Author Topic: Trump Was Right To Walk Away From The Table. But His Overall North Korean Strategy Is A Debacle  (Read 1187 times)

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Offline QueenCatofAragon

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Trump Was Right To Walk Away From The Table. But His Overall North Korean Strategy Is A Debacle.

By Ben Shapiro

2/28/19


On Thursday, President Trump abruptly cut short his planned diplomatic triumph with North Korean dictator Kim Jung Un after Kim made clear he had no plans to denuclearize, and that he wanted all sanctions against his evil regime removed. Trump explained, “Sometimes you have to walk,” adding, “It was about the sanctions. Basically they wanted the sanctions lifted in their entirety, but we couldn’t do that.”

Trump was right to walk. Of course Trump should have walked away from the table – he had no other choice, given that Kim wasn’t going to give up his nuclear program, and wanted the world in return. That isn’t hard-nosed negotiating on Trump’s part. That’s mere refusal to utterly abandon any sensible North Korean policy. Let’s not grade on a curve here.

Read more at:

https://www.dailywire.com/news/44085/trump-was-right-walk-away-table-his-overall-north-ben-shapiro
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Offline Absalom

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Journo is a moron.
Trump's message was to China as NK is a rock pile north of Parallel 38!!!
« Last Edit: March 01, 2019, 06:14:59 am by Absalom »

Offline QueenCatofAragon

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Journo is a moron.
Trump's message was to China as NK is a rock pile north of Parallel 38!!!

@Absalom

Yep, it’s well known that Shapiro is a moron.
I say this to Beto fans, Trump fans, all fans of politicians: it is un-American, ridiculous, and dangerous to be a fan of a politician. They aren't pop stars. Support them if you agree with their policies. Criticize them when they go wrong. They are servants, not celebrities. —— Matt Walsh

Online rustynail

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Ben comes up short.

Offline QueenCatofAragon

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Ben comes up short.

That one was old when TOS rolled it out.
I say this to Beto fans, Trump fans, all fans of politicians: it is un-American, ridiculous, and dangerous to be a fan of a politician. They aren't pop stars. Support them if you agree with their policies. Criticize them when they go wrong. They are servants, not celebrities. —— Matt Walsh

Offline Sanguine

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I like and respect Shapiro, but we won't know if Trump's strategy works until we can look back on it.  Ben is jumping the gun on this one.

Offline skeeter

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Journo is a moron.
Trump's message was to China as NK is a rock pile north of Parallel 38!!!

Gratuitous criticism from someone who probably feels he hasn't been sufficiently critical of the president lately.

There are several options with N Korea - 1) maintain the status quo 2) launch a military strike 3) negotiate.

Option 3) requires the president sit down with Kim.



Offline EdJames

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I like and respect Shapiro, but we won't know if Trump's strategy works until we can look back on it.  Ben is jumping the gun on this one.

Awful lot of that going around lately.  What ever happened to being patient and letting these types of event/decisions play out to fruition over the fullness of time?

Online mystery-ak

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I like and respect Shapiro, but we won't know if Trump's strategy works until we can look back on it.  Ben is jumping the gun on this one.

Yep...too early to tell, let's see what happens.
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Offline Sanguine

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Awful lot of that going around lately.  What ever happened to being patient and letting these types of event/decisions play out to fruition over the fullness of time?

Probably several factors: it's the time we live in where we expect everything immediately, Trump is a divisive figure* whose character encourages people to make snap judgements, and the times are very divisive, and people tend to be firmly entrenched and far from the middle. 


* Not slamming Trump here, just stating the fact that he is seen as divisive.

Offline EdJames

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Probably several factors: it's the time we live in where we expect everything immediately, Trump is a divisive figure* whose character encourages people to make snap judgements, and the times are very divisive, and people tend to be firmly entrenched and far from the middle. 


* Not slamming Trump here, just stating the fact that he is seen as divisive.

Very good points @Sanguine   

I also think that the droning 24x7 news coverage contributes.

As far as his divisiveness, all of the clear trolling that he does on Twitter and elsewhere certainly contributes to that!

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Awful lot of that going around lately.  What ever happened to being patient and letting these types of event/decisions play out to fruition over the fullness of time?

This summit, like so many things with Trump, is set up as a "Heads I win, tails you lose" scenario.  If he struck a "deal," it would be reported as "Trump fell for a con from a bloodthirsty cheater!"  Since he did not, it's "Trump is a failure at 'the art of the deal!'"
« Last Edit: March 01, 2019, 03:20:21 pm by Cyber Liberty »
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Offline EdJames

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This summit, like so many things with Trump, is set up as a "Heads I win, tails you lose" scenario.  If he struck a "deal," it would be reported as "Trump fell for a con from a bloodthirsty cheater!"  Since he did not, it's "Trump is a failure at 'the art of the deal!'"

Yes!  I suspect that the editorial staffs have content prepared for the "Heads I win, tails you lose" scenarios well in advance.  Heck, they may have had to bring in additional resources to be sure that they have both version nailed down!

Offline Absalom

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Gratuitous criticism from someone who probably feels he hasn't been sufficiently critical of the president lately.

There are several options with N Korea - 1) maintain the status quo 2) launch a military strike 3) negotiate.

Option 3) requires the president sit down with Kim.
--------------------------------------------
Er......................I own my opinions and accept full responsibility for them.
As such, I regularly harp on Trump's perceived shortcomings as a leader, such as
his inability to discern character in those he appoints and surrounds himself with.
And when he does well I recognize that and applaud.
As for NK, an absurd theme circulated by journos and some posters is that NK is
of importance, which confers rank and status on them, they neither deserve nor
have earned; a notion which is too dumb for words.
Such an absurdity is the consequence of the loss of historical perspective which
plagues our governance. So lets take a short trip.
The first great clash of the 20th century involved the Empires of Japan and Russia
in 1904; ending w/the treaty of Portsmouth, NH which was directed by Teddy Roosevelt.
During that War, Japan sank the Russian Eastern Fleet in the Straight of Tsushima,
a major catalyst in the overthrow of the Romanov Dynasty, a decade later.
Japan also occupied the Korean Peninsula; halting the advance of Russia's Trans-Siberian
Railway at Port Arthur; an occupation which continued until 1945.
During that period, the center of gravity in Korea was Seoul, the land north of the
38th parallel being a barren rock pile devoid of resources; as it remains today.
That occupation produced an emotional attachment between South Korea and Japan
which still persists to our time.
In contrast, North Korea, which was created in 1948, gravitated toward China,
particularly after the rise of Communism in the thirties.
What are the realities of the Conference in Hanoi?
* Japan remains the ranking power on the Pacific Rim.
* Trump walking away, was a message to China far more than NK.
* NK, despite nukes and rockets, cannot survive economically (it's Asia's Venezuela).


« Last Edit: March 01, 2019, 08:40:07 pm by Absalom »

Offline aligncare

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Probably several factors: it's the time we live in where we expect everything immediately, Trump is a divisive figure* whose character encourages people to make snap judgements, and the times are very divisive, and people tend to be firmly entrenched and far from the middle. 


* Not slamming Trump here, just stating the fact that he is seen as divisive.

President Trump is seen as divisive only because the national media has framed him as such. They also say things like, Trump is manufacturing a crisis at the border.

Well, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez can say we are all going to be dead in 12 years due to climate change, yet no one from the national media has ever accused her of manufacturing a crisis.

The media has the power to frame and control the discussion – they set the table.

Therefore I refuse to accept their narrative as the truth. Donald Trump is not the divisive one. We know who the divisive ones are and what they really stand for.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2019, 07:22:49 pm by aligncare »

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“He likes me. I like him. Some people say ‘oh, you shouldn't like him.’ I said, ‘why shouldn't I like him? I like him'."---President Tweety about Kim Jong-un.

Because Kim is at the head of a Communist tyranny, a gulag state, the worst place in the world for people to live. Murder, torture, and starvation are the lot of countless North Koreans. The U.S. should stand for freedom.---Jay Nordlinger, National Review.


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Offline Cyber Liberty

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President Trump is seen as divisive only because the national media has framed him as such. They also say things like, Trump is manufacturing a crisis at the border.

Well, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez can say we are all going to be dead in 12 years due to climate change, yet no one from the national media has ever accused her of manufacturing a crisis.

The media has the power to frame and control the discussion – they set the table.

Therefore I refuse to accept their narrative as the truth. Donald Trump is not the divisive one. We know who the divisive ones are and what they really stand for.

Seems to me being "divisive" would be a big handicap for a "populist." 333cleo
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Offline skeeter

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--------------------------------------------
Er......................I own my opinions and accept full responsibility for them.
As such, I regularly harp on Trump's perceived shortcomings as a leader, such as
his inability to discern character in those he appoints and surrounds himself with.
And when he does well I recognize that and applaud.
As for NK, an absurd theme circulated by journos and some posters is that NK is
of importance, which confers rank and status on them, they neither deserve nor
have earned; a notion which is too dumb for words.
Such an absurdity is the consequence of the loss of historical perspective which
plagues our governance. So lets take a short trip.
The first great clash of the 20th century involved the Empires of Japan and Russia
in 1904; ending w/the treaty of Portsmouth, NH which was directed by Teddy Roosevelt.
During that War, Japan sank the Russian Eastern Fleet in the Straight of Tsushima,
a major catalyst in the overthrow of the Romanov Dynasty, a decade later.
Japan also occupied the Korean Peninsula; halting the advance of Russia's Trans-Siberian
Railway at Port Arthur; an occupation which continued until 1945.
During that period, the center of gravity in Korea was Seoul, the land north of the
38th parallel being a barren rock pile devoid of resources; as it remains today.
That occupation produced an emotional attachment between South Korea and Japan
which still persists to our time.
In contrast, North Korea, which was created in 1948, gravitated toward China,
particularly after the rise of Communism in the thirties.
What are the realities of the Conference in Hanoi?
* Japan remains the ranking power on the Pacific Rim.
* Trump walking away, was a message to China far more than NK.
* NK, despite nukes and rockets, cannot survive economically (it's Asia's Venezuela).

Your history lesson left out a rather significant period concerning North Korea, the US and a state of war that persists today.

DPRK was recently flinging missiles over Japan, and several month's ago was at the center of a fake missile threat that had Hawaii's panties in a bunch. They haven't been shy about the aims of their missile program.

This confers importance on them they might not deserve, but reality demands. Ignoring the threat would be dumb in the extreme.

« Last Edit: March 01, 2019, 10:38:45 pm by skeeter »

Offline TomSea

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Japan still relies on us, rightfully or wrongfully, to try to assure peace in that area. We are the ranking power in the Pacific rim. Sheesh.  Or China, if one can say them. The big powers are struggling it out.

Japan is militarily limited as to how much force they can have.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2019, 11:05:24 pm by TomSea »

Offline TomSea

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Good article by Shapiro. I don't think he knows all of the facets involved in negotiations but a thoughtful contribution nonetheless. He probably has a column that he needs to churn out. I don't think it was a debacle. A lot we don't know.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2019, 11:16:56 pm by TomSea »

Offline Absalom

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Your history lesson left out a rather significant period concerning North Korea, the US and a state of war that persists today.

DPRK was recently flinging missiles over Japan, and several month's ago was at the center of a fake missile threat that had Hawaii's panties in a bunch. They haven't been shy about the aims of their missile program.

This confers importance on them they might not deserve, but reality demands. Ignoring the threat would be dumb in the
---------------------------------------
The Korean War lasted 3 years, ending in 1953, when NK and China had their ass handed to them.
The only 'state of war' that persists is in the fevered imagination of assorted State Dept flunkies
and journos needing something to write about. The Peninsula as been essentially calm for 65 years.

Offline Cyber Liberty

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---------------------------------------
The Korean War lasted 3 years, ending in 1953, when NK and China had their ass handed to them.
The only 'state of war' that persists is in the fevered imagination of assorted State Dept flunkies
and journos needing something to write about. The Peninsula as been essentially calm for 65 years.

I've heard tell that there is no illegal immigration emergency on the border, either.  It's all made up.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline Absalom

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Japan still relies on us, rightfully or wrongfully, to try to assure peace in that area. We are the ranking power in the Pacific rim. Sheesh.  Or China, if one can say them. The big powers are struggling it out.

Japan is militarily limited as to how much force they can have.
----------------------------------------------
The Pacific Rim is in East Asia, as defined by geographers, and we are Not on it!!!
At least China is no longer constructing warships built w/Blue Marble.
Japan is self-limited and can change that restraint, whenever it chooses.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2019, 06:06:43 pm by Absalom »