Author Topic: Either bored or because he was bluffing, Trump blinks on State of the Union  (Read 6590 times)

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Offline the_doc

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Trump lost this round.  To suggest otherwise is to believe that giving up a touchdown is part of a winning team's game plan.


I note with interest your mixing of metaphors.  You started off by characterizing the fight as a boxing match;  that is perhaps (?) appropriate.  But I think that jumping immediately to a football metaphor is a mistake.  Why?  Well, you pointed out (correctly) that giving up a touchdown is not a strategy for winning a football game.  But this mess we're watching from the safety of home is not a mere game of violence--nor is a boxing match, for that matter. 

The struggle between Trump and Pelosi is a knock-down, drag-out contest of a bloody mess of shrewdness, strength, timing, and endurance--not to mention unbridled one-on-one hostility.   Both contestants are trying not to get beaten to death.  But the ability to take punches and survive at the cost of a round--and the willingness to take those punches over the short term--does happen to be part of a well-recognized strategy for setting up a devastating comeback to win a bout.

Just be patient.  I honestly believe Trump knows what he is doing.  And I honestly believe most people don't.     

Offline DB

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If he would just give the state of the union as required by the constitution some place else other than the house it would cut the house out of it entirely.

All the jeers, camera posing and virtue signalling with Pelosi holding the gavel behind the President in front of all the cameras would be gone. Call their bluff. Take them out of the spot light. And how can Pelosi offer a rebuttal from the house if the house was unable to open its doors to the President?

Play hardball and make them pay.

Offline HoustonSam

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I note with interest your mixing of metaphors.  You started off by characterizing the fight as a boxing match;  that is perhaps (?) appropriate.  But I think that jumping immediately to a football metaphor is a mistake.  Why?  Well, you pointed out (correctly) that giving up a touchdown is not a strategy for winning a football game.  But this mess we're watching from the safety of home is not a mere game of violence--nor is a boxing match, for that matter. 

The struggle between Trump and Pelosi is a knock-down, drag-out contest of a bloody mess of shrewdness, strength, timing, and endurance--not to mention unbridled one-on-one hostility.   Both contestants are trying not to get beaten to death.  But the ability to take punches and survive at the cost of a round--and the willingness to take those punches over the short term--does happen to be part of a well-recognized strategy for setting up a devastating comeback to win a bout.

Just be patient.  I honestly believe Trump knows what he is doing.  And I honestly believe most people don't.   

Good call out on the mixed metaphors @the_doc.  I can't honestly claim to have thought about the mixing, and even if I had, you are certainly correct that metaphors are of limited validity.

I would like to see a devastating come-back from POTUS, but I'm afraid I don't have that much confidence in Trump; I *don't* think he knows what he is doing.  Honed street fighting instincts, while certainly valuable and beyond the grasp of the Republican establishment, do not compensate for the weakness that comes with narcissism.

I think @DB, immediately between our comments here, has it exactly right.  Trump really doesn't need the House chamber.  If he actually *were* the alpha male he pretends to be he would recognize that.
James 1:20

Offline Jazzhead

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Trump really doesn't need the House chamber.  If he actually *were* the alpha male he pretends to be he would recognize that.

It's not that simple.   Trump could give the speech somewhere else, but then the story becomes that somewhere else, and how Pelosi forced him there.   

Trump wants everyone to listen to what he has to say in the speech.   That will be impossible if the speech takes place in the context of a slapping match.   

It's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide

Offline the_doc

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@HoustonSam
@DB
@Jazzhead
@mystery-ak
If he would just give the state of the union as required by the constitution some place else other than the house it would cut the house out of it entirely.

The problem with this is that it would cut out almost all of the American viewership.  That's Trump's one and only concern at this time.

Bill O'Reilly revealed on the radio today that the only reason why Trump agreed to wait to give the SOTU speech until after the government shutdown is the fact that all of the (MSM?) networks flatly refused to televise the speech if delivered anywhere other than the Capitol. That "anywhere" apparently rules out even the Oval Office.

As I have said repeatedly, Trump is determined to deliver a bombshell SOTU speech that will be viewed by the highest possible number of Americans.  This is precisely why Pelosi has used politically unprecedented tricks to try to force Trump not to present the SOTU as a speech, but as a letter to Congress (which is all that the Constitution actually requires, in fact).  The MSM is in collusion with the Dems in this politically nasty effort.  (They would, of course, neglect to cover anything really important in a written SOTU address.)  Ted Cruz has stated publicly that Pelosi is badly frightened by the prospect of letting Trump speak directly to the American people.  That's all the more reason for Trump to wait until he can demand that Pelosi re-open the Capitol to him--with TV cameras and all.)

I suspect that the only thing that surprised Trump in the most recent round of the fight was the fact that the MSM would dare to refuse airing the SOTU address merely on the flimsy excuse that it was delivered somewhere other than the Capitol.  (Trump has not underestimated the Dems.  But I think that even Trump "misunderestimated" the MSM's willingness to show so clearly its incredibly unethical, incredibly crooked hand in the whole mess.  [I confess that the MSM surprised even me in this regard--but I'm actually pleased by their show of their own political insanity.])

Yeah, the MSM really is one of America's biggest enemies.  No doubt about it.  And I believe Trump will make sure that a rapidly growing number of people realize this through recent developments.  I believe he will make the MSM pay dearly for their flagrantly un-American, anti-democratic behavior.  I believe that signing off on a CR that does not fund the wall, per se, and then immediately announcing that the military is now clearly authorized to build it--authorized by the very dereliction of the crooked Progressives in Congress and the MSM--will win the overall battle for Trump. 

Remember:  Trump doesn't need to win a knockout or even a knockdown with every move in the fight.  He just needs to land the last devastating punch in the fight.  (That won't happen until the military prosecutions begin--which may very well get moved up on Trump's schedule now.  Prosecuting top FBI officials and [then?] the Clintons will open up the most awful Pandora's box in American history--which mess will also snare our amazingly evil MSM.)

Right now, I see everything as proceeding per Trump's plan--with the normal fits and starts (and deceptions) of war.  I am as optimistic as ever.  (A lot of anti-Trumpers have called Trump an idiot.  Well, he's a strangely crass dude, not at all likeable for a lot of "more conspicuously decent" folks, but he seems to be very good in these fights.  [That's why the Dems are surely desperate to see him murdered--hopefully along with Pence, thereby making Pelosi our POTUS, of course.  Under these deadly circumstances, we'd better come together behind our duly elected President Trump])
« Last Edit: January 25, 2019, 07:21:23 pm by the_doc »

Offline Cyber Liberty

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I tend not to support people who lied to me about their #1 promise made to get elected.   :shrug:
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline Absalom

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I agree completely.  The master negotiator, the ninja of flying, invisible, ninth-level stealth jedi chess just sacrificed the long game to his own ego.
-----------------------------------
On the mark as Trump, absorbed in his narcissism,
craves msm attention even when they're urinating on him.

Offline the_doc

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I tend not to support people who lied to me about their #1 promise made to get elected.   :shrug:

Which campaign lie are you talking about?  (Just curious.  He has "flubbed" on more than one promise.)

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Which campaign lie are you talking about?  (Just curious.  He has "flubbed" on more than one promise.)

I'm at a bit of a loss.  I haven't met a politician who isn't willing to renege on his/her #1 promise.  (I've known a lot of them, and it's their nature to renege on promises.)

In this case, the promise I wanted delivered the most was the border wall because I live in AZ and had a BIL murdered here because of the lack of a wall.  It's a local issue for me.  Now, it's never going to happen.  It won't get through Congress now, and if the President goes with a declaration of an "emergency" to get it done it will be tied up in the courts for years, well past the 2020 Election.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline the_doc

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I'm at a bit of a loss.  I haven't met a politician who isn't willing to renege on his/her #1 promise.  (I've known a lot of them, and it's their nature to renege on promises.)

In this case, the promise I wanted delivered the most was the border wall because I live in AZ and had a BIL murdered here because of the lack of a wall.  It's a local issue for me.  Now, it's never going to happen.  It won't get through Congress now, and if the President goes with a declaration of an "emergency" to get it done it will be tied up in the courts for years, well past the 2020 Election.

I understand your bitterness, and I'm not surprised that it explains your pessimism even if I am not personally so pessimistic as you are.  I also understand that your bitterness darkly colors your language, but I think it's a bit too pejorative to style President Trump's failure to get the wall built as proof that he was lying about his intentions during the campaign.  He's still working on it.  He has to be very, very careful negotiating the legal minefield. 

(I'm not sure that even loveable, handsome, super-brilliant guys like you and me would have done a much better job than Trump has done by now, under the circumstances.)

President Trump is also still working on what I personally considered to be his #1 campaign promise--to arrest and prosecute HRC.  A lot of folks have said that Trump was lying when he promised to lock her up.  What they don't realize is that the Clintons are the tip of an iceberg of corruption--and Trump intends down to destroy the whole monster of the Deep State during his Presidency.

I think we all need to pray for the safety of the Trump/Pence team.  A President Pelosi would be our doom.

Offline Cyber Liberty

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I understand your bitterness, and I'm not surprised that it explains your pessimism even if I am not personally so pessimistic as you are.  I also understand that your bitterness darkly colors your language, but I think it's a bit too pejorative to style President Trump's failure to get the wall built as proof that he was lying about his intentions during the campaign.  He's still working on it.  He has to be very, very careful negotiating the legal minefield. 

(I'm not sure that even loveable, handsome, super-brilliant guys like you and me would have done a much better job than Trump has done by now, under the circumstances.)

President Trump is also still working on what I personally considered to be his #1 campaign promise--to arrest and prosecute HRC.  A lot of folks have said that Trump was lying when he promised to lock her up.  What they don't realize is that the Clintons are the tip of an iceberg of corruption--and Trump intends down to destroy the whole monster of the Deep State during his Presidency.

I think we all need to pray for the safety of the Trump/Pence team.  A President Pelosi would be our doom.

I can agree with most of that, except I really do think the President lied about how much he wanted that wall.  If he were telling the truth, this battle would have been about two years ago.  "Lie" is not too strong a word here.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline DB

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I can agree with most of that, except I really do think the President lied about how much he wanted that wall.  If he were telling the truth, this battle would have been about two years ago.  "Lie" is not too strong a word here.

Trump is the very same man that said in 2012 that Mitt Romney was "mean-spirited" for campaigning on motivating illegals to leave the country. The truth is self evident with any honest observation. The art of the deal is about getting what he wants. Everything else is secondary.

Offline dfwgator

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I can agree with most of that, except I really do think the President lied about how much he wanted that wall.  If he were telling the truth, this battle would have been about two years ago.  "Lie" is not too strong a word here.

"If something needs to be done eventually, it needs to be done immediately."

Offline Cyber Liberty

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BTW, @the_doc.

I am not "bitter."  I don't get bitter, especially when it comes to promises by politician.  If I did, I'd be dead by now.  I do, however, get disappointed from time to time.   I am sorry if I somehow gave you the impression my words are inspired by bitterness, but they are instead inspired by years of experience dealing with these lowlifes.

For a brief while there, I thought Trump could rise above that, but I just watched him throw it all away because if a threat he wouldn't get to deliver his beautiful, wonderful speech.  It reinforces every bad thing I've read about him on TBR.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline Sanguine

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I listened to Dan Bongino's podcast this afternoon.  He had recorded it before the big Trump retreat, and was really positive about Pelosi and the Dems being on the fence now and getting pressure to negotiate.  He thought Trump had won this battle by standing tough.  I'll have to listen to him Monday and see what he thinks now.

Offline EasyAce

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If he would just give the state of the union as required by the constitution some place else other than the house it would cut the house out of it entirely.
Constitutionally, I don't think he can.

Quote
Article II, Section 3
[The President] shall from time to time give to the Congress Information on the State of the Union . . .

Seemingly, that means he must give it to Congress directly, either in writing or---as has been the unfortunate practise since that buttinski Wilson turned it into a g@ddam semi-royal proclamation event---in the House before a joint session. I suspect that if he decided to give it in a tweetstorm or on television from the Oval Office or from some other podium somewhere else, President Tweety would run afoul of the Constitution. (Not that he necessarily cares about the Constitution, of course . . . but surely someone among his White House stooges would try to inform him appropriately.)

Personally, I've been in longtime favour of doing away with the bloody joint session pageant of it and returning the State of the Union to being a message in writing delivered to Congress, from which Congress can insert it into the Congressional Record and nobody's required or obligated to read the damn thing, unless they're masochistic enough to thrive on reading Me! I'm the One! speeches at the drop of the proverbial hat.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2019, 02:41:32 am by EasyAce »


"The question of who is right is a small one, indeed, beside the question of what is right."---Albert Jay Nock.

Fake news---news you don't like or don't want to hear.

Offline the_doc

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Trump is the very same man that said in 2012 that Mitt Romney was "mean-spirited" for campaigning on motivating illegals to leave the country. The truth is self evident with any honest observation. The art of the deal is about getting what he wants. Everything else is secondary.

I'll bet he meant it at the time even if his beliefs were horribly shallow at the time.  Remember:  He was a naïve New York billionaire who ran around with the likes of the Clintons.

I would also bet that Trump has changed his mind about almost everything ideological since his epiphany in about 2015 concerning the reality and profoundly evil designs of the Deep State.  And I'm absolutely certain that his hatred of the Deep State has only grown since 2016.  After all, they are trying to destroy him.  That ain't kabuki theater. So, don't sell him short.  Watch carefully what he is doing over the next few months. 

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I'll bet he meant it at the time even if his beliefs were horribly shallow at the time.  Remember:  He was a naïve New York billionaire who ran around with the likes of the Clintons.

I would also bet that Trump has changed his mind about almost everything ideological since his epiphany in about 2015 concerning the reality and profoundly evil designs of the Deep State.  And I'm absolutely certain that his hatred of the Deep State has only grown since 2016.  After all, they are trying to destroy him.  That ain't kabuki theater. So, don't sell him short.  Watch carefully what he is doing over the next few months. 

What epiphany was that?

Offline corbe

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   I just don't see it @the_doc and I speak from experience, being an old man 5 years younger than him.  Normally, we don't change significantly, we just adapt to the circumstances and justify in 'our' head somehow to continue along the path, happily and 3 years ago I was the same.
   Unfortunately for all involved, including me, I am obviously very stubborn and not likely to compromise on what got me this far.

   Long story Short, he hasn't changed in the last 20 years.
No government in the 12,000 years of modern mankind history has led its people into anything but the history books with a simple lesson, don't let this happen to you.

Offline DB

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Constitutionally, I don't think he can.

Seemingly, that means he must give it to Congress directly, either in writing or---as has been the unfortunate practise since that buttinski Wilson turned it into a g@ddam semi-royal proclamation event---in the House before a joint session. I suspect that if he decided to give it in a tweetstorm or on television from the Oval Office or from some other podium somewhere else, President Tweety would run afoul of the Constitution. (Not that he necessarily cares about the Constitution, of course . . . but surely someone among his White House stooges would try to inform him appropriately.)

Personally, I've been in longtime favour of doing away with the bloody joint session pageant of it and returning the State of the Union to being a message in writing delivered to Congress, from which Congress can insert it into the Congressional Record and nobody's required or obligated to read the damn thing, unless they're masochistic enough to thrive on reading Me! I'm the One! speeches at the drop of the proverbial hat.

A number of presidents sent written state of the unions without going before congress in person at all. It was constitutional then.

Offline Absalom

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   I just don't see it @the_doc and I speak from experience, being an old man 5 years younger than him.  Normally, we don't change significantly, we just adapt to the circumstances and justify in 'our' head somehow to continue along the path, happily and 3 years ago I was the same.
   Unfortunately for all involved, including me, I am obviously very stubborn and not likely to compromise on what got me this far.

   Long story Short, he hasn't changed in the last 20 years.
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she and her husband sent him to a Military Academy when he was 12!!!!!

Offline EasyAce

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A number of presidents sent written state of the unions without going before congress in person at all. It was constitutional then.
The key is that the written messages were sent to Congress. It would still be quite constitutional to revert to that practise. God only knows I wish it would, once and for all. But delivering it as a spoken address from any venue other than Congress itself could be very unconstitutional.


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Offline DB

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What epiphany was that?

The "epiphany" they imagine is to assuage their conscience for voting for what they voted for. Never mind the obvious.

Offline DB

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The key is that the written messages were sent to Congress. It would still be quite constitutional to revert to that practise. God only knows I wish it would, once and for all. But delivering it as a spoken address from any venue other than Congress itself could be very unconstitutional.

There's the senate chambers.

Offline the_doc

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There's the senate chambers.
The Senate Chamber is unavailable when the Speaker of the House declares the entire Capitol off limits to the POTUS.  She actually has that authority.