Author Topic: Trump touts proposed Bible literacy classes in state schools  (Read 16224 times)

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Offline To-Whose-Benefit?

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Re: Trump touts proposed Bible literacy classes in state schools
« Reply #425 on: January 31, 2019, 03:53:19 PM »
Well done Briefers.

I would quote to put this @roamer_1 post here so it gets seen by anyone who hasn't read through this whole exchange yet, and are just checking to see how it ended.

Excellent Sir!

Nicely stated, @ABX , but I will take exception to it, as I truly think it is the other way around.

More and more I think the thing that keeps a society coloring between the lines, is the continuity between all aspects of a society. In part you are right - in that part - But I think it goes the other way around. I think religion has recoiled from society into the homes thereof precisely because it can no longer survive in the broader sphere. And in that, polite society, *all of it*, has also retreated, and we are left with cacophony and crime.

All of it is applied with force - Folks know how important that homogeneity is in culture, and folks have stood up to fight this infection at every turn, because it is so important to a culture.

We have not gone down this path on our own. It has been imposed. Every single thing that is the glue of culture has been purposefully eroded,and law has been used to continue that erosion, preventing folks from fixing the problem.

You are seeing the result of that imposition, and the continuing liberalism, beginning in the cities and leeching out like a poison into the countryside... Even now, the very heartland has become infected, and there is little left that can be done, without what's left standing up come hell or high water, as a people, and saying oh hell no, and putting it back the way it was.

But that is becoming ever harder to do - because this grim disease is no longer hidden in metaphors and and things spoken in whispers... It strides boldly in the halls of power. It owns federal law. It owns the media. It owns corporate board rooms.

It pours this vile shit down the throats of our young, taxes us blind, using our own money to give itself impetus, doubling and redoubling with every generation.

People have fought against it for decades, but our own laws have been perverted to stand in our way, against a foe 3000 miles away...

Given their own head, with the law to protect them, most communities would outlaw abortion. Most would outlaw gay marriage, most would instill morality into their community, just like they always have. If you think my little town would not put those 10 commandments back in front of the courthouse and back in every classroom, and would not re-institute public prayer, and do everything they could to put sin back on the other side of the tracks, you've got another think coming.

We cannot. It is being prevented and smothered as another culture is imposed from on high.
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Online roamer_1

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Re: Trump touts proposed Bible literacy classes in state schools
« Reply #426 on: January 31, 2019, 05:25:45 PM »
Well done Briefers.

I would quote to put this @roamer_1 post here so it gets seen by anyone who hasn't read through this whole exchange yet, and are just checking to see how it ended.

Excellent Sir!

Thanks to you @To-Whose-Benefit? , and all the others who have commented on that post...

I would offer in closing, what was the surprise to me was how even on a Conservative site, That some here have such an anti-Christian bias that they would prefer a brittle federal edict to the calm confines of federalism - That is truly a division I would not expect.

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Re: Trump touts proposed Bible literacy classes in state schools
« Reply #427 on: January 31, 2019, 05:29:33 PM »
Thanks to you @To-Whose-Benefit? , and all the others who have commented on that post...

I would offer in closing, what was the surprise to me was how even on a Conservative site, That some here have such an anti-Christian bias that they would prefer a brittle federal edict to the calm confines of federalism - That is truly a division I would not expect.

Perhaps that's because their anti-Christian bias doesn't come from a rational place (to state the obvious).

It's entirely emotional, so they can't see the anti-Conservatism that comes with their bigotry.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2019, 05:30:09 PM by musiclady »
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Re: Trump touts proposed Bible literacy classes in state schools
« Reply #428 on: January 31, 2019, 05:38:09 PM »
Thanks to you @To-Whose-Benefit? , and all the others who have commented on that post...

I would offer in closing, what was the surprise to me was how even on a Conservative site, That some here have such an anti-Christian bias that they would prefer a brittle federal edict to the calm confines of federalism - That is truly a division I would not expect.

Perhaps that's because their anti-Christian bias doesn't come from a rational place (to state the obvious).

It's entirely emotional, so they can't see the anti-Conservatism that comes with their bigotry.

QFT, on both.
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Offline Emjay

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Re: Trump touts proposed Bible literacy classes in state schools
« Reply #429 on: January 31, 2019, 05:41:28 PM »
Well done Briefers.

I would quote to put this @roamer_1 post here so it gets seen by anyone who hasn't read through this whole exchange yet, and are just checking to see how it ended.

Excellent Sir!

Ok, still bearing the scars from jumping in on page 8 of another subject so I'm not responding to anyone, but Bible literacy is something people should know.  It should be as important to Jews and Christians as the Koran is to Muslims.

It is always the best selling book and it is a bedrock of society.  It's just logical that people should know the basics of it, which is certainly not forcing religion down anyone's throat or any other body part.
Against stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in vain.

Online roamer_1

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Re: Trump touts proposed Bible literacy classes in state schools
« Reply #430 on: January 31, 2019, 05:53:56 PM »
Perhaps that's because their anti-Christian bias doesn't come from a rational place (to state the obvious).

It's entirely emotional, so they can't see the anti-Conservatism that comes with their bigotry.

I can see that - But it is antithetical, and in direct opposition to Conservative thought - As much as is possible, federalism is designed to let folks be, and let them govern themselves (as a people, a county or town, and as a state), as they see fit.

And in the offing, it provides at least 50, and more likely thousands of little petri dishes where folks can try things out and adopt that which works best for them. That is what the federal edict removes.

If in fact the naysayers are right, then there is nothing to stop them from moving, banding together, and try their own experiment to prove their case and their cause...

I would not stop them, and see it as their right... But they would stop me, and every other person, by issuing from on high. That is not Conservatism.

Offline To-Whose-Benefit?

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Re: Trump touts proposed Bible literacy classes in state schools
« Reply #431 on: January 31, 2019, 06:01:36 PM »
Perhaps that's because their anti-Christian bias doesn't come from a rational place (to state the obvious).

It's entirely emotional, so they can't see the anti-Conservatism that comes with their bigotry.


They equate the excesses of the Church itself (a huge, very well organized and Filthy Rich Bureaucracy) with the workaday members/parishioners.

Same argument we have with Big v Small Govt.

The Medieval Church believed itself to be superior to all other heads of state/kings/queens.

Somewhere along the way the Papacy confused being the Vicar of Christ with being the King of Kings itself.


And as PJ O'Rourke's maxim holds: "Giving money and power to Govt is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys."

Don't matter Who Your Guy Is, they're Going to screw it up.
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Online roamer_1

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Re: Trump touts proposed Bible literacy classes in state schools
« Reply #432 on: January 31, 2019, 06:14:55 PM »

Don't matter Who Your Guy Is, they're Going to screw it up.

That's right. Keep it all small and close to home, as a general principle.

That does not mean the same thing as keep it *IN* the home and no where else...
Where then lies the moral sense of a people?

Morality cannot be kept out of law. Law is in fact an extension of morality. Nor can it be kept out of society, because there is no moral neutral.

The only question that remains is whose morality one would prefer. Taking away one will get you another.

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Re: Trump touts proposed Bible literacy classes in state schools
« Reply #433 on: January 31, 2019, 06:34:46 PM »
And as PJ O'Rourke's maxim holds: "Giving money and power to Govt is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys."

Ol' Peej is correct about a lot more things than he's wrong about.  This line is one of his best.  I really liked Parliament of Whores.  Great book, cover to cover.
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Offline LegalAmerican

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Re: Trump touts proposed Bible literacy classes in state schools
« Reply #434 on: February 02, 2019, 07:36:01 PM »
Well done Briefers.

I would quote to put this @roamer_1 post here so it gets seen by anyone who hasn't read through this whole exchange yet, and are just checking to see how it ended.

Excellent Sir!


Our constitution was made for, a moral & religious people only. S. ADAMS.  THE CONSTITUTION CAME FROM THE BASIC PRINCIPLES FROM the Bible.  24  of our founding fathers of the 55, came from Clergy or sons of clergy. All were Christian.
TWO..two were Diest. Most were Episcopalian's.  Memory? 47%.

Offline txradioguy

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Re: Trump touts proposed Bible literacy classes in state schools
« Reply #435 on: February 03, 2019, 02:32:31 PM »

Our constitution was made for, a moral & religious people only.

It was made for all Americans.  Regardless of race or religious background.  I know some very patriotic defenders of the Constitution and what America stands for who are either atheist or agnostic.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

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Offline LMAO

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Re: Trump touts proposed Bible literacy classes in state schools
« Reply #436 on: February 03, 2019, 02:33:33 PM »
It was made for all Americans.  Regardless of race or religious background.  I know some very patriotic defenders of the Constitution and what America stands for who are either atheist or agnostic.

 :patriot:
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Re: Trump touts proposed Bible literacy classes in state schools
« Reply #437 on: February 03, 2019, 02:44:01 PM »
It was made for all Americans.  Regardless of race or religious background.  I know some very patriotic defenders of the Constitution and what America stands for who are either atheist or agnostic.

@LegalAmerican @txradioguy @LMAO

Anyone who thinks we are still living under the form of government our founders gave us should take five minutes of their time to read this and disabuse themselves of that silly notion!

http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,350127.msg1907684.html#msg1907684
« Last Edit: February 03, 2019, 02:44:41 PM by Bigun »

Offline skeeter

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Re: Trump touts proposed Bible literacy classes in state schools
« Reply #438 on: February 03, 2019, 03:18:08 PM »
It was made for all Americans.  Regardless of race or religious background.  I know some very patriotic defenders of the Constitution and what America stands for who are either atheist or agnostic.

Yes its for all Americans. But without acknowledging a creator there's no way to know from whom our liberties descend, which is the very basis of our form of government.

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Re: Trump touts proposed Bible literacy classes in state schools
« Reply #439 on: February 03, 2019, 05:16:47 PM »
It was made for all Americans.  Regardless of race or religious background.  I know some very patriotic defenders of the Constitution and what America stands for who are either atheist or agnostic.

@txradioguy

BINGO! It was made to protect ALL Americans.
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Offline txradioguy

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Re: Trump touts proposed Bible literacy classes in state schools
« Reply #440 on: February 05, 2019, 10:39:46 AM »
But without acknowledging a creator there's no way to know from whom our liberties descend, which is the very basis of our form of government.

@skeeter I agree completely.  But the 1st Amendment also allows those that don't believe in a creator to believer that without any kind of punishment or retribution.

The Framers and the Founders understood where our rights came from...but they also ensured those that don't believe in a creator would be allowed to enjoy those same liberties and freedoms.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

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Offline skeeter

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Re: Trump touts proposed Bible literacy classes in state schools
« Reply #441 on: February 05, 2019, 10:45:09 AM »
@skeeter I agree completely.  But the 1st Amendment also allows those that don't believe in a creator to believer that without any kind of punishment or retribution.

The Framers and the Founders understood where our rights came from...but they also ensured those that don't believe in a creator would be allowed to enjoy those same liberties and freedoms.

Of course thats true. I just wonder how long we can expect to hold on to our way of life when an increasing percentage of those voting do not understand why they enjoy what dwindling liberties we have left.

Online sneakypete

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Re: Trump touts proposed Bible literacy classes in state schools
« Reply #442 on: February 05, 2019, 10:50:56 AM »
Of course thats true. I just wonder how long we can expect to hold on to our way of life when an increasing percentage of those voting do not understand why they enjoy what dwindling liberties we have left.

@skeeter

That's not the problem. The problem is they KNOW about these liberties,and have nothing but contempt for them.

There is no such critter as a Stalinist that loves liberty.
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Offline txradioguy

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Re: Trump touts proposed Bible literacy classes in state schools
« Reply #443 on: February 05, 2019, 10:55:59 AM »
Of course thats true. I just wonder how long we can expect to hold on to our way of life when an increasing percentage of those voting do not understand why they enjoy what dwindling liberties we have left.

It's gonna be a fight for sure...and our backs are already against the wall.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline skeeter

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Re: Trump touts proposed Bible literacy classes in state schools
« Reply #444 on: February 05, 2019, 11:04:12 AM »
@skeeter

That's not the problem. The problem is they KNOW about these liberties,and have nothing but contempt for them.

There is no such critter as a Stalinist that loves liberty.

Well as @txradioguy says there's a fight coming.

Online roamer_1

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Re: Trump touts proposed Bible literacy classes in state schools
« Reply #445 on: February 05, 2019, 11:09:46 AM »
@skeeter I agree completely.  But the 1st Amendment also allows those that don't believe in a creator to believer that without any kind of punishment or retribution.

The Framers and the Founders understood where our rights came from...but they also ensured those that don't believe in a creator would be allowed to enjoy those same liberties and freedoms.

@txradioguy
Within the context of good order - And that is where you will run into trouble. Order implies/dictates morality, and morality demands an ethos. We are a nation of laws, that is true, but those laws necessarily reflect ethics, and without naming that, you will inevitably wind up in moral relativism.

So it is well to proclaim men free to believe as they will - but in order to have a nation, they must act in unison ethically, or there is no law, and no liberty.

Thus it is yet necessary to define that ethos  and where it comes from, believe it or not.

Offline txradioguy

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Re: Trump touts proposed Bible literacy classes in state schools
« Reply #446 on: February 05, 2019, 11:15:43 AM »
@txradioguy
Within the context of good order - And that is where you will run into trouble. Order implies/dictates morality, and morality demands an ethos. We are a nation of laws, that is true, but those laws necessarily reflect ethics, and without naming that, you will inevitably wind up in moral relativism.

So it is well to proclaim men free to believe as they will - but in order to have a nation, they must act in unison ethically, or there is no law, and no liberty.

Thus it is yet necessary to define that ethos  and where it comes from, believe it or not.

No argument from me.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline Hoodat

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Re: Trump touts proposed Bible literacy classes in state schools
« Reply #447 on: February 05, 2019, 03:13:53 PM »
@txradioguy
Within the context of good order - And that is where you will run into trouble. Order implies/dictates morality, and morality demands an ethos.

All laws are ultimately a reflection of someone's moral code, whether it is protecting pedestrians by prohibiting jaywalking, or by granting them right of way on all streets and highways.  The purpose of our Founding Fathers was to make it possible for the members of a society to come together and establish a moral code under which they choose to live.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

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Online roamer_1

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Re: Trump touts proposed Bible literacy classes in state schools
« Reply #448 on: February 05, 2019, 03:25:02 PM »
All laws are ultimately a reflection of someone's moral code, whether it is protecting pedestrians by prohibiting jaywalking, or by granting them right of way on all streets and highways.  The purpose of our Founding Fathers was to make it possible for the members of a society to come together and establish a moral code under which they choose to live.

Right, but that can only be achieved through a shared ethos. Otherwise, like the Tower of Babel, what results is divisiveness and confusion (like we are experiencing now).

Offline LegalAmerican

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Re: Trump touts proposed Bible literacy classes in state schools
« Reply #449 on: February 05, 2019, 03:32:18 PM »
All laws are ultimately a reflection of someone's moral code, whether it is protecting pedestrians by prohibiting jaywalking, or by granting them right of way on all streets and highways.  The purpose of our Founding Fathers was to make it possible for the members of a society to come together and establish a moral code under which they choose to live.



........... :thumbsup:

Well said.  All the others want to compose lofty words in an ivory tower.  You speak plain truth. 


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