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Author Topic: Trump’s EPA unveils plan to pump up ethanol as Big Oil cries foul  (Read 2938 times)

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Online Hoodat

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Re: Trump’s EPA unveils plan to pump up ethanol as Big Oil cries foul
« Reply #25 on: March 15, 2019, 06:43:52 pm »
Quote from: Bigun on March 15, 2019, 01:21:36 pm
But NONE of them can remotely compete with gasoline or diesel as motor fuels in a marketplace free of government intervention.  Not even close.
@Bigun

When it comes to picking winners and losers, our government has an uncanny propensity for choosing the latter.  Ethanol is inferior in every way - price, quality, chemical properties, transport, etc.  And even with those insisting on ethanol, we would be better off buying directly from Brazil than producing our own.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2019, 06:48:24 pm by Hoodat »
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Online Smokin Joe

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Re: Trump’s EPA unveils plan to pump up ethanol as Big Oil cries foul
« Reply #26 on: March 15, 2019, 07:00:26 pm »
Quote from: Hoodat on March 15, 2019, 06:43:52 pm
@Bigun

When it comes to picking winners and losers, our government has an uncanny propensity for choosing the latter.  Ethanol is inferior in every way - price, quality, chemical properties, transport, etc.  And even with those insisting on ethanol, we would be better off buying directly from Brazil than producing our own.
We do. We imported 77 million gallons of ethanol from Brazil, but are a net exporter of the stuff.

http://ethanolproducer.com/articles/15021/us-exported-a-record-1-37-billion-gallons-of-ethanol-in-2017
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Offline thackney

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Re: Trump’s EPA unveils plan to pump up ethanol as Big Oil cries foul
« Reply #27 on: March 15, 2019, 07:35:12 pm »
Quote from: Bigun on March 15, 2019, 01:21:36 pm
And many sources that are not food!  Switchgrass being but one.  But NONE of them can remotely compete with gasoline or diesel as motor fuels in a marketplace free of government intervention.  Not even close.

Switchgrass does not produce sugar.  It was billed to use for ethanol for a process that takes much more energy to work from cellulose.
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Online catfish1957

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Re: Trump’s EPA unveils plan to pump up ethanol as Big Oil cries foul
« Reply #28 on: March 15, 2019, 07:54:31 pm »
Quote from: thackney on March 15, 2019, 07:35:12 pm
Switchgrass does not produce sugar.  It was billed to use for ethanol for a process that takes much more energy to work from cellulose.

I know a number of years ago ,spent sugar cane stalks were being evaluated for bio-fuel.  Haven't heard much since, so it guess it didn't pan out.
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Offline Bigun

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Re: Trump’s EPA unveils plan to pump up ethanol as Big Oil cries foul
« Reply #29 on: March 15, 2019, 08:02:09 pm »
Quote from: thackney on March 15, 2019, 07:35:12 pm
Switchgrass does not produce sugar.  It was billed to use for ethanol for a process that takes much more energy to work from cellulose.

And that is the problem with using ANY of this stuff to produce fuels!  It takes more energy to produce than the energy you get back!
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Offline Free Vulcan

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Re: Trump’s EPA unveils plan to pump up ethanol as Big Oil cries foul
« Reply #30 on: March 15, 2019, 10:46:51 pm »
Quote from: Bigun on March 14, 2019, 01:00:36 am
There is no way corn based ethanol is a viable motor fuel without government subsidies and mandates. Period!

Not the way the market functions now, you are correct. Ethanol is struggling out here. The whole industry structure is a dang dinosaur.
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Offline Elderberry

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Re: Trump’s EPA unveils plan to pump up ethanol as Big Oil cries foul
« Reply #31 on: March 16, 2019, 02:49:15 pm »
Quote from: Hoodat on March 15, 2019, 06:41:28 pm
@Elderberry

By 'sugar', I mean 'sucrose' - not simple carbohydrates in general.  Corn is not used to create refined sugar (C12H22O11).  In a free market, sugarcane will always beat out corn as the most cost-efficient way to produce ethanol.  Which is why Brazil leads the world in ethanol exports.
@Hoodat

You'll just have to excuse me. My Organic Chemistry Major does that to me. Words have meanings. I get too anal that way. So I see that corn is used to create "refined sugar"(glucose). (C6H12O6)
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Online Hoodat

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Re: Trump’s EPA unveils plan to pump up ethanol as Big Oil cries foul
« Reply #32 on: March 16, 2019, 06:42:55 pm »
Quote from: Elderberry on March 16, 2019, 02:49:15 pm
@Hoodat

You'll just have to excuse me. My Organic Chemistry Major does that to me. Words have meanings. I get too anal that way.

@Elderberry

No problem from this end.  I have learned to appreciate 'anal'.  Also have a strong love for chemistry, although 'organic' is a completely different animal.  I still have nightmares of the 'wheel of death' which is something a professor came up with to show 15 different things that could be done with cyclopentene.



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If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

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Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Re: Trump’s EPA unveils plan to pump up ethanol as Big Oil cries foul
« Reply #33 on: March 16, 2019, 11:19:56 pm »
Quote from: Hoodat on March 16, 2019, 06:42:55 pm
@Elderberry
 I have learned to appreciate 'anal'.

Frank Cannon, a forum turns it's lonely eyes to you.
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Online Hoodat

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Re: Trump’s EPA unveils plan to pump up ethanol as Big Oil cries foul
« Reply #34 on: March 16, 2019, 11:31:58 pm »
Quote from: Weird Tolkienish Figure on March 16, 2019, 11:19:56 pm
Frank Cannon, a forum turns it's lonely eyes to you.

It may require some tasteful nude selfies to get him back, Roos.
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If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-

Online Smokin Joe

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Re: Trump’s EPA unveils plan to pump up ethanol as Big Oil cries foul
« Reply #35 on: March 17, 2019, 04:49:35 am »
Quote from: Hoodat on March 16, 2019, 11:31:58 pm
It may require some tasteful nude selfies to get him back, Roos.
I don't think that's Roos....
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How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Online Hoodat

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Re: Trump’s EPA unveils plan to pump up ethanol as Big Oil cries foul
« Reply #36 on: March 17, 2019, 02:21:21 pm »
Quote from: Smokin Joe on March 17, 2019, 04:49:35 am
I don't think that's Roos....

Gee, you're right.  I went by the avatar and didn't even look at the name.
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If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-
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