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Is a Second Civil War Coming?
« on: February 28, 2019, 02:47:58 pm »
February 28, 2019
Is a Second Civil War Coming?
By Jeff Lukens

Civil wars are horrendous and bloody affairs. That's why we should avoid them.  They happen when two sides cannot settle on who runs the country.  When they can't reconcile the matter through elections, the country falls apart.  When one side does not accept the election results, we have a countdown to a civil war.

This is the thesis put forth by journalist Daniel Greenfield.  It rings true on many levels.

Does the fact that Democrats are rejecting a duly elected Republican president really mean they don't accept the results of any election they don't win?  If so, we may be already nearing America's Second Civil War.

It is no secret that Democrats and Republicans are more ideologically divided than in recent years.  Parts of the country detest the other parts.  Coastal elites dislike flyover country.  The blue states despise the red states, and vice versa.

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Offline Sanguine

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Re: Is a Second Civil War Coming?
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2019, 04:24:34 pm »

Offline goatprairie

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Re: Is a Second Civil War Coming?
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2019, 04:25:14 pm »
If SJWs keep pushing for one, yes.  SJWs should be careful what they wish for...I don't think they'd like the outcome.

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Re: Is a Second Civil War Coming?
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2019, 04:40:52 pm »
The Ken Burns Civil War documentary is on Netflix, and it's excellent. This was on my mind while watching it.

Offline Bigun

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Re: Is a Second Civil War Coming?
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2019, 04:46:56 pm »
Quote
Is a Second Civil War Coming?

As surely as the sun rises in the East!  It will be the first rather than the second. This country has yet to experience a war in which two or more factions are fighting for control of the central government.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Fishrrman

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Re: Is a Second Civil War Coming?
« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2019, 01:43:38 am »
I'll go on record as stating that a "second Civil War" is probably in our future, unless one of two alternative pathways is taken to avert one.

First pathway:
A "reconciliation" between the leftist/democrat-communists and traditional-minded Americans of Euro-background (i.e, "the red-state whites"). But this would require that the leftists eschew their ever-leftward march, and begin moving back toward the center philosophically and politically.

How many here think that could happen? Really?

Second pathway:
A peaceful "separation of the states" into two or more fully-autonomous nations, or in lieu of that, into semi-autonomous "sub-nations".

It's happened before in our history -- look at how West Virginia split off from Virginia, due to ideological differences in the first Civil War. There's no logical reason why it couldn't happen again, but this time on a national scale.

But... if neither of the above alternatives are taken, at some point the left is going to gain power and attempt to force its will on the red states, to literally "force them into submission" (if you don't think that's what "National Popular Vote" is about, you'd better start thinking again). Traditional-minded Americans would prefer just to separate, and "go their own way". But the left will never permit this. Submit.... our way... or the ...?

I see this as a certainty at some point in the not-too-distant future.
When that time arrives, how will the red states respond?

Individual resistance won't work, although acts of such resistance will motivate others.

It will require state legislatures in concert with state governors, preferably a group of states banding together to "fight back" or "nullify" a leftist/communist federal government. Hmmm... when did we see that before in our history?
Which state will step out to become "the South Carolina" this time?

I'm not advocating overthrow of the present government... of course not, I VOTED FOR the administration that's running it.

But I can see what's coming down the line.
And I can foresee what would be necessary to avert it.

But whether those steps will be taken... what say you?

Offline LegalAmerican

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Re: Is a Second Civil War Coming?
« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2019, 02:05:32 am »
We probably need one. Look at what is in congress HOUSE now. ALL COMMUNISTS.
---------------------------------------

More Than 100 House Dems: Our Healthcare Bill Will Outlaw Private Coverage, Eliminate Up to Two Million Jobs, and Cover Abortion
 Guy Benson Guy Benson | @guypbenson |Posted: Feb 28, 2019 2:05 PM 

More Than 100 House Dems: Our Healthcare Bill Will Outlaw Private Coverage, Eliminate Up to Two Million Jobs, and Cover Abortion

More than 100 House Democrats -- nearly half of the new majority -- have signed on to a new single-payer healthcare bill that supporters describe as "battle ready."  If by "battle ready," they mean, "extremely controversial, deeply politically risky, and totally bereft of any acknowledgement of the proposal's eye-poppingly exorbitant costs," they're undoubtedly correct.  Politico's story on the legislation is full of extraordinary tidbits and quotes.  Here are some of the most important facts we've learned:

(1) The bill "doesn’t include a price tag or specific proposals for financing the new system, which analysts estimate would cost tens of trillions of dollars over a decade."  The lead sponsor of the bill says her crew will release a list of "suggested funding mechanisms" at some point in the future.  One of these mechanisms, we're told, is "a tax on high earners."  If you've been following this debate, you're well aware that targeted taxes on 'the rich' would be woefully insufficient in raising even a fraction of the expected cost.  Enormous tax hikes on all Americans would be necessary.  This math is not seriously disputed. 

And given the comprehensiveness of the proposed 'benefits' in this bill (it goes even farther than Bernie Sanders' Senate version), some experts are already estimating that its price tag (which, again, is missing entirely from the legislation) could be on the order of $40 trillion over its first ten years.  This would require roughly doubling the entire federal budget, which already runs a significant annual deficit.  It's possible that they believe this plan to be "battle ready" because it hides the ball on cost, allowing proponents to mumble about hazy "investments" instead of confronting real numbers.

(2) Via NBC News, "The legislation's most contentious provision would end private health insurance and replace it with a government system."  Yes, virtually all private coverage would be outlawed, forcing every single American into an innovation-crushing, government-run system.  Approximately 177 million Americans currently receive private health insurance, either through their employers, or directly from insurers.  The vast majority of these people are satisfied with their coverage, according to Gallup.  All of these people would be uprooted from their existing plans and funneled into the federal bureaucracy.  On the matter of ripping people away from their existing status quo, this proposal gets worse -- both practically and politically:


For years, Democrats have attacked Republicans for "ending Medicare as we know it," often resorting to demagoguery and falsehoods.  This scheme would literally end Medicare, creating a brand new, massive entitlement that seniors and Medicaid recipients would have no choice but to join.  Please recall that Medicare is already becoming fiscally insolvent at an alarming rate, and that Medicaid is already terribly strained under the weight of its current recipient pool (expanded under Obamacare).  Only recipients of the deeply broken VA and Native American health services would be able to keep their plans.  In addition to Medicaid, both of these federally-facilitated programs have faced serious crises on access to care and wait times.  And again, we have no idea how Democrats would pay for any of this -- and neither do they.


(3) Given the party's grim march toward abortion extremism, it should come as little surprise that this single-payer regime would require taxpayer funding of abortion.  One of the few bipartisan truces on this divisive issue at the federal level has been the Hyde Amendment, under which public dollars do not flow to abortions.  This would upend that precedent, mandating (unpopular) public funding of abortion.

(4) Minor detail:

For the first five years, at least 1 percent of that massive budget would go toward programs helping millions of health care workers displaced by the creation of a single government-run system, including “wage replacement” and retirement benefits in addition to job training. Jayapal estimated that 1 million to 2 million people in the private heath insurance industry could lose jobs.
(5) Finally, there's this important point:


Last time Democrats had full control of government, they jammed through an unpopular program, promising the moon and the stars. All benefits, no drawbacks. This fiction came crashing down as five million people lost their plans, in violation of a core pledge, the federal website faltered, premiums continued to rapidly increase, and insurers fled the marketplace. Obamacare only became quasi-acceptable to many voters when fears over the wages of repeal torpedoed the GOP's replacement efforts. Both of these lessons -- Democrats' Obamacare mess, and Republicans' repeal fiasco -- offer object lessons in the profound political risks single-payer advocates are taking here.


Now the party that took a giant bite at the healthcare reform apple just a few years ago (implementation started in 2013) wants to throw out their entire new law and replace it with a government supremacist scheme. This is an admission of failure. This bill's lead sponsor calls the current state of American healthcare "absolutely atrocious." Most Americans simply do not agree with that assessment, even as they want lower costs. But Democrats remade our system, on a party-line vote, during the last presidency. Now they want a do-over, with much farther-reaching consequences, for far more people. Why should anyone trust them to do this?  I'll leave you with healthcare policy expert Philip Klein's tough assessment of this reckless legislation:

 End of Discussion: How the Left's Outrage Industry Shuts Down Debate, Manipulates Voters, and Makes America Less Free…

Offline Free Vulcan

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Re: Is a Second Civil War Coming?
« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2019, 04:31:48 am »
More like a divorce when DC runs out of money.
The Republic is lost.

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Re: Is a Second Civil War Coming?
« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2019, 04:35:46 am »
Social media is complicit in creating a culture where Conservative thought is tantamount to child porn.

We have become the 1930's European Jew. 

When I read that an 19 year old doesn't hesitate to go out of his way to physically assault an 81 year old man because he's wearing a MAGA hat...for a moment I become Paul Kersey.

I know exactly how Liam Neeson felt.

Am outraged that not one network covered it, while spending two plus weeks on phony ass Jussie.

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Re: Is a Second Civil War Coming?
« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2019, 05:17:15 am »
February 28, 2019
Is a Second Civil War Coming?


I more likely now than I did a year ago.  When I see bitches like AOC getting traction, I know the schism between the left and right is deepening rapidly.

I think two things concurrently will trigger it.  (1) comprehenisve expanded gun control, and (2) Governemnt confiscation of our 401 k's and IRA's into a government run, so called equitable social security type pension system.
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Re: Is a Second Civil War Coming?
« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2019, 05:20:10 am »
for a moment I become Paul Kersey.



Those were such feel good movies weren't they?   :cool:
I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.

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Re: Is a Second Civil War Coming?
« Reply #11 on: March 01, 2019, 05:25:22 am »
More like a divorce when DC runs out of money.

Don't even think like that. Give em that idea and they'll want alimony and child support.

Offline InHeavenThereIsNoBeer

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Re: Is a Second Civil War Coming?
« Reply #12 on: March 01, 2019, 07:43:18 am »
No, but if it does I'm on Texas' side.
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Is a Second Civil War Coming?
« Reply #13 on: March 01, 2019, 01:53:34 pm »
Eventually.

Maybe even soon if the left gets too cocky.
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Is a Second Civil War Coming?
« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2019, 01:56:08 pm »
As surely as the sun rises in the East!  It will be the first rather than the second. This country has yet to experience a war in which two or more factions are fighting for control of the central government.

@Bigun

It's gonna be ugly,too. The left are fools,so when they start to lose they will panic and invite the Red Army in to help them "quell the riots and create stability".

That will be the end of America as an independent nation,and the end of our leftist troublemakers as well. The Chinese ain't big on power sharing.
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Is a Second Civil War Coming?
« Reply #15 on: March 01, 2019, 01:59:30 pm »
I more likely now than I did a year ago.  When I see bitches like AOC getting traction, I know the schism between the left and right is deepening rapidly.

I think two things concurrently will trigger it.  (1) comprehenisve expanded gun control, and (2) Governemnt confiscation of our 401 k's and IRA's into a government run, so called equitable social security type pension system.

@catfish1957

Good call on the part in bold. I hadn't even considered that as a factor.
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Re: Is a Second Civil War Coming?
« Reply #16 on: March 01, 2019, 03:14:38 pm »
@Bigun

It's gonna be ugly,too. The left are fools,so when they start to lose they will panic and invite the Red Army in to help them "quell the riots and create stability".

That will be the end of America as an independent nation,and the end of our leftist troublemakers as well. The Chinese ain't big on power sharing.

Nope. There ain't a country in its right mind that would profit from imposing itself upon this nation when she is already pissed with her rifles in hand... behind every blade of grass.

@sneakypete

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Is a Second Civil War Coming?
« Reply #17 on: March 01, 2019, 03:20:42 pm »
Nope. There ain't a country in its right mind that would profit from imposing itself upon this nation when she is already pissed with her rifles in hand... behind every blade of grass.

@sneakypete

@roamer_1

That doesn't apply to China. They have more bodies than we have bullets.
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Re: Is a Second Civil War Coming?
« Reply #18 on: March 01, 2019, 03:20:54 pm »
March 1, 2019
America's Second Civil War Has Already Begun
By William L. Gensert

In an excellent article by Jeff Lukens here on American Thinker, he asks the question, “Is a second civil war coming?”  In reply, I say that America’s second civil war has already begun.  Its opening shots were fired by Barack Obama when he stated, “We are five days away from fundamentally transforming the United States of America.”

Most of this country is center-right and never considered America a place that needed transformation.  Most people can think of things they would change but few believe the nation needs to be torn down and rebuilt.  Obama failed but the left soldiers on in its quest for a new America remade in their own image.

When Obama went on his world apology tour, he wasn’t apologizing for America, he was apologizing for Americans.  This is the essence of this second civil war.  Leftists are demi-gods who believe they are America and that anyone who does not believe in them cannot lay legitimate claim to this country as their own.

Yes, this war has begun.  The opening skirmish was the Obama presidency itself, which history will see as a failure, despite what the media want us to believe in the here and now.  Sure, he passed ObamaCare and Dodd-Frank, overregulated, and ruled by executive diktat to great media acclaim.  Yet, ObamaCare and Dodd-Frank have been whittled away by legislation and judicial rulings, while Trump has prioritized deregulation and reversed many of Obama’s illegal executive orders.

more
https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2019/03/americas_second_civil_war_has_already_begun.html
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Re: Is a Second Civil War Coming?
« Reply #19 on: March 01, 2019, 03:22:09 pm »
@roamer_1

That doesn't apply to China. They have more bodies than we have bullets.

Not by the time we're done they don't.

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Re: Is a Second Civil War Coming?
« Reply #20 on: March 01, 2019, 03:22:44 pm »
"The opening skirmish was the Obama presidency itself..."


Welcome to the party, Mr. Gensert.
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Offline skeeter

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Re: Is a Second Civil War Coming?
« Reply #21 on: March 01, 2019, 03:48:02 pm »
March 1, 2019
America's Second Civil War Has Already Begun
By William L. Gensert

In an excellent article by Jeff Lukens here on American Thinker, he asks the question, “Is a second civil war coming?”  In reply, I say that America’s second civil war has already begun.  Its opening shots were fired by Barack Obama when he stated, “We are five days away from fundamentally transforming the United States of America.”

Most of this country is center-right and never considered America a place that needed transformation.  Most people can think of things they would change but few believe the nation needs to be torn down and rebuilt.  Obama failed but the left soldiers on in its quest for a new America remade in their own image.

When Obama went on his world apology tour, he wasn’t apologizing for America, he was apologizing for Americans.  This is the essence of this second civil war.  Leftists are demi-gods who believe they are America and that anyone who does not believe in them cannot lay legitimate claim to this country as their own.

Yes, this war has begun.  The opening skirmish was the Obama presidency itself, which history will see as a failure, despite what the media want us to believe in the here and now.  Sure, he passed ObamaCare and Dodd-Frank, overregulated, and ruled by executive diktat to great media acclaim.  Yet, ObamaCare and Dodd-Frank have been whittled away by legislation and judicial rulings, while Trump has prioritized deregulation and reversed many of Obama’s illegal executive orders.

more
https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2019/03/americas_second_civil_war_has_already_begun.html

Part of me wants to consider talk of open war hyperbole but my rational side can't imagine any other outcome when one political party refuses to abide by our historical system of peaceful transition of political power.

Offline Sanguine

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Re: Is a Second Civil War Coming?
« Reply #22 on: March 01, 2019, 03:51:30 pm »
Part of me wants to consider talk of open war hyperbole but my rational side can't imagine any other outcome when one political party refuses to abide by our historical system of peaceful transition of political power.

Yes, I'm there too.  If you look at what's coming out of dems' mouths right now and their actions, I don't see any way to back it down. 

Offline Bigun

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Re: Is a Second Civil War Coming?
« Reply #23 on: March 01, 2019, 04:35:45 pm »
March 1, 2019
America's Second Civil War Has Already Begun
By William L. Gensert

In an excellent article by Jeff Lukens here on American Thinker, he asks the question, “Is a second civil war coming?”  In reply, I say that America’s second civil war has already begun.  Its opening shots were fired by Barack Obama when he stated, “We are five days away from fundamentally transforming the United States of America.”

Most of this country is center-right and never considered America a place that needed transformation.  Most people can think of things they would change but few believe the nation needs to be torn down and rebuilt.  Obama failed but the left soldiers on in its quest for a new America remade in their own image.

When Obama went on his world apology tour, he wasn’t apologizing for America, he was apologizing for Americans.  This is the essence of this second civil war.  Leftists are demi-gods who believe they are America and that anyone who does not believe in them cannot lay legitimate claim to this country as their own.

Yes, this war has begun.  The opening skirmish was the Obama presidency itself, which history will see as a failure, despite what the media want us to believe in the here and now.  Sure, he passed ObamaCare and Dodd-Frank, overregulated, and ruled by executive diktat to great media acclaim.  Yet, ObamaCare and Dodd-Frank have been whittled away by legislation and judicial rulings, while Trump has prioritized deregulation and reversed many of Obama’s illegal executive orders.

more
https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2019/03/americas_second_civil_war_has_already_begun.html

It's a relatively cold war at present but for how long that remains the case is anybody's guess.  My personal guess is that the outcome of the 2020 presidential election will be the spark that turns it hot no matter what the outcome turns out to be.

Here's another story on this very subject!  https://www.lmtonline.com/news/article/In-America-talk-turns-to-something-unspoken-for-13654893.php?fbclid=IwAR11OQNOz5Uuq__xpQcmkd5HoBVX8vfnyJeBzJKkYbCXjBkld0gPhzv4VmU
« Last Edit: March 01, 2019, 04:54:07 pm by Bigun »
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

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Offline goatprairie

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Re: Is a Second Civil War Coming?
« Reply #24 on: March 01, 2019, 06:26:20 pm »
My feeling is that many people who are now reflexively voting for Dems don't know what they're getting into with the up and coming self-admitted socialists now running the party.
Average Dems around here, Wisconsin,  are not nearly as socialist minded as the people running the party.
They still think that somehow the Dem party represents the average working man or woman. They have no idea how much white people, especially males, are now despised by the Dem elites.  When they discover that their country would like them to give up their guns (yes, many Dems around here have guns) big homes, big cars, eating habits, and beg for forgiveness for being white, I don't think they'd like their new Socialist States of America very much.
Here's hoping they get their eyes opened before a shooting war starts.