Author Topic: Stupidity should be cured, says DNA discoverer  (Read 1174 times)

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Offline rangerrebew

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Stupidity should be cured, says DNA discoverer
« on: January 14, 2019, 10:30:35 AM »
Stupidity should be cured, says DNA discoverer

By Shaoni Bhattacharya

Fifty years to the day from the discovery of the structure of DNA, one of its co-discoverers has caused a storm by suggesting that stupidity is a genetic disease that should be cured.

On 28 February 1953 biologists James Watson and Francis Crick discovered the structure of DNA – the chemical code for all life. The breakthrough revealed how genetic information is passed from one generation to the next and revolutionised biology and medicine.

But in a documentary series to be screened in the UK on Channel 4, Watson says that low intelligence is an inherited disorder and that molecular biologists have a duty to devise gene therapies or screening tests to tackle stupidity.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn3451-stupidity-should-be-cured-says-dna-discoverer/
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Offline Sanguine

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Re: Stupidity should be cured, says DNA discoverer
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2019, 11:02:26 AM »
Ah, modern eugenics.
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Offline Free Vulcan

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Re: Stupidity should be cured, says DNA discoverer
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2019, 11:59:03 AM »
The Democrats are horrified at the thought of this.
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Offline Sanguine

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Re: Stupidity should be cured, says DNA discoverer
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2019, 12:02:32 PM »
"I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials." – George Mason, Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 1788

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Offline truth_seeker

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Re: Stupidity should be cured, says DNA discoverer
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2019, 01:35:51 PM »
Ah, modern eugenics.

The popular field of DNA for genealogy (cousin-matching), extends   and includes medicine/health aspects.

I understand 23 and Me, uses a detailed questionarrie about family health, in order to identify DNA "markers," that might correlate to medical conditions.

My next door neighbor is a 40-something fatherof four, lawyer, with a nasty blood cancer disease. He has been treated with stem cells (don't know any details).


My brother died at 37 from Leukemia. No match good enough for a marrow transplant was found.

Angel baseball player's daughter died of Leukemia a few years later. Her mother was Russian Jewish, and a huge search failed  to find a transplant match for her.


I fully approve of DNA/genetics science for medical advancements and for saving peoples' lives.

It may one day be possible to learn from DNA tests, which diseases/disorders a person is at risk for earlier, and to implement treatments.


We already know a lot about IQ and stupidity, but I'll stay out of that, although there is ample science.





 



"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Stupidity should be cured, says DNA discoverer
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2019, 01:41:36 PM »
I think there is more to stupidity than simple genetics. Granted, the framework must be there, the biological hardware, but so much stupidity is the result of lack of practical experience and use of the hardware. That's programmed in after the brain is formed.
So, we're back to the old question:

Nature or Nurture?
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Offline Sanguine

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Re: Stupidity should be cured, says DNA discoverer
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2019, 01:45:40 PM »
I think there is more to stupidity than simple genetics. Granted, the framework must be there, the biological hardware, but so much stupidity is the result of lack of practical experience and use of the hardware. That's programmed in after the brain is formed.
So, we're back to the old question:

Nature or Nurture?

There's a difference between IQ (potential ability) and stupidity (actuality).  And, there are differing average IQs between different groups of people, but of the problems that arise with that is in how you define the group, and the fact that the average IQ applies to the group but tells you nothing about the actual IQs of an individual.
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Stupidity should be cured, says DNA discoverer
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2019, 01:57:56 PM »
There's a difference between IQ (potential ability) and stupidity (actuality).  And, there are differing average IQs between different groups of people, but of the problems that arise with that is in how you define the group, and the fact that the average IQ applies to the group but tells you nothing about the actual IQs of an individual.
While I agree, there are differing levels of ability, the lack of use of that ability, like tools left in the rain, won't mean a thing in the long run. Without that drive, the desire to use it, it's just a waste. Is that drive also genetic, or is it learned, picked up from the people in your surroundings?
Having all the artistic ability in the world doesn't matter if you never pick up a pencil or paintbrush...and if your culture decries such, chances are you won't shine any brighter than the drab and dull souls around you.

I guess the question applies, not to potential, but to the end results, again: A product of Nature or Nurture?

(The crux of Puddinhead Wilson by Mark Twain, the book they didn't mention when I was in school).
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Offline Fishrrman

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Re: Stupidity should be cured, says DNA discoverer
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2019, 08:15:30 PM »
Smokin' Joe asks:
"So, we're back to the old question:
Nature or Nurture?"


As time goes by and new discoveries are made (particularly in genetics), I sense the answer will weigh far more towards the former, than the latter...

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Stupidity should be cured, says DNA discoverer
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2019, 08:21:06 PM »
Smokin' Joe asks:
"So, we're back to the old question:
Nature or Nurture?"


As time goes by and new discoveries are made (particularly in genetics), I sense the answer will weigh far more towards the former, than the latter...
That was the conclusion Twain apparently came to.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression


There are no "Socialists", no "Progressives", only Communists, with every negative image that totalitarianism might muster, demanding fealty and conformity to their views, with a legacy of 150,000,000 dead and counting.

Offline Frank Cannon

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Re: Stupidity should be cured, says DNA discoverer
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2019, 08:26:40 PM »
If we cure stupidity who in the hell am I going to make fun of?

Offline Sanguine

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Re: Stupidity should be cured, says DNA discoverer
« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2019, 08:32:12 PM »
Smokin' Joe asks:
"So, we're back to the old question:
Nature or Nurture?"


As time goes by and new discoveries are made (particularly in genetics), I sense the answer will weigh far more towards the former, than the latter...

IQ has a very strong heredity factor. 
"I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials." – George Mason, Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 1788

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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Stupidity should be cured, says DNA discoverer
« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2019, 08:38:22 PM »
IQ has a very strong heredity factor.
Yep. But if your parents are the sort who have high IQs, you are far more likely to grow up in an environment where learning is expected and encouraged, and daily subjected to the sort of brain activity which builds an ability to think critically.

There are a lot of people out there who are stupid (booklearning wise) but they aren't dumb. They can solve problems, only within a different context. They find the problems and solutions in the books to be something alien to them, and that is more nurture (the environment they grow up in) than nature.

Then, admittedly, there are plenty of people who couldn't pour water out of a boot if you wrote the directions on the heel.
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Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression


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Offline Sanguine

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Re: Stupidity should be cured, says DNA discoverer
« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2019, 08:44:29 PM »
Yep. But if your parents are the sort who have high IQs, you are far more likely to grow up in an environment where learning is expected and encouraged, and daily subjected to the sort of brain activity which builds an ability to think critically.

There are a lot of people out there who are stupid (booklearning wise) but they aren't dumb. They can solve problems, only within a different context. They find the problems and solutions in the books to be something alien to them, and that is more nurture (the environment they grow up in) than nature.

Then, admittedly, there are plenty of people who couldn't pour water out of a boot if you wrote the directions on the heel.


Unfortunately, environmental enrichment, like Head Start, don't seem to have an effect on IQ.  Now, learning how to think and being experienced in problem solving and the ability to recover from failure is very important and can definitely affect how one performs in life.  And, those with higher IQs are more able to take advantage of that type of learning. 
"I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials." – George Mason, Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 1788

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Offline The Ghost

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Re: Stupidity should be cured, says DNA discoverer
« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2019, 08:46:46 PM »
If we cure stupidity who in the hell am I going to make fun of?

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Offline mystery-ak

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Re: Stupidity should be cured, says DNA discoverer
« Reply #15 on: January 14, 2019, 08:51:48 PM »
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Offline LegalAmerican

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Re: Stupidity should be cured, says DNA discoverer
« Reply #16 on: January 14, 2019, 08:56:15 PM »
I think there is more to stupidity than simple genetics. Granted, the framework must be there, the biological hardware, but so much stupidity is the result of lack of practical experience and use of the hardware. That's programmed in after the brain is formed.
So, we're back to the old question:

Nature or Nurture?


I am convinced it is mostly genetics.  Some predispositions may be modified, changed with external support of NURTURE.

Has anyone tried to "change " who they were/are at the core?  I.E.  Gay, straight.

We have trouble with simple diets. Changing our habits and what we desire.  There is a video of triplets given up for adoption. Raised by different family's.  Tested as they grew.  They still had the same personalities, and Ikes, dislikes, while separated their whole formative years.  I say, genetics, looking at my own family.   wink777

Offline The Ghost

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Re: Stupidity should be cured, says DNA discoverer
« Reply #17 on: January 14, 2019, 08:58:35 PM »
"The disdain of a small minority should never, absent legitimate grievance, take precedence over the majority."

Offline RoosGirl

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Re: Stupidity should be cured, says DNA discoverer
« Reply #18 on: January 14, 2019, 08:59:42 PM »
If we cure stupidity who in the hell am I going to make fun of?

Ugly people.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Stupidity should be cured, says DNA discoverer
« Reply #19 on: January 14, 2019, 09:01:57 PM »

Unfortunately, environmental enrichment, like Head Start, don't seem to have an effect on IQ.  Now, learning how to think and being experienced in problem solving and the ability to recover from failure is very important and can definitely affect how one performs in life.  And, those with higher IQs are more able to take advantage of that type of learning.
We had a grandchild who knew her numbers, colors, basic shapes, alphabet, etc. She was told there was no way she could know those things...After we realized she was being dumbed down, and not taught, we had her pulled out of the program. Never again. The purpose of such programs isn't to lift people up, its to keep them in their place by normalizing a herd mentality, quashing intellectual drive at an early age, and making sure they are well conditioned to do no better than their peers.
In contrast, when I went to school, excellence was lauded, the smartest kids were in the same sections of their particular grade (Junior High and beyond), and in my final High School, where courses were taught on the Keller Plan, you could move at your own pace. Not only was there no social friction against being smart, it was encouraged.

Not so any more, from pre-K onward. Smart kids are a challenge to  teachers who just want to punch the clock, and often become discipline problems out of boredom.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression


There are no "Socialists", no "Progressives", only Communists, with every negative image that totalitarianism might muster, demanding fealty and conformity to their views, with a legacy of 150,000,000 dead and counting.

Offline Sanguine

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Re: Stupidity should be cured, says DNA discoverer
« Reply #20 on: January 14, 2019, 09:07:36 PM »
We had a grandchild who knew her numbers, colors, basic shapes, alphabet, etc. She was told there was no way she could know those things...After we realized she was being dumbed down, and not taught, we had her pulled out of the program. Never again. The purpose of such programs isn't to lift people up, its to keep them in their place by normalizing a herd mentality, quashing intellectual drive at an early age, and making sure they are well conditioned to do no better than their peers.
In contrast, when I went to school, excellence was lauded, the smartest kids were in the same sections of their particular grade (Junior High and beyond), and in my final High School, where courses were taught on the Keller Plan, you could move at your own pace. Not only was there no social friction against being smart, it was encouraged.

Not so any more, from pre-K onward. Smart kids are a challenge to  teachers who just want to punch the clock, and often become discipline problems out of boredom.

...and, smart, well-informed, sensible citizens are are challenge to our government.
"I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials." – George Mason, Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 1788

“Do right and risk the consequences.”

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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Stupidity should be cured, says DNA discoverer
« Reply #21 on: January 14, 2019, 09:11:19 PM »
...and, smart, well-informed, sensible citizens are are challenge to our government.
Precisely--at least as the Government is now.
They would be a challenge if things were running within Constitutional constraints (to keep them there), but when the schools don't teach how to read and write in the cursive font used by the founders, the few who do seek out primary knowledge of those documents will be thwarted by their illiteracy from square one.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression


There are no "Socialists", no "Progressives", only Communists, with every negative image that totalitarianism might muster, demanding fealty and conformity to their views, with a legacy of 150,000,000 dead and counting.

Offline Joe Wooten

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Re: Stupidity should be cured, says DNA discoverer
« Reply #22 on: January 16, 2019, 11:22:56 AM »
There's a difference between IQ (potential ability) and stupidity (actuality).  And, there are differing average IQs between different groups of people, but of the problems that arise with that is in how you define the group, and the fact that the average IQ applies to the group but tells you nothing about the actual IQs of an individual.

There are a LOT of stupid folks with high IQ's, willfully stupid.......

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: Stupidity should be cured, says DNA discoverer
« Reply #23 on: January 16, 2019, 09:31:08 PM »
There are a LOT of stupid folks with high IQ's, willfully stupid.......
We call a alot of them Democrats.
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