Author Topic: House passes bill to require universal background checks on gun sales  (Read 16837 times)

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Offline sneakypete

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Re: House passes bill to require universal background checks on gun sales
« Reply #150 on: March 07, 2019, 06:51:40 am »
What America REALLY needs are federal and state laws requiring a background check before anyone is allowed to register to vote.
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: House passes bill to require universal background checks on gun sales
« Reply #151 on: March 07, 2019, 10:39:40 am »
What America REALLY needs are federal and state laws requiring a background check before anyone is allowed to register to vote.
Not to mention some serious tox screens (drug tests) on those voting in Congress...If you gotta pass one to run a drilling rig you should have to pass one to run a country.
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Offline thackney

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Re: House passes bill to require universal background checks on gun sales
« Reply #152 on: March 07, 2019, 01:37:53 pm »
I understand, @Smokin Joe , why you don't accept a woman's right to decide for herself whether or not to have a child.   But why do you abandon your conservative instincts to demand the state make the call?   why is this not an issue of individual conscience?

Because the right to live of the innocent out trumps the right of convenience of the mother.

Just as you have the right to act as you want in your home.  But when your acts interfereswith the rights of your neighbors, it is not allowed.
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Offline Jazzhead

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Re: House passes bill to require universal background checks on gun sales
« Reply #153 on: March 07, 2019, 01:39:21 pm »
What America REALLY needs are federal and state laws requiring a background check before anyone is allowed to register to vote.

Or at a minimum an ID.   We don't limit voting to citizens who pass ideological tests,  but we do limit voting to citizens.   Except that we don't enforce it. 
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Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: House passes bill to require universal background checks on gun sales
« Reply #154 on: March 07, 2019, 01:40:14 pm »
What America REALLY needs are federal and state laws requiring a background check before anyone is allowed to register to vote.
This should be coupled with a civics literacy test.

One should not be able to vote if one fails to understand what one is voting for and the laws inherent in the process.
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Offline Jazzhead

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Re: House passes bill to require universal background checks on gun sales
« Reply #155 on: March 07, 2019, 01:44:47 pm »
Because the right to live of the innocent out trumps the right of convenience of the mother.

Just as you have the right to act as you want in your home.  But when your acts interfereswith the rights of your neighbors, it is not allowed.

You are stating the moral argument, and it is one that I agree with.   But the discussion is about legal rights,  and a pre-viable fetus has no such rights, vis a vis its mother.   

That's simply the way it has to be for legal purposes.  The mother is alive, the fetus cannot survive on its own and is biologically dependent on the mother.   It is the mother who gets to decide.    You can and should make your moral arguments,  because persuasion is a good thing.  Coercion by the State is not. 
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Offline Jazzhead

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Re: House passes bill to require universal background checks on gun sales
« Reply #156 on: March 07, 2019, 01:47:47 pm »

EXCELLENT!  Woman has all kind of rights to HER BODY...but not when she carry's another life.  That life has, no say so, if she aborts.

Again, that's a moral argument.  Make it.   But don't conscript the State to enforce your moral views on others.   
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Offline Jazzhead

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Re: House passes bill to require universal background checks on gun sales
« Reply #157 on: March 07, 2019, 01:55:41 pm »
you just don't get it.  Judges do NOT confer rights.  In fact, the interpretation  by SCOTUS is a made up right itself.

I recommend living in the real world.   It might help you better understand the true danger to your right to bear arms.   

The 2A is not what's protecting your right to individual self defense.   It is the Heller opinion.   Yacking about the 2A as a bulwark against King George is a waste of time.  The 2A says nothing about natural rights, or individual rights;  it is a Constitutional provision addressing the role of the citizens' militia, and as such is wholly obsolete.       Your natural right to self-defense of your person and property is acknowledged and protected not by the 2A, but by a transient Court majority.   Same as a woman's right to choose.   It is fragile,  and dependent as a practical matter on the results of the next Presidential election.   
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Offline verga

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Re: House passes bill to require universal background checks on gun sales
« Reply #158 on: March 07, 2019, 02:09:52 pm »
You are stating the moral argument, and it is one that I agree with.   But the discussion is about legal rights,  and a pre-viable fetus has no such rights, vis a vis its mother.   

That's simply the way it has to be for legal purposes.  The mother is alive, the fetus cannot survive on its own and is biologically dependent on the mother.   It is the mother who gets to decide.    You can and should make your moral arguments,  because persuasion is a good thing.  Coercion by the State is not.
Just  because it is legal does not make it moral. If we are not living in a moral and just society we are on our way to ruin.
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Offline Jazzhead

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Re: House passes bill to require universal background checks on gun sales
« Reply #159 on: March 07, 2019, 02:19:12 pm »
Just  because it is legal does not make it moral. If we are not living in a moral and just society we are on our way to ruin.

Absolutely agree,  @verga     In most situations, abortion is a choice that's morally wrong.   But, if the fetus is not yet viable,  it is a legal choice that the mother can make, in exercise of her natural right of self-determination as protected by the Constitution.   
« Last Edit: March 07, 2019, 02:44:12 pm by Jazzhead »
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Offline Restored

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Re: House passes bill to require universal background checks on gun sales
« Reply #160 on: March 07, 2019, 02:25:41 pm »
"in exercise of her natural right of self-determination "

Can a man claim self-determination and refuse to pay child support?
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: House passes bill to require universal background checks on gun sales
« Reply #161 on: March 07, 2019, 02:40:52 pm »
Because the right to live of the innocent out trumps the right of convenience of the mother.



@thackney

So.....,you are not oppossed to abortion in order to save the life or health of the mother?
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Offline Jazzhead

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Re: House passes bill to require universal background checks on gun sales
« Reply #162 on: March 07, 2019, 02:42:48 pm »
"in exercise of her natural right of self-determination "

Can a man claim self-determination and refuse to pay child support?

If that were the rule,  there'd be a lot more abortions.   Remember,  in most cases a woman chooses to abort because of her own desperate circumstance.   Folks here love to label such women as murderers,  but the reality is that many believe they have no choice.   Especially when the unexpected byproduct of a consensual relationship spurs the man to walk out the door and abandon his responsibilities.   Left on her own, with no partner and afraid of the reaction of her family,  the woman feels she has no choice but to end the pregnancy.   

It is situations like this where the pro-life movement is most effective.   Not when it demands the State coerce its moral perspective.  But when it provides real support to women in desperate circumstances,  so they understand and believe there are better options than destroying the nascent life in her womb.   
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Offline thackney

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Re: House passes bill to require universal background checks on gun sales
« Reply #163 on: March 07, 2019, 02:43:05 pm »
You are stating the moral argument, and it is one that I agree with.   But the discussion is about legal rights,  and a pre-viable fetus has no such rights, vis a vis its mother.   

That's simply the way it has to be for legal purposes.  The mother is alive, the fetus cannot survive on its own and is biologically dependent on the mother.   It is the mother who gets to decide.    You can and should make your moral arguments,  because persuasion is a good thing.  Coercion by the State is not.

The state already charges murder of two when a pregnant woman is killed.  The state has already ruled this to be an independent life with rights of it's own.
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Offline Jazzhead

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Re: House passes bill to require universal background checks on gun sales
« Reply #164 on: March 07, 2019, 02:50:30 pm »
The state already charges murder of two when a pregnant woman is killed.  The state has already ruled this to be an independent life with rights of it's own.

No,  the fetus doesn't have independent rights of its own.   What you claim are its legal "rights" are in fact derived from that of the mother.    That's because the fetus' interest and the mother's interest coincide.   The mother is harmed when her unborn child is harmed by a third party.   

The abortion debate concerns the situation where the fetus' interest is in opposition to that of the mother.   The fetus is unexpected and unwanted.   Yes, the moral argument is compelling.  But as a legal matter,  the mother's rights can and must trump the "right" of an pre-viable fetus.    It is her body, and the fetus cannot survive without that body.  It is the woman's decision, and no one else's.   
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Re: House passes bill to require universal background checks on gun sales
« Reply #165 on: March 07, 2019, 02:58:47 pm »
This thread is about the Rats' lust for gun/people control.  Let's leave the abortion discussion to a thread about abortion.  This side discussion has gone on long enough.

Please get back on topic.
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Offline roamer_1

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Re: House passes bill to require universal background checks on gun sales
« Reply #166 on: March 07, 2019, 03:06:41 pm »
Rom 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:(KJV)


There was a time within my lifetime, where the nobility of a woman could best be described in the words, "Don't worry about me, save my baby!"

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Offline thackney

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Re: House passes bill to require universal background checks on gun sales
« Reply #167 on: March 07, 2019, 03:07:11 pm »
No,  the fetus doesn't have independent rights of its own.   What you claim are its legal "rights" are in fact derived from that of the mother.    That's because the fetus' interest and the mother's interest coincide.   The mother is harmed when her unborn child is harmed by a third party.   

The abortion debate concerns the situation where the fetus' interest is in opposition to that of the mother.   The fetus is unexpected and unwanted.   Yes, the moral argument is compelling.  But as a legal matter,  the mother's rights can and must trump the "right" of an pre-viable fetus.    It is her body, and the fetus cannot survive without that body.  It is the woman's decision, and no one else's.   

Many, but not all, states have legally defined person to include the unborn child.

http://www.ncsl.org/research/health/fetal-homicide-state-laws.aspx
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Offline thackney

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Re: House passes bill to require universal background checks on gun sales
« Reply #168 on: March 07, 2019, 03:13:19 pm »
@thackney

So.....,you are not oppossed to abortion in order to save the life or health of the mother?

I can accept the life argument.  But health is very vague.  A 2 year old with a runny nose can impact the health of the mother.  Should we will it?
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Offline Jazzhead

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Re: House passes bill to require universal background checks on gun sales
« Reply #169 on: March 07, 2019, 03:58:09 pm »
Many, but not all, states have legally defined person to include the unborn child.

http://www.ncsl.org/research/health/fetal-homicide-state-laws.aspx

Yes, but they all address the killing of a fetus in the commission of a violent act against the pregnant mother.   The mother suffered the loss of the baby she expected to bear.   

Such laws are irrelevant with respect to the mother's own right of self-determination.   So long as the fetus is pre-viable, she cannot be compelled by the State to reproduce.   
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Offline Jazzhead

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Re: House passes bill to require universal background checks on gun sales
« Reply #170 on: March 07, 2019, 04:02:52 pm »
This thread is about the Rats' lust for gun/people control.  Let's leave the abortion discussion to a thread about abortion.  This side discussion has gone on long enough.

Please get back on topic.

Sorry about the thread drift, CL.    I had raised the subject in pointing out the hypocrisy of both conservatives and liberals on the subject of the Constitution's protection of natural rights.  Both conservatives and liberals frame their positions as "rights for me but not for thee".     Libs insist on the choice right but seek to undermine or overrule the Heller decision protecting  your right to own a gun to protect your family.  Conservatives love the Heller decision but condemn the Constitution's protection of the rights of women to reproductive liberty. 

 
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Re: House passes bill to require universal background checks on gun sales
« Reply #171 on: March 07, 2019, 04:04:21 pm »
OK, one more try:  Here's a Topic about an abortion law in GA.

http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,353806.0.html

Please leave this topic to discussion about gun control so I don't have to lock it....
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Offline skeeter

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Re: House passes bill to require universal background checks on gun sales
« Reply #172 on: March 07, 2019, 04:05:53 pm »
Libs insist on the choice right but seek to undermine or overrule the Heller decision protecting your right to own a gun to protect your family. 

This one sentence sums up why your position on firearms ownership is wrong, JH. Any defense of the 2A has to start with a clear understanding of why it was included in the Constitution in the first place.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2019, 04:07:47 pm by skeeter »

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Re: House passes bill to require universal background checks on gun sales
« Reply #173 on: March 07, 2019, 04:08:43 pm »
Sorry about the thread drift, CL.    I had raised the subject in pointing out the hypocrisy of both conservatives and liberals on the subject of the Constitution's protection of natural rights.  Both conservatives and liberals frame their positions as "rights for me but not for thee".     Libs insist on the choice right but seek to undermine or overrule the Heller decision protecting  your right to own a gun to protect your family.  Conservatives love the Heller decision but condemn the Constitution's protection of the rights of women to reproductive liberty.

Try to resist. 
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Online Elderberry

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Re: House passes bill to require universal background checks on gun sales
« Reply #174 on: March 07, 2019, 04:15:30 pm »
Senate Dems call for hearing on universal background checks bill
By Tal Axelrod - 03/06/19 02:41 PM EST

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/432899-senate-dems-call-for-hearing-on-universal-background-checks-bill

Quote
Senate Democrats called on the Senate Judiciary Committee Wednesday to hold a hearing on universal background checks.

Sen. Chris Murphy (D-Conn.), a vociferous advocate for gun control measures, led a group of 37 Democrats in sending a letter to Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.), the chairman of the Senate panel, calling on him to consider legislation currently pending before the committee that would universalize background checks.

More at link