Author Topic: They Asked if People Would Rather Kill a Human or a Sentient Robot  (Read 26515 times)

0 Members and 8 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline roamer_1

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 17,193
Re: They Asked if People Would Rather Kill a Human or a Sentient Robot
« Reply #125 on: February 11, 2019, 03:39:43 PM »
:pondering:

There is a good reason it costs so much to buy good rock in Florida, and it's not the acquisition expense.  Dragging a pick-um-up truck loaded with rocks from WV to FL ain't cheap, especially if you have a 3/4 ton Doolie burning Diesel.   :shrug:

Five hundred bucks for a yard and an eighth of slate chips? That dually can haul 5 yards, and the diesel won't care... Hell, put a trailer on the back and haul sommore. At that rate, considering that product or it's like is maybe 10 bucks a yard up in the hills, you'd pay for the dang vacation.

EDIT to add - Dually is always 1T...
« Last Edit: February 11, 2019, 03:42:38 PM by roamer_1 »

Offline bigheadfred

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 11,340
  • Personal text
Re: They Asked if People Would Rather Kill a Human or a Sentient Robot
« Reply #126 on: February 11, 2019, 03:42:00 PM »
ROCKS? You are stealing rocks?
*boggled*

Heck, take your pickup on vacation up into Appalachia - I'd wager they'd GIVE you all the rocks you could handle. Y'all come on up here and have all the rocks you want.

The thought of @RoosGirl coming for my rocks terrifies me.

Offline roamer_1

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 17,193
Re: They Asked if People Would Rather Kill a Human or a Sentient Robot
« Reply #127 on: February 11, 2019, 03:47:59 PM »
The thought of @RoosGirl coming for my rocks terrifies me.

 :silly:

Lightweight.
 :tongue2:

Any decent cowgirl ain't any different except Roos is more polite...

Offline Cyber Liberty

  • Coffee! Donuts! Kittens!
  • Administrator
  • ******
  • Posts: 43,062
  • We got 'im now!®
Re: They Asked if People Would Rather Kill a Human or a Sentient Robot
« Reply #128 on: February 11, 2019, 03:55:24 PM »
Five hundred bucks for a yard and an eighth of slate chips? That dually can haul 5 yards, and the diesel won't care... Hell, put a trailer on the back and haul sommore. At that rate, considering that product or it's like is maybe 10 bucks a yard up in the hills, you'd pay for the dang vacation.

EDIT to add - Dually is always 1T...

I didn't know that, primarily because I have no interest in that vehicle for my current needs.  That may change if I get something that needs towing, like a boat or a fifth-wheel. 
Don't call it the "Federal Government," that's an insult to the Founders.  It's a "National Government."
I will NOT comply.
                          Castillo del Cyber! ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline Cyber Liberty

  • Coffee! Donuts! Kittens!
  • Administrator
  • ******
  • Posts: 43,062
  • We got 'im now!®
Re: They Asked if People Would Rather Kill a Human or a Sentient Robot
« Reply #129 on: February 11, 2019, 03:56:34 PM »
:silly:

Lightweight.
 :tongue2:

Any decent cowgirl ain't any different except Roos is more polite...

Hmmmm... :pondering:

No, I think it's time for an unspoken thought. 333cleo
Don't call it the "Federal Government," that's an insult to the Founders.  It's a "National Government."
I will NOT comply.
                          Castillo del Cyber! ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline roamer_1

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 17,193
Re: They Asked if People Would Rather Kill a Human or a Sentient Robot
« Reply #130 on: February 11, 2019, 04:00:39 PM »
Hmmmm... :pondering:

No, I think it's time for an unspoken thought. 333cleo

She has that sweet Southern charm...

Offline RoosGirl

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 16,809
Re: They Asked if People Would Rather Kill a Human or a Sentient Robot
« Reply #131 on: February 11, 2019, 04:02:34 PM »
The thought of @RoosGirl coming for my rocks terrifies me.

You and every other man except @roamer_1 apparently.

Offline RoosGirl

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 16,809
Re: They Asked if People Would Rather Kill a Human or a Sentient Robot
« Reply #132 on: February 11, 2019, 04:03:47 PM »
:silly:

Lightweight.
 :tongue2:

Any decent cowgirl ain't any different except Roos is more polite...

I am rather polite.

Offline roamer_1

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 17,193
Re: They Asked if People Would Rather Kill a Human or a Sentient Robot
« Reply #133 on: February 11, 2019, 04:04:55 PM »
I didn't know that, primarily because I have no interest in that vehicle for my current needs.  That may change if I get something that needs towing, like a boat or a fifth-wheel.

I have always wanted me a Cowboy Cadillac. Had a few, but always flipped em rather than keeping em... 1T dually 4x4 for me has always been fitted with a dumping flatbed and ladder racks...

But you are out in the country now son... you better get you a pickup of some kind, or folks are gonna look at you funny. And it prolly needs gun racks in the back window - jussayin.

Offline roamer_1

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 17,193
Re: They Asked if People Would Rather Kill a Human or a Sentient Robot
« Reply #134 on: February 11, 2019, 04:06:16 PM »
I am rather polite.

Your kindness is only exceeded by your good looks and gentle manners.
 happy77

Offline Gefn

  • "And though she be but little she is fierce"-Shakespeare
  • Cat Mod
  • ****
  • Posts: 8,480
  • Quos Deus Vult Perdere Prius Dementat
Re: They Asked if People Would Rather Kill a Human or a Sentient Robot
« Reply #135 on: February 11, 2019, 04:08:08 PM »
Bender wants to kill all humans
G-d bless America. G-d bless us all

Adopt a puppy or kitty from your local shelter

Offline Cyber Liberty

  • Coffee! Donuts! Kittens!
  • Administrator
  • ******
  • Posts: 43,062
  • We got 'im now!®
Re: They Asked if People Would Rather Kill a Human or a Sentient Robot
« Reply #136 on: February 11, 2019, 04:11:37 PM »
I have always wanted me a Cowboy Cadillac. Had a few, but always flipped em rather than keeping em... 1T dually 4x4 for me has always been fitted with a dumping flatbed and ladder racks...

But you are out in the country now son... you better get you a pickup of some kind, or folks are gonna look at you funny. And it prolly needs gun racks in the back window - jussayin.

I'm in a city of about 20,000 retirees like me (with a crapton of desert mountains around).  My greatest difficulty lately has been finding disabled parking at the Walmart for our Hybrid Escape.  That said...there are a lot of pickups around here. 

This being AZ, the "Easy Rider" gun racks are assumed...but not for trips to Casinos over the bridge to Nevada.  They are not amused by AZ gun laws. 888mouth
Don't call it the "Federal Government," that's an insult to the Founders.  It's a "National Government."
I will NOT comply.
                          Castillo del Cyber! ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline Cyber Liberty

  • Coffee! Donuts! Kittens!
  • Administrator
  • ******
  • Posts: 43,062
  • We got 'im now!®
Re: They Asked if People Would Rather Kill a Human or a Sentient Robot
« Reply #137 on: February 11, 2019, 04:13:02 PM »
Bender wants to kill all humans

I probably would too, if I lived in a closet.  I think Bender's pretty even-tempered for an Automaton.
Don't call it the "Federal Government," that's an insult to the Founders.  It's a "National Government."
I will NOT comply.
                          Castillo del Cyber! ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline RoosGirl

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 16,809
Re: They Asked if People Would Rather Kill a Human or a Sentient Robot
« Reply #138 on: February 11, 2019, 04:15:04 PM »
Your kindness is only exceeded by your good looks and gentle manners.
 happy77

Bet your ass on that.

Offline roamer_1

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 17,193
Re: They Asked if People Would Rather Kill a Human or a Sentient Robot
« Reply #139 on: February 11, 2019, 04:24:55 PM »
I'm in a city of about 20,000 retirees like me (with a crapton of desert mountains around).  My greatest difficulty lately has been finding disabled parking at the Walmart for our Hybrid Escape.  That said...there are a lot of pickups around here. 

This being AZ, the "Easy Rider" gun racks are assumed...but not for trips to Casinos over the bridge to Nevada.  They are not amused by AZ gun laws. 888mouth

It don't matter at the Wallyworld. It matters at the boneyard, the parts house, the hardware store, the lumber yard, the antique store, or the diner... and anywhere past the city limits. If you want the good guy discount, you've gotta be a good ol boy.

Don't buy a new one... Buy an older model in good shape. I have never paid more than 3500 bucks for a truck in my whole life (and that was only once). Fix it up and make a whole bunch of friends around town in the process.

Besides, if you ever do put your butt in a pickup, you won't go back. No one ever does.
I know it don't make sense to you now, but it will when you do.

Offline roamer_1

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 17,193
Re: They Asked if People Would Rather Kill a Human or a Sentient Robot
« Reply #140 on: February 11, 2019, 04:27:00 PM »
Bet your ass on that.

Damn well right.
 :beer:

Offline Cyber Liberty

  • Coffee! Donuts! Kittens!
  • Administrator
  • ******
  • Posts: 43,062
  • We got 'im now!®
Re: They Asked if People Would Rather Kill a Human or a Sentient Robot
« Reply #141 on: February 11, 2019, 04:40:55 PM »
It don't matter at the Wallyworld. It matters at the boneyard, the parts house, the hardware store, the lumber yard, the antique store, or the diner... and anywhere past the city limits. If you want the good guy discount, you've gotta be a good ol boy.

Don't buy a new one... Buy an older model in good shape. I have never paid more than 3500 bucks for a truck in my whole life (and that was only once). Fix it up and make a whole bunch of friends around town in the process.

Besides, if you ever do put your butt in a pickup, you won't go back. No one ever does.
I know it don't make sense to you now, but it will when you do.

I'm listening at ya.  I'm not a city boy at heart, I was raised in the farm country of Southern Michigan.  "Deep in the palm of the Mitt," so to speak.
Don't call it the "Federal Government," that's an insult to the Founders.  It's a "National Government."
I will NOT comply.
                          Castillo del Cyber! ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline bigheadfred

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 11,340
  • Personal text
Re: They Asked if People Would Rather Kill a Human or a Sentient Robot
« Reply #142 on: February 11, 2019, 05:12:52 PM »
Bender wants to kill all humans

Sooo....still couldn't kill a robot? All you would have to do is take out the batteries.

Offline Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 24,946
Re: They Asked if People Would Rather Kill a Human or a Sentient Robot
« Reply #143 on: February 11, 2019, 05:45:08 PM »
Sentience is nonsense. Consciousness is too. The best a machine can do is mimic life.
However, it can be inhabited, which will be bad.
So, who are the experts who will decide if a machine is sentient?

It sure seems like they can't even decide when human life begins or are hobbled in their efforts by considerations which deny them the will or ability to do so.

IF the conflicts of interest are so strong, despite their subtlety, that we can't define consciousness and sentience within our own species, how in the name of all Creation are they going to get this one right?

With machines, and increasingly with humans, the old acronym applies: GIGO (garbage in, garbage out). Without a scrupulously honest appraisal of what constitutes either sentience or consciousness, without the ability to define those parameters which decide the presence or absence of either, it is readily apparent that there are conflicting interests which place the definitions of when "life" begins, and when life ends at arbitrary milestones, milestones subject to other influences, be those the removal of inconvenient human organisms through 'procedures' which relieve those making the decision of long term commitment and responsibility, or the harvesting of parts for acclaim and even profit (or, for some, and end to expense).

If we can't define that which we ourselves possess, in spite of those conflicts of interest, how will we be able to define such in another species, in a machine, or  even in an alien life form? --Especially if we are unable to communicate with it.

It seems the definitions hinge on the ability, not to think or experience, not to synthesize new thought from old thought and new data, but on the ability to communicate those thoughts.

If my speech was instead in tones which could not be detected by the human ear, or in light forms not visible to the human eye, would I be considered sentient? No. In that there is a typical problem in any communication, that first the data (for want of a better word) must be sent, but also, for communication to occur, it must be received (and understood).

We have arbitrarily defined consciousness as the ability to receive and react to stimuli, but if we do not perceive the reaction, we deny it is present. In the above instances of conflict of interest, such reactions may be written off as mere instinct or reflex, and not a sign of consciousness or sentience.
How many people who have been arbitrarily deemed to be 'brain dead" or in a persistent vegetative state who have eventually revived enough to be able to communicate related that they were aware of the things going on around them, what was said and done, but were unable to communicate that?
Conscious? well, yes, but not so the people around them were aware. Sentient? again, yes, but unable to communicate that. Some consider that a developing child (in utero) will feel no pain, while others play music and read to their growing baby, again, in utero.

Before we go looking for a machine that thinks, perhaps we'd best define what makes our own species conscious or sentient, those who will create, program, and define that machine.

Quote
Ours is an age which is proud of any machine which thinks, and suspicious of any man who tries to.
Howard Mumford Jones
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression


There are no "Socialists", no "Progressives", only Communists, with every negative image that totalitarianism might muster, demanding fealty and conformity to their views, with a legacy of 150,000,000 dead and counting.

Offline Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 24,946
Re: They Asked if People Would Rather Kill a Human or a Sentient Robot
« Reply #144 on: February 11, 2019, 06:04:27 PM »
Which is why I advocate burying a time capsule.... with a well-thought out summary of the way things are and where they are headed and why.... illustrating your wisdom and life-experience knowledge...

in the hopes that somebody will some day find it and get a dose of knowledge that 'the state' didn't want them to have.  It may not end up doing any good in the grand scheme of things....

but who knows, really?   Your capsule writings could move someone to make a change... and/or could end up in a future museum... presuming that there are museums in that future.   :shrug:
Or, written in cursive, be completely indecipherable and used for toilet paper or to start fires...

It is hard to say how many times humanity has had to reinvent the wheel, and even our own view of the past is coloured by Darwinian prejudice that we are the most 'advanced' humans to exist.

Every so often, humans burn the books, tear stuff down, and start over.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression


There are no "Socialists", no "Progressives", only Communists, with every negative image that totalitarianism might muster, demanding fealty and conformity to their views, with a legacy of 150,000,000 dead and counting.

Offline Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 24,946
Re: They Asked if People Would Rather Kill a Human or a Sentient Robot
« Reply #145 on: February 11, 2019, 06:09:56 PM »
ROCKS? You are stealing rocks?
*boggled*

Heck, take your pickup on vacation up into Appalachia - I'd wager they'd GIVE you all the rocks you could handle.  Y'all come on up here and have all the rocks you want.
Oh, cool! We're short a few mountains after the glaciers went through last time.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression


There are no "Socialists", no "Progressives", only Communists, with every negative image that totalitarianism might muster, demanding fealty and conformity to their views, with a legacy of 150,000,000 dead and counting.

Offline Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 24,946
Re: They Asked if People Would Rather Kill a Human or a Sentient Robot
« Reply #146 on: February 11, 2019, 06:12:52 PM »
I probably would too, if I lived in a closet.  I think Bender's pretty even-tempered for an Automaton.
Which raises another question. If machines could become sentient, then, being treated like machines, would they know resentment? Being kept in a closet, would they go insane?
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression


There are no "Socialists", no "Progressives", only Communists, with every negative image that totalitarianism might muster, demanding fealty and conformity to their views, with a legacy of 150,000,000 dead and counting.

Offline bigheadfred

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 11,340
  • Personal text
Re: They Asked if People Would Rather Kill a Human or a Sentient Robot
« Reply #147 on: February 11, 2019, 06:38:32 PM »
2017-Days Of The Future Passed @roamer_1  @Smokin Joe

Meet Sophia: The first robot declared a citizen by Saudi Arabia

Sorry...


There are more videos out there. I really like the description of Blockchain.



Offline bigheadfred

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 11,340
  • Personal text
Re: They Asked if People Would Rather Kill a Human or a Sentient Robot
« Reply #148 on: February 11, 2019, 06:49:24 PM »
This company wants to grow A.I. by using blockchain

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/09/17/hanson-robotics-singularitynet-integrate-blockchain-and-artificial-intelligence.html


Do we need humanoid-looking robots? 
10:54 PM ET Sun, 17 Sept 2017 | 09:40

In the next phase of artificial intelligence development, the firm behind Sophia the robot — who once said she wanted to destroy humans — is integrating blockchain into its work.

Blockchain....hmmmm...

snip

"It's a decentralized, open market for AIs in the cloud so anyone who develops an AI can put it into the SingularityNET, wrap it in our cryptocurrency-based smart contract and then the AI they put there can help to serve the intelligence of robots like Sophia or any other robots or any software programs that need AI," he added.

Offline roamer_1

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 17,193
Re: They Asked if People Would Rather Kill a Human or a Sentient Robot
« Reply #149 on: February 11, 2019, 07:08:34 PM »
So, who are the experts who will decide if a machine is sentient?

More to the point, it literally cannot be sentient.

Quote
IF the conflicts of interest are so strong, despite their subtlety, that we can't define consciousness and sentience within our own species, how in the name of all Creation are they going to get this one right?

by definition, they cannot get it right - But they can create a lively 'image of the beast', having no ingrained morals nor a conscience to guide those morals.

Quote
With machines, and increasingly with humans, the old acronym applies: GIGO (garbage in, garbage out). Without a scrupulously honest appraisal of what constitutes either sentience or consciousness, without the ability to define those parameters which decide the presence or absence of either, it is readily apparent that there are conflicting interests which place the definitions of when "life" begins, and when life ends at arbitrary milestones, milestones subject to other influences, be those the removal of inconvenient human organisms through 'procedures' which relieve those making the decision of long term commitment and responsibility, or the harvesting of parts for acclaim and even profit (or, for some, and end to expense).

And they will forever fail, as the thing that makes sentience is the thing they deny. The soul. There is even a fair argument that !you! are not really here - That your actual being lies beyond the veil, unaware, operating your meat sack by remote. If that is indeed true, how then can sentience be measured at all, as it resides beyond measurement, in dimensions unheard of.

Quote
If we can't define that which we ourselves possess, in spite of those conflicts of interest, how will we be able to define such in another species, in a machine, or  even in an alien life form? --Especially if we are unable to communicate with it.

I would offer the horse, the mule, and the dog in rebuttal - Three old friends - If one cannot see and somewhat understand their sentience, one has never been in close proximity for an extended period.  happy77

Quote
It seems the definitions hinge on the ability, not to think or experience, not to synthesize new thought from old thought and new data, but on the ability to communicate those thoughts.

If my speech was instead in tones which could not be detected by the human ear, or in light forms not visible to the human eye, would I be considered sentient? No. In that there is a typical problem in any communication, that first the data (for want of a better word) must be sent, but also, for communication to occur, it must be received (and understood).

I think that, provided that one can observe, that sentience is not that hard to find... I told a story a while back about getting stuck on top of a mountain range with my dog - I won't recount that, but the gist is that I could readily observe his peace and appreciation of the sun setting across the top of countless ranges... That appreciation of beauty was unmistakable.

A wolf bitch that allows and encourages a man to rescue her pup, fallen halfway down a cliff...
A cow elephant that stands by and lets men rescue her calf, mired in mud... and the appreciation given upon success in both instances...

But the machine is forever a programmed construct that may imitate, but cannot know - it is a machine. it has no soul.

Quote
We have arbitrarily defined consciousness as the ability to receive and react to stimuli, but if we do not perceive the reaction, we deny it is present. In the above instances of conflict of interest, such reactions may be written off as mere instinct or reflex, and not a sign of consciousness or sentience.
How many people who have been arbitrarily deemed to be 'brain dead" or in a persistent vegetative state who have eventually revived enough to be able to communicate related that they were aware of the things going on around them, what was said and done, but were unable to communicate that?
Conscious? well, yes, but not so the people around them were aware. Sentient? again, yes, but unable to communicate that. Some consider that a developing child (in utero) will feel no pain, while others play music and read to their growing baby, again, in utero.

Yes, quite.
There are more things, Horatio...  :beer:

Quote
Before we go looking for a machine that thinks, perhaps we'd best define what makes our own species conscious or sentient, those who will create, program, and define that machine.

That would even then be presumptuous, as we can only observe what we can, and not what lies beyond. And we do know there is a beyond.

Good post.


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf