TV actresses among 40 people charged in college entrance exam cheating plot

[sneakypete]

Well, sure.  That's the same rationale a thief uses to steal a car they can't afford.   "Why should only rich people get to drive something like that."

@Maj. Bill Martin

Are you seriously comparing serious college applicants with hood rats?

[Maj. Bill Martin]

@Maj. Bill Martin
@sneakypete

Are you seriously comparing serious college applicants with hood rats?

No, I'm comparing the lack of importance you apparently attach to ownership rights with that of a thief.  Nor do I believe that theft is limited to "hood rats".

The individual employee who takes a bribe is stealing from the company/university.  That's why those people are being prosecuted criminally like the thieves they are.  No different from bribing an employee of an electronics store to slip you a TV for $300 rather than paying the $1000 charged by the store.

Again, if some ridiculously rich guy gifts a university $5M for a new research center so that their kid gets into that school, where's the harm?  A large donation like that benefits all the other students who get the benefit of that research center without having to pay higher tuition to fund it.  Donations like that permit a school to afford to let in both the rich kid and a merit-based student.  But when the rich kid gets let into college solely because of a bribe to an individual university employee, nobody benefits except the crooked university employee who took the bribe, and the kid.  There is no larger benefit to the school in which other students can share.

It's like the TV -- nobody else is harmed just because the rich guy can afford to buy a $1000 TV.  But if the store employee gives away that TV for a $300 bribe, then the other customers are going to end up paying more in the long haul because of that theft.

[sneakypete]

No, I'm comparing the lack of importance you apparently attach to ownership rights with that of a thief.  Nor do I believe that theft is limited to "hood rats".

The individual employee who takes a bribe is stealing from the company/university.  That's why those people are being prosecuted criminally like the thieves they are.  No different from bribing an employee of an electronics store to slip you a TV for $300 rather than paying the $1000 charged by the store.

Again, if some ridiculously rich guy gifts a university $5M for a new research center so that their kid gets into that school, where's the harm?  A large donation like that benefits all the other students who get the benefit of that research center without having to pay higher tuition to fund it.  Donations like that permit a school to afford to let in both the rich kid and a merit-based student.  But when the rich kid gets let into college solely because of a bribe to an individual university employee, nobody benefits except the crooked university employee who took the bribe, and the kid.  There is no larger benefit to the school in which other students can share.

It's like the TV -- nobody else is harmed just because the rich guy can afford to buy a $1000 TV.  But if the store employee gives away that TV for a $300 bribe, then the other customers are going to end up paying more in the long haul because of that theft.

@Maj. Bill Martin

Apples and oranges. These privileged children are getting sports scholarships,not academic scholarships. Even then they are in "sports" nobody cars about. If you want to see an uproar,have them start getting basketball or football scholarships,and then watch the schools start burning to the ground.

No harm is done to any actual human or student.

[InHeavenThereIsNoBeer]

One thing that I hope does not get lost in this story, is the bottom line that there is a terrible gaming of the higher education system, and the "REAL" losers are the ones who get bumped from consideration.  NOW....add the fact that Elizabeth Warren basically did the same thing, lying about heritage to get into Harvard.  Beleive me.......    There was a very deserving talented Native American who lost their spot to the school for her actions.   The nation can not forget this.

If that person was very deserving and talented, they would have won a position based on merit, without needing to rely on ethnic background.  SOMEONE more qualified didn't get a spot because it was reserved based on race and lizzy lied to get it.

[goatprairie]

There's a huge difference.

Schools admit legacies and people from rich families because admitting those kids usually means the school makes a lot more money.  And that's money that is used to maintain facilities, build dorms, etc..  Essentially, taking in the rich kids whose parents make donations helps keeps costs down for other kids.  It may not be "fair", but nobody is really losing out.

What these parents did was bribe individual employees.  So rather than the money going into the pockets of the university as a whole, it went in to the pockets of individual employees who kept it for their own benefit.  It's the difference between paying the airline more for a first class seat, and having first class seats taken by bribes to individual employees of the airline.

Wouldn't any students taken in by a corrupt school employee still bear some examination by other school officials?
I can't believe that many people in the school admin don't know about  corrupt coaches but still tolerate them.
Obviously, tennis and field hockey aren't huge draws, but the rich people getting their kids on the team are still more likely to contribute to the school even while paying off the coach.
And if you're a legitimate member of whatever school team, would you keep silent about some team member you know is totally inadequate?
Whatever the situation, my point is that however some qualified kids are passed over for whatever reason, their lives aren't ruined.
That's just the way things are. We try to make things fair knowing it will never be perfectly fair.
It's better for people to learn to deal with disappointments and get back on the horse.

[musiclady]

There's a huge difference.

Schools admit legacies and people from rich families because admitting those kids usually means the school makes a lot more money.  And that's money that is used to maintain facilities, build dorms, etc..  Essentially, taking in the rich kids whose parents make donations helps keeps costs down for other kids.  It may not be "fair", but nobody is really losing out.

What these parents did was bribe individual employees.  So rather than the money going into the pockets of the university as a whole, it went in to the pockets of individual employees who kept it for their own benefit.  It's the difference between paying the airline more for a first class seat, and having first class seats taken by bribes to individual employees of the airline.

Excellent points.

This is bribery.  This is a crime.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

@Maj. Bill Martin

Apples and oranges. These privileged children are getting sports scholarships,not academic scholarships. Even then they are in "sports" nobody cars about. If you want to see an uproar,have them start getting basketball or football scholarships,and then watch the schools start burning to the ground.

So what?  Schools do not give out unlimited athletic scholarships either.  Some other girl who worked off her butt to try to earn an athletic scholarship didn't get one because of this scam.

No harm is done to any actual human or student.

As I pointed out, someone else didn't get an athletic scholarship because of this, so that's not true.

But even if nobody else missed out, it's still theft.  It is an employee of the school illegally using their position for private gain, taking a bribe to give one of the school's athletic scholarships to one of these girls.  Or are you normally okay with employees stealing from their employers?

[Maj. Bill Martin]

And if you're a legitimate member of whatever school team, would you keep silent about some team member you know is totally inadequate?

What happened was that the girls were admitted based on a representation that they were great athletes deserving of a scholarship.  That got them past the usual standards for admission, plus a scholarship.  Once going to school, they then "decided" not to participate in the sport.  That lost them the scholarship, but they kept the fraudulent admission themselves.  So nobody else ever saw them play (or row, in this case) to expose the hoax.

Whatever the situation, my point is that however some qualified kids are passed over for whatever reason, their lives aren't ruined.
That's just the way things are. We try to make things fair knowing it will never be perfectly fair.
It's better for people to learn to deal with disappointments and get back on the horse.

How the other kids who didn't get admitted deal with that is a completely separate issue from the clear criminal fraud committed by the coaches and parents.

[DCPatriot]

So what?  Schools do not give out unlimited athletic scholarships either.  Some other girl who worked off her butt to try to earn an athletic scholarship didn't get one because of this scam.

As I pointed out, someone else didn't get an athletic scholarship because of this, so that's not true.

But even if it was true, it's still theft.  It is an employee of the school illegally using their position for private gain, taking a bribe to give one of the school's athletic scholarships to one of these girls.  Or are you normally okay with employees stealing from their employers?

The Naval Academy in Annapolis, Maryland.   It takes a letter of recommendation from your Congressman for consideration.

A 4.0 grade average and $2.00 will get you a large coffee at the 7-11.

Since a politician is involved here, I wonder how they would fare under white glove inspection?

[Maj. Bill Martin]

The Naval Academy in Annapolis, Maryland.   It takes a letter of recommendation from your Congressman for consideration.

I know.  That's how I got in.  But...

A 4.0 grade average and $2.00 will get you a large coffee at the 7-11.

Since a politician is involved here, I wonder how they would fare under white glove inspection?

I don't quite understand the point you're trying to make. 

[goatprairie]

What happened was that the girls were admitted based on a representation that they were great athletes deserving of a scholarship.  That got them past the usual standards for admission, plus a scholarship.  Once going to school, they then "decided" not to participate in the sport.  That lost them the scholarship, but they kept the fraudulent admission themselves.  So nobody else ever saw them play (or row, in this case) to expose the hoax.

How the other kids who didn't get admitted deal with that is a completely separate issue from the clear criminal fraud committed by the coaches and parents.

I'm not against punishing the people involved with the fraud. I'm just saying the kids, who lost a spot because some rich kid got in from bribes, lives weren't ruined. It's hard for me to feel real sorry.  I would bet the kids who got aced out will still do real well in life.
I'm totally not shocked that this stuff is going on. Maybe it's not fair to kids who lost positions because their parents couldn't bribe school people/coaches, but that's life. 

[DCPatriot]

I know.  That's how I got in.  But...

I don't quite understand the point you're trying to make. 

That it's probably no secret that donations to campaigns are involved in some of the many thousands of Naval Academy student classes.

Corruption? 

Is somebody cheated out of a chance to attend because their family didn't have any political clout or $$$?   

[Smokin Joe]

I'm not against punishing the people involved with the fraud. I'm just saying the kids, who lost a spot because some rich kid got in from bribes, lives weren't ruined. It's hard for me to feel real sorry.  I would bet the kids who got aced out will still do real well in life.
I'm totally not shocked that this stuff is going on. Maybe it's not fair to kids who lost positions because their parents couldn't bribe school people/coaches, but that's life.

Yeah. They could always row on the Community College crew.

(They was robbed!)

[Maj. Bill Martin]

That it's probably no secret that donations to campaigns are involved in some of the many thousands of Naval Academy student classes. Corruption? 
Is somebody cheated out of a chance to attend because their family didn't have any political clout or $$$?   

Here's the thing....

I'm sure that there have been some nominations that happened because of political favors/relationships.  But each member of Congress gets to have a maximum of up to 5 students attending any one service academy at a given time.  And for each vacancy less than that 5, they get to make 10 nominations.  Which means the Academies have somewhere around 10 nominated applicants for each one actual appointment given out.  It is getting the actual appointment that is truly competitive.  A nomination just gives you the right to submit an application -- nothing more. And if you were the 9th or 10th most qualified person, bumped off because that member of Congress decided to hand out a political nomination, you weren't going to get an actual appointment anyway.

In other words, someone who was nominated as a political favor but is otherwise substandard basically has a ticket to getting a "thanks but no thanks" response from the Admissions Committee.  I'm on a Congressional nominating committee -- lots of members of Congress put together citizen panels to recommend nominations in their district, and the panels usually consist largely of Academy grads.  But you really can't game/politicize the system on the Congressional end of things, because it's the Admissions Committee at each Academy that actually makes those decisions.

[Sanguine]

I guess all of us who got into college on our merits can note that on our resumes from now on.

"Merit scholar and 4.0 GPA entrant into the University of Wherever."  Or, "not a cheater entrant".  Probably could be better said, but that's the idea.

[DCPatriot]

I guess all of us who got into college on our merits can note that on our resumes from now on.

"Merit scholar and 4.0 GPA entrant into the University of Wherever."  Or, "not a cheater entrant".  Probably could be better said, but that's the idea.

"4.0 grade average, junior fellow....and I dint know anybody!"   

[mountaineer]

APRIL 4 update

Starstruck Boston welcomes Hollywood stars to federal courthouse
By Laurel J. Sweet
 Boston Herald
PUBLISHED: April 3, 2019 at 11:55 am | UPDATED: April 4, 2019 at 6:44 am

In what could prove the most pivotal close ups of their careers, actresses Felicity Huffman and Lori Loughlin drew throngs of fans and paparazzi to Boston’s federal district court Wednesday, but did not share so much as a polite glance at their initial appearances as co-defendants in the blockbuster college admissions cheating scandal.

“Have a nice day,” a smiling and tanned Loughlin told a Herald reporter who stopped her for comment soon after she stole the show in U.S. District Magistrate Judge M. Page Kelley’s courtroom by cheerfully introducing herself to and shaking the hands of prosecutors. ...

Huffman, dressed in a black pantsuit and ruffled emerald blouse, appeared ill at ease by comparison as onlookers crowded and gaped at the former “Desperate Housewives” star inside the heavily guarded courthouse. ...

The actresses, Giannulli and co-defendants Gordon Caplan, husband and wife Manuel and Elizabeth Henriquez, Toby MacFarlane, John Wilson, Bruce Isackson and Homayoun Zadeh are currently charged in a criminal complaint with conspiracy to commit mail and wire fraud punishable by up to 20 years in federal prison. They were not arraigned as U.S. Attorney Andrew E. Lelling’s office is still within the 30-day window to file grand jury indictments.

They have had their passports seized, are banned from international travel without the permission of their probation officers and cannot touch marijuana because it remains illegal under federal law.

“I’m going to ask everyone not to have firearms in their house,” Kelley added. “Just get them out of your house.” ...

More at Boston Herald

[mountaineer]

Associated Press:

BOSTON (AP) — A packaged-food entrepreneur from California became the first of the 33 parents charged in the college bribery scandal to agree to plead guilty, disclosing the deal Wednesday as Hollywood actresses Felicity Huffman and Lori Loughlin appeared in court along with some of the other defendants.  ...

Sartorio, the founder of an organic frozen-food company, did not appear in court Wednesday, and it was not clear when the Menlo Park, California, businessman would plead guilty. His lawyers did not immediately reply to an email for comment. ...

More

[mountaineer]

The Admission Scam Is Another Reason To Destroy Academia As We Know It
Kurt Schlichter
Posted: Apr 04, 2019 12:01 AM

American college is terrible and, as a society, we should stop doing it – at least how it is being currently done. The greatest benefit of a system where most citizens are pushed to get college educations, whether they truly need and want one or not, would be a society of really smart, informed, and engaged citizens. Do you see that happening?

No, you do not.

Instead, we have a bunch of people who are dragged down by crushing debt after wasting years of their youth chasing a piece of paper that often has no relationship to these graduates’ futures. Compounding the failure is how these grads march off campus infatuated with ridiculous commie notions abhorrent to a free people. The college system is a disaster – an expensive disaster that picks our pockets as well as those of the suckers who matriculate – and we should stop tolerating it.  ...

The college admission scandal, where a herd of rich Democrat donors paid a ton of dough to get their half-wit progeny into Snooty U, was the perfect encapsulation of how big a rip-off college really is. Did you notice how the parents forked over cash to get Junior into school because Junior scored 112 on his SAT and then…Junior stayed in the elite school with no problem? You might think that if these schools were rigorous institutions of higher learning instead of ruling class credential rubber-stump machines, they might flunk out? But no.  ...

Entire article

[mountaineer]

April 8 UPDATE

New York Times reporter tweets:

Kate Taylor   Verified account @katetaylornyt

Felicity Huffman and 12 other parents have agreed to plead guilty in the college admissions fraud case, the Justice Department says
2:59 PM - 8 Apr 2019

Link to NYT story

[mountaineer]

... "I am in full acceptance of my guilt, and with deep regret and shame over what I have done, I accept full responsibility for my actions and will accept the consequences that stem from those actions," Huffman said in a statement obtained by ABC News. "I am ashamed of the pain I have caused my daughter, my family, my friends, my colleagues and the educational community." ...

More at ABC News