to pump up ethanol as Big Oil cries foul

https://energynow.com/2019/03/trumps-epa-unveils-plan-to-pump-up-ethanol-as-big-oil-cries-foul/?source=de&wtv=geology@nemont.net

Quote
The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency on Tuesday released its proposed rule lifting a summer ban on higher-ethanol blends of gasoline to help farmers, putting the agency on a collision course with Big Oil which has called the move illegal.

The proposal to broaden sales of the so-called E15 rule marks the latest flashpoint in an ongoing battle between the corn and oil industries – two crucial constituencies for President Donald Trump – over America’s biofuels policy.

Corn farmers support any move by Washington that would expand their sales into the multibillion-gallon biofuel market, but oil companies dislike the competition and refiners say adding ethanol to their fuel costs them a fortune.

“Consistent with President Trump’s direction, EPA is working to propose and finalize these changes by the summer driving season,” said EPA Administrator Andrew Wheeler in a press release. “We will be holding a public hearing at the end of this month to gather important feedback.”

E15 gasoline contains 15 percent ethanol, versus the 10 percent in most U.S. gasoline.

more at link...
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Trump’s EPA unveils plan to pump up ethanol as Big Oil cries foul
« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2019, 08:06:26 PM »
He promised this in Iowa. It's the one promise I had hoped he would blow off.


(where's the effing wall, hillary in irons, and the ACA repealed, root and branch?)
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression
And I looked, and rose up, and said unto the nobles, and to the rulers, and to the rest of the people, Be not ye afraid of them: remember the Lord, which is great and terrible, and fight for your brethren, your sons, and your daughters, your wives, and your houses. Nehemiah 4:14 (KJV)

About the only "Big" Liberals don't revile is "Big Government"

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: Trump’s EPA unveils plan to pump up ethanol as Big Oil cries foul
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2019, 08:40:31 PM »
I wonder where the Sierra Club and other environmental groups stand on this obvious increase in smog that this change will create?
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Trump’s EPA unveils plan to pump up ethanol as Big Oil cries foul
« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2019, 08:47:35 PM »
I wonder where the Sierra Club and other environmental groups stand on this obvious increase in smog that this change will create?
IIRC, someone did a new study that says the difference isn't that much....(just in time, too) *****rollingeyes***** **nononono*
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression
And I looked, and rose up, and said unto the nobles, and to the rulers, and to the rest of the people, Be not ye afraid of them: remember the Lord, which is great and terrible, and fight for your brethren, your sons, and your daughters, your wives, and your houses. Nehemiah 4:14 (KJV)

About the only "Big" Liberals don't revile is "Big Government"

Offline Bigun

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Re: Trump’s EPA unveils plan to pump up ethanol as Big Oil cries foul
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2019, 08:53:40 PM »
 :facepalm:

Online InHeavenThereIsNoBeer

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Re: Trump’s EPA unveils plan to pump up ethanol as Big Oil cries foul
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2019, 08:56:41 PM »
The article says nothing about mandating more ethanol, just allowing the sale of E15.  Could be good thing if allowing those who want E15 to buy it resulted in less ethanol in E<=10.

No idea what they're thinking with regard to screwing with the production credits market.
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Offline Bigun

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Re: Trump’s EPA unveils plan to pump up ethanol as Big Oil cries foul
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2019, 09:00:36 PM »
The article says nothing about mandating more ethanol, just allowing the sale of E15.  Could be good thing if allowing those who want E15 to buy it resulted in less ethanol in E<=10.

No idea what they're thinking with regard to screwing with the production credits market.

There is no way corn based ethanol is a viable motor fuel without government subsidies and mandates. Period!

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Trump’s EPA unveils plan to pump up ethanol as Big Oil cries foul
« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2019, 09:10:16 PM »
The article says nothing about mandating more ethanol, just allowing the sale of E15.  Could be good thing if allowing those who want E15 to buy it resulted in less ethanol in E<=10.

No idea what they're thinking with regard to screwing with the production credits market.
From November, 2018 https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/policy/energy/ethanol-industry-doubtful-of-epas-good-news-its-increasing-biofuel-mandates

It appears to be an increase in the amount of ethanol that is required to be blended with fuel stocks (regardless of how much fuel is sold). That's why the E15 thing, to permit mixing more ethanol in the fuel. I doubt that the E10 will go away, more likely have more ethanol blended in and sold as a higher octane option.

For those of us who drive older vehicles, though, it mean that we will be stuck buying fuel which would have voided vehicle warranties when the vehicles were produced, and which will likely cause some problems.

To replace my current fleet with new, equivalent, vehicles would cost well over a quarter million dollars.  :shrug:
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression
And I looked, and rose up, and said unto the nobles, and to the rulers, and to the rest of the people, Be not ye afraid of them: remember the Lord, which is great and terrible, and fight for your brethren, your sons, and your daughters, your wives, and your houses. Nehemiah 4:14 (KJV)

About the only "Big" Liberals don't revile is "Big Government"

Online InHeavenThereIsNoBeer

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Re: Trump’s EPA unveils plan to pump up ethanol as Big Oil cries foul
« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2019, 09:22:45 PM »
From November, 2018 https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/policy/energy/ethanol-industry-doubtful-of-epas-good-news-its-increasing-biofuel-mandates

It appears to be an increase in the amount of ethanol that is required to be blended with fuel stocks (regardless of how much fuel is sold). That's why the E15 thing, to permit mixing more ethanol in the fuel. I doubt that the E10 will go away, more likely have more ethanol blended in and sold as a higher octane option.

For those of us who drive older vehicles, though, it mean that we will be stuck buying fuel which would have voided vehicle warranties when the vehicles were produced, and which will likely cause some problems.

To replace my current fleet with new, equivalent, vehicles would cost well over a quarter million dollars.  :shrug:

Well that sucks.

On the bright side, they're building a Wawa near me, so I should have access to E0 without having to drive nearly as far.
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Offline Hoodat

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Re: Trump’s EPA unveils plan to pump up ethanol as Big Oil cries foul
« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2019, 09:27:13 PM »
There is no way corn based ethanol is a viable motor fuel without government subsidies and mandates. Period!

Correctamundo.  Not only can it not compete with gasoline, it can't compete with sugar-based ethanol either.   If only there was a politician - some Senator from Texas perhaps - who would stand on principle and oppose corn-ethanol subsidies.
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Trump’s EPA unveils plan to pump up ethanol as Big Oil cries foul
« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2019, 09:28:29 PM »
Correctamundo.  Not only can it not compete with gasoline, it can't compete with sugar-based ethanol either.   If only there was a politician - some Senator from Texas perhaps - who would stand on principle and oppose corn-ethanol subsidies.
I seem to recall someone like that.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression
And I looked, and rose up, and said unto the nobles, and to the rulers, and to the rest of the people, Be not ye afraid of them: remember the Lord, which is great and terrible, and fight for your brethren, your sons, and your daughters, your wives, and your houses. Nehemiah 4:14 (KJV)

About the only "Big" Liberals don't revile is "Big Government"

Offline Bigun

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Re: Trump’s EPA unveils plan to pump up ethanol as Big Oil cries foul
« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2019, 09:30:15 PM »
Correctamundo.  Not only can it not compete with gasoline, it can't compete with sugar-based ethanol either.   If only there was a politician - some Senator from Texas perhaps - who would stand on principle and oppose corn-ethanol subsidies.

Yeah!  That alone would do it!  /s

Offline corbe

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Re: Trump’s EPA unveils plan to pump up ethanol as Big Oil cries foul
« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2019, 10:01:50 PM »


   Let the Market decide: No Federal Subsidies.

                      (he won Iowa after that)
No government in the 6,000 years of modern mankind history has led its people into anything but the history books with a simple lesson, don't let this happen to you.

Offline catfish1957

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Re: Trump’s EPA unveils plan to pump up ethanol as Big Oil cries foul
« Reply #13 on: March 13, 2019, 10:25:40 PM »



Another outstanding conservative move by the Orange one.  (/s)

sheesh.
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Offline LegalAmerican

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Re: Trump’s EPA unveils plan to pump up ethanol as Big Oil cries foul
« Reply #14 on: March 13, 2019, 11:02:05 PM »
He promised this in Iowa. It's the one promise I had hoped he would blow off.


(where's the effing wall, hillary in irons, and the ACA repealed, root and branch?)


The wall is being built as we speak...Judicial Watch, Jim Jordon, others are working on Hillary crimes...ACA?  YOUR John McCain was the ONE VOTE that stopped a total repeal of ACA. That Rino..did this. THAT IS ALL ON C0NGRESS.   GOP did manage to removed the MANDATE...which was the main issue. Forcing people to buy into that NOT affordable, Hitler/Lenin , NOT about health, health plan. It was to tax us with 19 more taxes, and put in JOB KILLING REGULATIONS.  They were removed too.  Need to see if this is an old thread.  I thought everyone already knew this?  The wall is not a magic wall. Poof...there it is.  Why are you so pissed at my president?  BLAME THE RESISTANCE AND OBSTRUCTIONIST...CONGRESS.
President TRUMP is not a dictator.  Most of you want him to act like one..EXCEPT when you don't want him to act like one.

E.O. on slowing down H-1B visa's. I posted two video's on that too.  Those were put in 1990! People are blaming President TRUMP for that too.  Is it a full moon?  Something in the water?  TROLL SHILLS getting to you all?  DEMON-RATS are stepping up their program to bash president TRUMP..even MORE! 

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« Last Edit: March 13, 2019, 11:16:04 PM by LegalAmerican »

Offline LegalAmerican

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Re: Trump’s EPA unveils plan to pump up ethanol as Big Oil cries foul
« Reply #15 on: March 13, 2019, 11:17:58 PM »
I seem to recall someone like that.


NOPE....just another con artist, professional politician.  People never learn.   Just like those who want socialism.

Online roamer_1

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Re: Trump’s EPA unveils plan to pump up ethanol as Big Oil cries foul
« Reply #16 on: March 13, 2019, 11:21:01 PM »
Friggin idiot.

Offline corbe

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Re: Trump’s EPA unveils plan to pump up ethanol as Big Oil cries foul
« Reply #17 on: March 13, 2019, 11:28:47 PM »


   
No government in the 6,000 years of modern mankind history has led its people into anything but the history books with a simple lesson, don't let this happen to you.

Offline LegalAmerican

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Re: Trump’s EPA unveils plan to pump up ethanol as Big Oil cries foul
« Reply #18 on: March 13, 2019, 11:33:57 PM »
Walk away movement.  Now, DEMON-RATS...are putting out more negative items about TRUMP.  You will have no America if you keep bashing president TRUMP.  He is our last chance.  You have been warned. Blame yourself's when we become like Venezuela.
New York De-Blasio, now mandated a "no meat" day. Too much gas emissions. Following IDIOT AOC.  Demon-rats. This was 3-4-2019.  A whole series of UNTRUTH ABOUT Donald Trump.  CHARLOTTESVILLE  ISSUE..WAS CREATED BY SOROS...BOTH SIDES!
JASON KESSLER, did that for Soros, Just like Jason created O.W.S for SOROS. I know a bit off topic, but one thing leads to another.
It all ties in, bottom line.  Not everything president TRUMP is doing will please everyone!  Suck up time.

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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Trump’s EPA unveils plan to pump up ethanol as Big Oil cries foul
« Reply #19 on: March 14, 2019, 02:47:14 AM »
Walk away movement.  Now, DEMON-RATS...are putting out more negative items about TRUMP.  You will have no America if you keep bashing president TRUMP.  He is our last chance.  You have been warned. Blame yourself's when we become like Venezuela.
New York De-Blasio, now mandated a "no meat" day. Too much gas emissions. Following IDIOT AOC.  Demon-rats. This was 3-4-2019.  A whole series of UNTRUTH ABOUT Donald Trump.  CHARLOTTESVILLE  ISSUE..WAS CREATED BY SOROS...BOTH SIDES!
JASON KESSLER, did that for Soros, Just like Jason created O.W.S for SOROS. I know a bit off topic, but one thing leads to another.
It all ties in, bottom line.  Not everything president TRUMP is doing will please everyone!  Suck up time.

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You are discussing just about anything and everything but what the dumping of another 5% ethanol in fuel will do to the vehicles in use, in America, today.



50 miles out of 1954 is a whopping 2 1/2% of the border. That wall you are jibber-jabbering about with the same old video people have been jibber-jabbering about for a year, is mainly replacement wall, and not even 20 miles of new wall. 
Hillary is contemplating running for POTUS again, not trusty in her cell block.
The ACA may not be as onerous as it was, but it is still alive and well, while I am buying health insurance for others and can't afford it myself.

I want you to consider one other something before you go waving any hero in my face and even thinking about calling ME unAmerican.

WE are our last chance. AMERICANS. Regardless of who is in office, regardless of what laws they make in foggy bottom, regardless of who or what is sent to push those laws down our throat. Regardless what the chattering class says, regardless of the lies the universities are stuffing empty heads with nowadays. We are it. IF you don't think that the people (Soros included) who want to enslave us ALL aren't having fun at seeing every backbiting AT take another swing at an NT, blacks versus whites versus browns, versus whoever came here last month from wherever, legally or not, you are missing the point.

Either WE, AMERICANS, get our collective shit together and realize that we'd best look out for ALL our Rights instead of keep fabricating new injuries to be insulted over, or WE are going to lose this country.

The people who have billions of dollars don't give a rabid rat's ass in the long run because they have enough money it WON'T AFFECT THEM. I'm not in that economic weight class. If my grandchildren are not going to be slaves, it's on me (and them) to prevent it, because the people we sent to Washington to stop that AREN'T DOING THEIR JOB.


But this thread is about requiring American fuel to contain a quantity of alcohol so great that E10 won't blend it all, and the E15 they're talking about is NOT manufacturer approved for use in 155,000,000 of the 235,000,000 vehicles on the road today. Two out of three vehicles out there, that level of ethanol in the fuel would void the warranty.
I reckon that just isn't going to please everyone, but eff up two out of three vehicles? How bad does it have to get?

(And that does not mention every small engine (air cooled, especially) used in everything from outboard motors to chainsaws, to motorcycles, to generators, to lawn care equipment and beyond).

Now the EPA can approve whatever it wants, but that isn't going to help my ass when I'm stuck on the side of a remote road with a failed fuel pump in a blizzard. (Yes, I have been there). It isn't going to repair the engines in the vintage vehicles I own, It won't rebuild my motorcycle engines, but it amounts to shooting my horses and declaring that okay, by government decree.  It won't get my father to shore from a mile out when he's fishing, when the outboard craps out again because of sh*t fuel--a situation as life threatening as me being stuck in the boonies in a blizzard.

All to fulfill his promise to the Iowa corn lobby and 'Big Ag' (Monsanto, ADM, Dekalb, etc). If North Dakota had had a Presidential Primary (The absence of which was the last straw between me and the GOP) I would have happily voted for the guy who said "Let the market decide." on this one issue alone.

But between the bump stock ruling redefining a semi automatic rifle with a bump stock as a machine gun (technically wrong, and overturning an Obama era ruling which said the bump stock was okay and NOT a machine gun), and now crap fuel with vehicle damaging levels of ethanol, he's come after the gun and the pickup, and I have to ask what's next?

The dog? 

We knew he was a city boy, but he is standing squarely on some rural toes, more than the corn lobby will take the hurt out of. Now look at the map and tell me who voted for him.

In the meantime, the border is still being overrun, Hillary is not under indictment or even being credibly investigated, and the sales of veterinary antibiotics are up as people do their own doctoring on the cheap because they can't afford not to.

We will have no AMERICA if we trust someone else to take care of business for us without even looking at what they are and are not doing.

That complacency is how the Republicans skated through years without lifting a finger or doing the wrong thing, excused because, well, they at least were not as bad as the Democrats. That's a pretty limp pole to hang your standard on.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2019, 02:51:55 AM by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression
And I looked, and rose up, and said unto the nobles, and to the rulers, and to the rest of the people, Be not ye afraid of them: remember the Lord, which is great and terrible, and fight for your brethren, your sons, and your daughters, your wives, and your houses. Nehemiah 4:14 (KJV)

About the only "Big" Liberals don't revile is "Big Government"

Online roamer_1

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Re: Trump’s EPA unveils plan to pump up ethanol as Big Oil cries foul
« Reply #20 on: March 14, 2019, 06:36:41 PM »
We will have no AMERICA if we trust someone else to take care of business for us without even looking at what they are and are not doing.

That complacency is how the Republicans skated through years without lifting a finger or doing the wrong thing, excused because, well, they at least were not as bad as the Democrats. That's a pretty limp pole to hang your standard on.

BUMP THAT. Great post Joe.  :beer:

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Re: Trump’s EPA unveils plan to pump up ethanol as Big Oil cries foul
« Reply #21 on: March 14, 2019, 07:13:29 PM »
Bad Trump. Ethanol is a subsidy to farmers that bleep up small engines.
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Offline Elderberry

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Re: Trump’s EPA unveils plan to pump up ethanol as Big Oil cries foul
« Reply #22 on: March 15, 2019, 08:58:46 AM »
Correctamundo.  Not only can it not compete with gasoline, it can't compete with sugar-based ethanol either.   If only there was a politician - some Senator from Texas perhaps - who would stand on principle and oppose corn-ethanol subsidies.

You do know that ethanol from corn is "sugar-based ethanol". There are other crops with more yield for producing sugar-based ethanol, such as sugar beets, sugarcane, cassava, and sweet sorghum.
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Offline Bigun

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Re: Trump’s EPA unveils plan to pump up ethanol as Big Oil cries foul
« Reply #23 on: March 15, 2019, 09:21:36 AM »
You do know that ethanol from corn is "sugar-based ethanol". There are other crops with more yield for producing sugar-based ethanol, such as sugar beets, sugarcane, cassava, and sweet sorghum.

And many sources that are not food!  Switchgrass being but one.  But NONE of them can remotely compete with gasoline or diesel as motor fuels in a marketplace free of government intervention.  Not even close.

Offline Hoodat

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Re: Trump’s EPA unveils plan to pump up ethanol as Big Oil cries foul
« Reply #24 on: March 15, 2019, 02:41:28 PM »
You do know that ethanol from corn is "sugar-based ethanol". There are other crops with more yield for producing sugar-based ethanol, such as sugar beets, sugarcane, cassava, and sweet sorghum.
@Elderberry

By 'sugar', I mean 'sucrose' - not simple carbohydrates in general.  Corn is not used to create refined sugar (C12H22O11).  In a free market, sugarcane will always beat out corn as the most cost-efficient way to produce ethanol.  Which is why Brazil leads the world in ethanol exports.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2019, 02:42:08 PM by Hoodat »
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