Author Topic: House passes bill to require universal background checks on gun sales  (Read 6073 times)

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Offline ABX

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This expands checks to all private sales, even transferring firearms between family members. It seems it has a lot of nasty anti-gun riders as well.

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The House passed legislation mandating federal criminal background checks on all gun sales, including private transactions, in the most high-profile congressional vote on gun control in decades.

The House passed the bill on a 240-190 vote. It faces stiff opposition in the GOP-controlled Senate....


https://www.politico.com/story/2019/02/27/house-passes-bill-to-require-universal-background-checks-on-gun-sales-1193043


Offline Elderberry

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Re: House passes bill to require universal background checks on gun sales
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2019, 04:09:04 PM »
THE TRUTH ABOUT SO-CALLED "UNIVERSAL" BACKGROUND CHECK LEGISLATION H.R. 8 AND S. 42

https://www.nraila.org/campaigns/2019/2019-universal-background-check-legislation/about-s-42-and-hr-8/

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NRA-ILA

As proposed, H.R. 8 and S. 42 would forbid a person from transferring a firearm to another person unless facilitated through a licensed firearms dealer.  Both parties to the transfer must appear jointly at a willing dealer, who must conduct a background check through the National Instant Criminal Background Check System and comply with all state and federal requirements as though he were selling or transferring a firearm out of his own inventory.

While proponents of the bills often refer to it as a background check on sales of firearms, the true effect of H.R. 8 or S. 42 would be criminalizing otherwise lawful conduct with firearms. The overbroad nature of the proposed legislation would criminalize many transfers that take place as part of hunting, recreational shooting, and even self-defense.

ABOUT H.R. 8/S. 42

 On January 8, two bills were introduced in Congress to impose so-called "universal" background checks. The bills, H.R. 8 and S. 42, are being misleadingly described as simply requiring background checks on all sales of firearms, but this is just a small part of what these overbroad pieces of legislation would do.

Traps for Law-Abiding Gun Owners

Both bills would make it a crime, subject to certain exceptions, to simply hand a firearm to another person. Any time gun owners carry out this simple act, they would potentially be exposing themselves to criminal penalties. While the bills do create some exceptions, they are overly complicated and create many traps for unwary gun owners. Accidental violations of these complicated provisions are not excused under the proposed legislation.

This legislation is not about public safety. These bills attack law-abiding gun owners by placing further burdens on gun ownership and use. For the anti-gun groups and politicians intent on criminalizing the private transfer of firearms, this legislation is just another step in their effort to extinguish America’s vibrant and legitimate gun culture.
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Online Fishrrman

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Re: House passes bill to require universal background checks on gun sales
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2019, 06:47:25 PM »
Probably won't pass the Senate.

But hey, you never know, with all the Republican turncoats as of late...

Offline NavyCanDo

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Re: House passes bill to require universal background checks on gun sales
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2019, 08:37:05 PM »
Already law here in Washington State. What this means if I want to sale one of my guns to a gun collecting friend, we both have to go to a licence agent for gun sales like a gun store and pay a fee to the srore to perform the background check. Immediate family is excluded.   
When I pass away and my wife has to pay for my elaborate expensive funeral, and wants to sell all my guns to help pay for it, it makes it far tougher to sale them. The easiest thing for her to do is take them all down to a Pawn store and take a huge loss on them.

Of course criminals will face none of these restrictions.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2019, 08:38:23 PM by NavyCanDo »
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Offline ABX

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Re: House passes bill to require universal background checks on gun sales
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2019, 10:17:34 PM »
Probably won't pass the Senate.

But hey, you never know, with all the Republican turncoats as of late...

They only need a couple of flips- a super majority isn't necessary corrections this bill. Add on top of that, an administration that is hostile to gun rights and this one has a frightening chance.

Online roamer_1

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Re: House passes bill to require universal background checks on gun sales
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2019, 10:39:57 PM »
Alaska Montana Idaho Wyoming and North Dakota will tell em to piss off, guaranteed. Most of the desert states and great plains states will follow. Harder for me to tell about the South, but probably. Which means that ever stricter gun laws will be effected right where they always are - In blue liberal states.

Not that it matters to me. Only two of my guns have papers... Easy enough to sell em and ny something off the back of a truck to replace them, and retain the value I have in them - Value that will be greatly reduced putting a dealer in the transaction. So trade em to your buddies, buy and sell to get rid of the record. If you no longer own the gun, they can't say boo.

Let the greatest shell game ever begin!
« Last Edit: February 27, 2019, 10:41:26 PM by roamer_1 »

Online 240B

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Re: House passes bill to require universal background checks on gun sales
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2019, 11:04:30 PM »
Of course criminals will face none of these restrictions.
That's what makes me chuckle about all of this. Does anyone honestly believe that gangbangers and armed criminals on the street give a shit about any of this?

Headlines we will never see:
Local gangbanger and armed robber LeRoy 'T-Dog' Gonzales is OUTRAGED by these new gun restrictions!
Gangbangers and Felons plan rally to protest new gun laws.

You got a gun?
Yea man, I got a gun.
How much?
Hunert dollas bro.
Alright.
Alright, here ya go.

Street thugs don't care about who the guy is, where the gun came from, or anything at all. Gun Laws only affect people who care about Laws. And these people are not the problem. This is like calling for all domestic dogs to be registered and on a leash to prevent wolves from attacking people.
You cannot "COEXIST" with people who want to kill you.
If they kill their own with no conscience, there is nothing to stop them from killing you.

Offline Elderberry

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Re: House passes bill to require universal background checks on gun sales
« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2019, 11:13:40 PM »
Only two of my guns have papers.

Papers? None of my guns have papers.

Now I understand paper patched bullets. I even have Paul Matthew's book "The Paper Jacket" I always wanted to shoot paper patched bullets in my 45-70.
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Online roamer_1

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Re: House passes bill to require universal background checks on gun sales
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2019, 11:33:34 PM »
Papers? None of my guns have papers.

Now I understand paper patched bullets. I even have Paul Matthew's book "The Paper Jacket" I always wanted to shoot paper patched bullets in my 45-70.

Funny yu should say that, because my 45/70 is one of my papered guns. I bought it brand new, over the counter.

Offline Elderberry

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Re: House passes bill to require universal background checks on gun sales
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2019, 11:43:21 PM »
Funny yu should say that, because my 45/70 is one of my papered guns. I bought it brand new, over the counter.

The only papered gun I've bought was a Nepalese Gahendra Martini Rifle that was cosmolined and wrapped in paper.

https://www.ima-usa.com/products/original-nepalese-gahendra-martini-rifle-untouched-condition

Its sure gotten expensive since I picked up mine.

I've bought many papered barrels, but only that one papered rifle.
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Online Smokin Joe

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Re: House passes bill to require universal background checks on gun sales
« Reply #10 on: February 28, 2019, 12:25:44 AM »
Papers? None of my guns have papers.

Now I understand paper patched bullets. I even have Paul Matthew's book "The Paper Jacket" I always wanted to shoot paper patched bullets in my 45-70.
You might want to read this one, too: https://shilohrifle.com/accessories/books/paper-patched-bullets-by-orville-c.-loomer/
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Offline verga

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Re: House passes bill to require universal background checks on gun sales
« Reply #11 on: February 28, 2019, 08:08:07 AM »
Another feel good useless action by people that have no clue about what the heck they are doing. I really wish stupid burned.
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Online rustynail

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Re: House passes bill to require universal background checks on gun sales
« Reply #12 on: February 28, 2019, 08:16:11 AM »
How soon till the democrats demand access to all ATF Form 4473s?

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: House passes bill to require universal background checks on gun sales
« Reply #13 on: February 28, 2019, 08:58:44 AM »
Laws regarding the legal transfer of firearms don't violate the Second Amendment unless the laws are so onerous as to be proxies for the banning or restriction of ownership or use of firearms.

A ban on the ownership of certain classes of weapons (e.g., semi-autos) is Constitutionally problematic.

A ban on the ability to legally carry a firearm in the public square, let alone in the home, for personal protection, is Constitutionally problematic.

But a requirement that private sales be conducted through the medium of a licensed gun dealer that can conduct a background check for a modest fee strikes me as perfectly legal.   Unless, of course,  the state imposes so many restrictions on licensed gun dealers so that (as with some states and abortion clinics)  there few if any licensed gun dealers are left open in the state.

I've made this point before -  when it comes to reasonableness and Constitutionality, the left should view restrictions on guns with the same lens that the right views restrictions on abortion, and vice versa.   Can abortion clinics be subject to such stringent regulation that most are effectively shut down?   If you say yes,  then ponder whether a state can regulate all legal gun dealers out of existence.   Because what's good for the goose is good for the gander.     

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Offline verga

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Re: House passes bill to require universal background checks on gun sales
« Reply #14 on: February 28, 2019, 09:42:34 AM »
Laws regarding the legal transfer of firearms don't violate the Second Amendment unless the laws are so onerous as to be proxies for the banning or restriction of ownership or use of firearms.

A ban on the ownership of certain classes of weapons (e.g., semi-autos) is Constitutionally problematic.

A ban on the ability to legally carry a firearm in the public square, let alone in the home, for personal protection, is Constitutionally problematic.

But a requirement that private sales be conducted through the medium of a licensed gun dealer that can conduct a background check for a modest fee strikes me as perfectly legal.   Unless, of course,  the state imposes so many restrictions on licensed gun dealers so that (as with some states and abortion clinics)  there few if any licensed gun dealers are left open in the state.

I've made this point before -  when it comes to reasonableness and Constitutionality, the left should view restrictions on guns with the same lens that the right views restrictions on abortion, and vice versa.   Can abortion clinics be subject to such stringent regulation that most are effectively shut down?   If you say yes,  then ponder whether a state can regulate all legal gun dealers out of existence.   Because what's good for the goose is good for the gander.   
Perhaps you may have missed this amendment.
Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
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Offline Jazzhead

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Re: House passes bill to require universal background checks on gun sales
« Reply #15 on: February 28, 2019, 10:31:19 AM »
Perhaps you may have missed this amendment.
Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

I don't understand your point.   How is a requirement that the sale of an item be effected in a prescribed way a violation of the law against unreasonable searches and seizures?   

(By the way,  I am agnostic regarding whether the Dems' proposed bill is good policy.   All I'm saying is that it is likely Constitutional.)   
"He was born poor, died rich, and never hurt anyone along the way"

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Online roamer_1

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Re: House passes bill to require universal background checks on gun sales
« Reply #16 on: February 28, 2019, 11:04:14 AM »
I've made this point before -  when it comes to reasonableness and Constitutionality, the left should view restrictions on guns with the same lens that the right views restrictions on abortion, and vice versa.   Can abortion clinics be subject to such stringent regulation that most are effectively shut down?   If you say yes,  then ponder whether a state can regulate all legal gun dealers out of existence.   Because what's good for the goose is good for the gander.   

No, because an abortion ALWAYS ends in the death of the innocent.
The right to bear arms does not.

And you ideas are directly opposed to the 2nd amendment, which is there to guarantee the citizen the last right of redress against tyranny. ANYTHING government does to control that right infringes upon its very purpose.

Offline verga

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Re: House passes bill to require universal background checks on gun sales
« Reply #17 on: February 28, 2019, 11:27:33 AM »
I don't understand your point.   How is a requirement that the sale of an item be effected in a prescribed way a violation of the law against unreasonable searches and seizures?   

(By the way,  I am agnostic regarding whether the Dems' proposed bill is good policy.   All I'm saying is that it is likely Constitutional.)
And I am not the least bit surprised.
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
�More than any other time in history, mankind faces a crossroads. One path leads to despair and utter hopelessness. The other, to total extinction. Let us pray we have the wisdom to choose correctly.�-Woody Allen
If God invented marathons to keep people from doing anything more stupid, the triathlon must have taken him completely by surprise.

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: House passes bill to require universal background checks on gun sales
« Reply #18 on: February 28, 2019, 11:34:27 AM »
And I am not the least bit surprised.

Well, why don't you try to enlighten me?   There are rules about legal transfers of lots of stuff.   I can't sell my house, for example, without paying a transfer tax.   I can't sell my car without transferring the registration.   Are you saying these rules are unconstitutional?  More to the point, how is requiring the transfer of a gun by done by means of a licensed dealer that can perform a background check unconstitutional as an unreasonable search and seizure?   

Attack the Dems' bill on policy grounds,  but don't make yourself look foolish by claiming its unconstitutionality.  It's not.   
"He was born poor, died rich, and never hurt anyone along the way"

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"Not forever.  Just for now"

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Online roamer_1

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Re: House passes bill to require universal background checks on gun sales
« Reply #19 on: February 28, 2019, 12:04:03 PM »
I can't sell my house, for example, without paying a transfer tax.   

I can.

Quote
I can't sell my car without transferring the registration.   

I can.

And I will continue to trade in guns without a dealer because Montana will tell the fed to go p*ss up a rope.

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: House passes bill to require universal background checks on gun sales
« Reply #20 on: February 28, 2019, 12:50:41 PM »
No, because an abortion ALWAYS ends in the death of the innocent.
The right to bear arms does not. 

So gun violence isn't a reality?

Quote
And you ideas are directly opposed to the 2nd amendment, which is there to guarantee the citizen the last right of redress against tyranny. ANYTHING government does to control that right infringes upon its very purpose.

The 2A addresses the right to own a gun (for self-protection of one's person, home and property, which is a natural right of man).  "Redress against tyranny" is bullshit in the context of our Constitutional republic, where our laws have their origin in the actions of our elected representatives,  who can be removed from office by the People.   

Reasonable restrictions on lawful transfers of property do not implicate the 2A.   
"He was born poor, died rich, and never hurt anyone along the way"

   - Duke Ellington, upon hearing of the death of Louis Armstrong

"Not forever.  Just for now"

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Online roamer_1

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Re: House passes bill to require universal background checks on gun sales
« Reply #21 on: February 28, 2019, 12:59:47 PM »
So gun violence isn't a reality?

No, its not. The ingredient you are missing in your recipe is how many times a year guns are used in defense which causes your cause to pale by comparison.

Quote
The 2A addresses the right to own a gun (for self-protection of one's person, home and property, which is a natural right of man).  "Redress against tyranny" is bullshit in the context of our Constitutional republic, where our laws have their origin in the actions of our elected representatives,  who can be removed from office by the People.   

Utter nonsense. As the founders stated over and again. Their intent was clear.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2019, 01:00:23 PM by roamer_1 »

Offline thackney

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Re: House passes bill to require universal background checks on gun sales
« Reply #22 on: February 28, 2019, 01:02:15 PM »
The only result of such legislation will be to make criminals out of previously law-abiding citizens.

 Secondly to create advances in 3D printing.

No existing criminals will be impacted.
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Online roamer_1

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Re: House passes bill to require universal background checks on gun sales
« Reply #23 on: February 28, 2019, 01:08:26 PM »
The only result of such legislation will be to make criminals out of previously law-abiding citizens.

 Secondly to create advances in 3D printing.

No existing criminals will be impacted.

That's right.

Offline verga

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Re: House passes bill to require universal background checks on gun sales
« Reply #24 on: February 28, 2019, 02:33:42 PM »
But, but, but, It's just common sense legislation, how could it go wrong. It would NEVER interfere with the right of law abiding citizens.
Shall not be infringed. any and I mean ANY D@MN thing that prevents law abiding citizens from obtaining, or in any way restricts their purchase, ownership, or use of, is an infringement.
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
�More than any other time in history, mankind faces a crossroads. One path leads to despair and utter hopelessness. The other, to total extinction. Let us pray we have the wisdom to choose correctly.�-Woody Allen
If God invented marathons to keep people from doing anything more stupid, the triathlon must have taken him completely by surprise.


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