Author Topic: BASEBALL 2019---LET'S DO IT!  (Read 45639 times)

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Offline EasyAce

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Re: BASEBALL 2019---LET'S DO IT!
« Reply #175 on: July 08, 2019, 08:25:11 pm »
When a backstop TOTALLY BLOCKS the plate.....   What is a baserunner supposed to do?
How about a backstop moving forward left away from the plate, which is exactly what Lucroy did just moments before Marisnick clearly left the proper baseline toward the large dirt area in front of the plate and hit Lucroy when Lucroy wasn't even close to the plate?


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Re: BASEBALL 2019---LET'S DO IT!
« Reply #176 on: July 08, 2019, 08:28:54 pm »
How about a backstop moving forward left away from the plate, which is exactly what Lucroy did just moments before Marisnick clearly left the proper baseline toward the large dirt area in front of the plate and hit Lucroy when Lucroy wasn't even close to the plate?

Bullshit.  I've watched the replay 10 times.  By the time Lucroy made that move, Marsinick had already made his move to "unobstruct the plate". Your 3 second narrative on the how the play unfolded is fallacy versus the capabilities of the human body to process information,
I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.

Offline EasyAce

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Re: BASEBALL 2019---LET'S DO IT!
« Reply #177 on: July 08, 2019, 08:33:41 pm »
Bullshit.  I've watched the replay 10 times.  By the time Lucroy made that move, Marsinick had already made his move to "unobstruct the plate". Your 3 second narrative on the how the play unfolded is fallacy versus the capabilities of the human body to process information,
I've watched several replays several times, and my conclusion stands. Marisnick moved after Lucroy moved out forward left from the plate and Marisnick was clearly out of the baseline. If an Angels runner had done the same thing regarding Astros catcher Matt Stassi and the movements went the same way, with the same result, I'd have called it the same way and hoped Stassi might escape the worst, too, however futile the hope might be. (Lucroy does indeed have a broken nose and a concussion; he's due to leave the hospital today but how long he'll be on the IL especially under the concussion protocol is anyone's guess.)


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Offline GrouchoTex

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Re: BASEBALL 2019---LET'S DO IT!
« Reply #178 on: July 08, 2019, 08:53:12 pm »
Marisnick did go inside the base line that part is true.
@GrouchoTex

I was exhausted, physically and emotionally. It was one of the wildest game I've seen in my entire year-and-a-half career of being a rabid Astros fan. :pop41: I learned a lot about strategies, etc., listening to Berkman explaining things to the kids.

The collision was upsetting in numerous ways. That it happened. That Jake has been demonized. That baseball is a tough game but the umps can woosify if they want to. Yes, I'm a newcomer, but I can't see a way to keep such collisions from happening when you have a fast-moving ball and a fast-moving runner headed for a base at any point in the game. Someone, please tell me where I'm wrong.

How did you hold up? Did you watch it all?

Oh yeah, I watched it all.
Marisnick and Lucroy  have started quite the discussion.
I'll watch it again.
Marisnick was inside the line, which he was not supposed to be, that I'll concede.  He would be out, but that is rarely called now.
It appears to me at first glance that he did so more to avoid the collusion, than to cause it.
Lucroy was going left back across the line more, towards his left looking down the third baseline from home, but didn't make it back out of the way fast enough.
That's what I recall but I'll have to look at again to be certain.

Not so sure it was intentional, Marisnick's crash or Lucroy's block, but that was the ultimate result, that the crash took place.
Had Marisnick stayed correctly on the base path, the results could have been much worse, Helmet-to-face, instead of shoulder-to-face.

Offline EasyAce

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Re: BASEBALL 2019---LET'S DO IT!
« Reply #179 on: July 08, 2019, 08:56:55 pm »
Had Marisnick stayed correctly on the base path, the results could have been much worse, Helmet-to-face, instead of shoulder-to-face.
Actually, if Marisnick stayed straight on the baseline there wouldn't have been a collision. Watch the replays very carefully. Lucroy moved forward left before Marisnick banked hard to his own left---Lucroy had to make that move anyway to take Calhoun's throw home on the short hop, but if Marisnick stayed on the straight baseline a) he had a better chance to score, with Lucroy just enough away from the plate, even if b) Lucroy concurrently still had a solid chance to tag him out.


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Offline GrouchoTex

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Re: BASEBALL 2019---LET'S DO IT!
« Reply #180 on: July 08, 2019, 09:07:59 pm »
Actually, if Marisnick stayed straight on the baseline there wouldn't have been a collision. Watch the replays very carefully. Lucroy moved forward left before Marisnick banked hard to his own left---Lucroy had to make that move anyway to take Calhoun's throw home on the short hop, but if Marisnick stayed on the straight baseline a) he had a better chance to score, with Lucroy just enough away from the plate, even if b) Lucroy concurrently still had a solid chance to tag him out.
I'll take another look.
I haven't seen it since yesterday when it happened live.
They did replay it at the time, but I had thought initially Lurcoy, while he was in front plate, spun to apply the tag, and put himself in the baseline at that point.
I'll check it again.

« Last Edit: July 08, 2019, 09:15:43 pm by GrouchoTex »

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Re: BASEBALL 2019---LET'S DO IT!
« Reply #181 on: July 08, 2019, 09:09:43 pm »
How about a backstop moving forward left away from the plate, which is exactly what Lucroy did just moments before Marisnick clearly left the proper baseline toward the large dirt area in front of the plate and hit Lucroy when Lucroy wasn't even close to the plate?

100% fiction!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Online catfish1957

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Re: BASEBALL 2019---LET'S DO IT!
« Reply #182 on: July 08, 2019, 09:19:53 pm »
100% fiction!

He wrote an article a few days ago, about going to an Angels game.  Homerism probably at its best.  I believe Jake will be suspended, but only because of the Posey rule. That's pretty black and white.  I totally stand by the fact (check the replay) that Jake did not have time to uncommit to a collision (inner baseline), by the time Lucroy made his last second move toward mid-plate.

My hopes are with Mr. Lucroy for a speedy recovery.
I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.

Online Bigun

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Re: BASEBALL 2019---LET'S DO IT!
« Reply #183 on: July 08, 2019, 09:24:23 pm »
He wrote an article a few days ago, about going to an Angels game.  Homerism probably at its best.  I believe Jake will be suspended, but only because of the Posey rule. That's pretty black and white.  I totally stand by the fact (check the replay) that Jake did not have time to uncommit to a collision (inner baseline), by the time Lucroy made his last second move toward mid-plate.

My hopes are with Mr. Lucroy for a speedy recovery.

And I join you in wishing Lucroy a speedy recovery.  If Jake gets suspended it will be a TOTAL miscarriage and will further lower my regard for the game of baseball as it is played today.  I thought that was impossible but maybe not.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Online catfish1957

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Re: BASEBALL 2019---LET'S DO IT!
« Reply #184 on: July 08, 2019, 09:29:35 pm »
And I join you in wishing Lucroy a speedy recovery.  If Jake gets suspended it will be a TOTAL miscarriage and will further lower my regard for the game of baseball as it is played today.  I thought that was impossible but maybe not.

I think the assinine MLB move that will be the straw that breaks the camel's back, is if they decide to implement the designated runner rule, to reduce the number of extra inning games. 

MLB is hellbent on ruining the game I grew up with and loved. 

I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.

Offline AllThatJazzZ

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Offline EasyAce

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Re: BASEBALL 2019---LET'S DO IT!
« Reply #186 on: July 08, 2019, 10:25:23 pm »
He wrote an article a few days ago, about going to an Angels game.  Homerism probably at its best. 
I took my son and his girlfriend, both of whom live in Norwalk, California as opposed to myself living in Las Vegas, to an Angels game as a graduation present for him. Aside from that, only someone who actually didn't read what I wrote about that night could possibly accuse me of homerism, especially since my primary focus was the home runs hit in the game by both sides (the Angels, the Athletics), in light of a) the bitching this season over the home run spike and b) the fact that the loudest cheers in the ballpark that night came for---you guessed it---the home runs, and it wasn't just Angel fans making a racket over the homers, either: there was a sizeable contingency of A's fans (yes, the A's actually have fans, believe it or not) in the park making almost as much noise for their guys' home runs as the Angels' fans did for theirs.

And if I included a photograph of myself, my son, and his lady wearing assorted Angel caps, so what? The principle of when in Rome to one side, I happen to be a collector and wearer of historic baseball hats, including the reproduction of the 1961 Angels' hat I wore in the photo: it was the hat they wore in their first season in the American League, without the halo embroidered in the top of the crown yet. (That feature arrived in 1962.)

In the context of the article's major thrust of some people never being satisfied, I also mentioned the Orioles (and there are probably no fans in baseball less satisfied these days than Oriole fans) having won back-to-back shutouts in which they scored thirteen or more runs while their fans . . . bitched about the celebratory uniforms they wore that weekend, on which their jersey sleeves, the bills of their hats, and the "Orioles" script on the jersey fronts, were occupied by images of Maryland's state flag. (It was a state holiday that weekend.) And as it happened, a day or so before I departed for California for my son's graduation festivities, there arrived in my mail this hat . . .



It's the hat the Orioles wore from 1958-1962, my personal favourite of all the hats the Orioles have worn in my lifetime. I also have this one . . .



. . . which I bought in 1998 at Camden Yards itself, when I was traveling around the country, spent a couple of days in Baltimore, and a) took a guided tour of that ballpark (for those who haven't been there, it's everything you heard it was and more), before b) watching a game in the park that night.

I also have these hats (and you may rest assured I removed the tags and stickers from mine!):



(The Tigers hat I happened to buy during the aforesaid travel around the country, when I was fortunate enough to get tickets for a game at old Tiger Stadium.)

Plus . . .


Las Vegas's AAA level minor league team, known as the 51s from the time I first came to Vegas in 2007 until last season. And . . .


An alternate hat of the team, known as the Aviators since the beginning of this season.


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Offline EasyAce

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Re: BASEBALL 2019---LET'S DO IT!
« Reply #187 on: July 09, 2019, 02:51:59 am »
. . . and, your 2019 Home Run Derby champion is . . . Pete Alonso (Mets), who faced Vladimir Guerrero, Jr. (Blue Jays) in the final round and beat him.


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Offline GrouchoTex

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Re: BASEBALL 2019---LET'S DO IT!
« Reply #188 on: July 09, 2019, 12:56:48 pm »
Actually, if Marisnick stayed straight on the baseline there wouldn't have been a collision. Watch the replays very carefully. Lucroy moved forward left before Marisnick banked hard to his own left---Lucroy had to make that move anyway to take Calhoun's throw home on the short hop, but if Marisnick stayed on the straight baseline a) he had a better chance to score, with Lucroy just enough away from the plate, even if b) Lucroy concurrently still had a solid chance to tag him out.

I watched it again last night.
When that throw came in, Lucroy had to move up and left to get it. Marisnick hadn't anticipated that and had the inside track already picked out that point.
He had figured Lucroy would stay where he was, or even move more "south".
It didn't work that way obviously.
That, according to Gerrit Cole, (not just me), was the ironic part.
Where Lucroy started,and where Lucroy wound up, are 2 different spots.
If Lucroy doesn't move up and left, the collusion doesn't take place.
The ironic part being that Marisinick move north to avoid it, but so did Lucroy.
Just a sad chain of events, but I do believe Marisnick was moving inside the line to avoid it, but  Lucroy also moved that same direction to catch the one-hop, off-line throw.

Yes, at the end of the day, if Marisnick takes the outside track, it doesn't happen, but that's hindsight now, after Lucroy moved to get the throw.
How could he know that the throw would be off line at that instant that it happened?
It was awfully quick.
Marisnick, under the rules, is out for leaving the base path, but we've all seen people sliding in "front" of home plate and reaching a hand out to tag the plate, and it is rarely called that the runner had left the base path.
Looking at it all over again, I do not believe it was malicious, but I do believe Marisnick still may get an suspension out of it.

Let's hope for a speedy and 100% recovery for Lucroy.



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Re: BASEBALL 2019---LET'S DO IT!
« Reply #189 on: July 09, 2019, 01:06:22 pm »
I watched it again last night.
When that throw came in, Lucroy had to move up and left to get it. Marisnick hadn't anticipated that and had the inside track already picked out that point.
He had figured Lucroy would stay where he was, or even move more "south".
It didn't work that way obviously.
That, according to Gerrit Cole, (not just me), was the ironic part.
Where Lucroy started,and where Lucroy wound up, are 2 different spots.
If Lucroy doesn't move up and left, the collusion doesn't take place.
The ironic part being that Marisinick move north to avoid it, but so did Lucroy.
Just a sad chain of events, but I do believe Marisnick was moving inside the line to avoid it, but  Lucroy also moved that same direction to catch the one-hop, off-line throw.

Yes, at the end of the day, if Marisnick takes the outside track, it doesn't happen, but that's hindsight now, after Lucroy moved to get the throw.
How could he know that the throw would be off line at that instant that it happened?
It was awfully quick.
Marisnick, under the rules, is out for leaving the base path, but we've all seen people sliding in "front" of home plate and reaching a hand out to tag the plate, and it is rarely called that the runner had left the base path.
Looking at it all over again, I do not believe it was malicious, but I do believe Marisnick still may get an suspension out of it.

Let's hope for a speedy and 100% recovery for Lucroy.

I saw it happen and watched replays till my eyes hurt. STILL cannot fathom where anyone gets the idea that Marisnick ever left the basepath!  He did not!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Online Polly Ticks

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Re: BASEBALL 2019---LET'S DO IT!
« Reply #190 on: July 09, 2019, 01:18:36 pm »
. . . and, your 2019 Home Run Derby champion is . . . Pete Alonso (Mets), who faced Vladimir Guerrero, Jr. (Blue Jays) in the final round and beat him.

That 2nd round between Pederson and Guerrero was epic.

Having said that, what do you think of the current format for the Home Run Derby?  I think on the whole it's pretty entertaining, but there's a definite advantage to whoever goes second.  I liked the previous "10 misses and you're out" format for a more even playing field.
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Re: BASEBALL 2019---LET'S DO IT!
« Reply #191 on: July 09, 2019, 02:39:52 pm »
I saw it happen and watched replays till my eyes hurt. STILL cannot fathom where anyone gets the idea that Marisnick ever left the basepath!  He did not!

Detractors do not realize that on a north south path to the plate, a juke move by the back stop is hard to discern, especially when your eyes are peeled on the catcher rather than the basepath.  Easy Ace blew this one.
I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.

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Re: BASEBALL 2019---LET'S DO IT!
« Reply #192 on: July 09, 2019, 03:08:58 pm »
Detractors do not realize that on a north south path to the plate, a juke move by the back stop is hard to discern, especially when your eyes are peeled on the catcher rather than the basepath.  Easy Ace blew this one.

 :yowsa:
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline EasyAce

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Re: BASEBALL 2019---LET'S DO IT!
« Reply #193 on: July 09, 2019, 03:41:02 pm »
That 2nd round between Pederson and Guerrero was epic.

Having said that, what do you think of the current format for the Home Run Derby?  I think on the whole it's pretty entertaining, but there's a definite advantage to whoever goes second.  I liked the previous "10 misses and you're out" format for a more even playing field.
@Polly Ticks
If we must have the Home Run Derby, I agree with you about the former ten-out format.

Otherwise, I'm even more in favour of doing away with the Home Run Derby entirely. Oh, sure, it's great fun. But it's also a) little more than hyped and glorified batting practise; and, b) bearing at least a 50-50 chance that those who win will have lesser second halves of seasons than they did first. I did an analysis of it in March and discovered that, among 34 Home Run Derby champions including six Hall of Famers (in order of wins: Andre Dawson, Ryne Sandberg, Cal Ripken, Frank Thomas, Ken Griffey Jr. twice, and Vladimir Guerrero Sr.), exactly one shy of half of them had lesser second halves of seasons than first. (Anomaly: Eric Davis, in the season he won the Derby, had exactly the same OPS before the All-Star break as he did after it.)

Aaron Judge declined to participate in this year's Derby because he feared either being injured while participating or incurring an injury after it. It's not an illegitimate fear, but I couldn't find anything to make an overwhelming case for that happening to Derby winners. But when he said concurrently that the Derby impacts a player's second half, I saw a stronger case for that even if it's only been 50-50 so far. Judge himself is evidence for that: he won the 2017 Derby (and put one helluva show on while he was at it), but his regular season second half was pronouncedly less than his first half was. His first half: 1.139 OPS; 208 total bases; his second half: .939 OPS; 132 total bases. And his second half was still a second half a lot of players would kill to deliver.

Sure, Vladimir Guerrero, Jr. put one helluva show on Monday night, whether he competed against Joc Pederson or Pete Alonso. (The best line about the Derby anywhere turned up on Twitter: "Joc Pederson's going after that $1 million like he's behind in his rent.") But two things to remember:

* He actually isn't an All-Star; talented as he is, his rookie season is one of making more adjustments to major league competition than was thought he'd need after he overwhelmed in the minors.

* The Home Run Derby may be great entertainment, but it isn't baseball. Say what you will about how the All-Star teams are composed and arranged, but at least the All-Star Game is baseball.

Pete Alonso, who did win the Derby, came into the All-Star break with a fat case as the National League's Rookie of the Year in the making: he's broken his team's record for homers in a season by a rookie (his 30 eclipsed Darryl Strawberry's 26 in 1983) and tied his team's record for most bombs before the All-Star break (his 30 equal Dave Kingman's 30 in 1976); and, he has a) a 1.006 OPS and a 166 OPS+ (he's sixth in the Show in the former and fourth in the latter) and b) tied with Cody Bellinger for second in the Show with his 30 bombs. It's not that his Mets are necessarily going anywhere this year (that team is riddled with issues not even a sliver of his making), but it's to see whether Alonso will have a second half equal to his first or close enough to it.

By contrast, it should be interesting to see the second half of the Astros' Alex Bregman. He was eliminated in the Derby's first round. when Joc Pederson out-homered him 21-16. But Bregman had the second-best line of the night when he was asked about the semi-final showdown between Pederson and Guerrero that went to a pair of swing-offs before Guerrero took it to set up his showdown with Alonso: I couldn't imagine three rounds of that. I was gassed after two minutes of it.

Not to mention the second halves of the others who were eliminated: Ronald Acuna Jr., Josh Bell, Matt Chapman, Carlos Santana.

On the other hand, Guerrero Jr. swung his way into a record book: he's part of the first father-and-son tandem to win Home Run Derbies. Whether he eventually becomes half of the first father-and-son tandem of players to become Hall of Famers is, of course, a wide open question the answer to which won't be known for a long enough time.


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Offline GrouchoTex

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Re: BASEBALL 2019---LET'S DO IT!
« Reply #194 on: July 11, 2019, 06:18:52 pm »
Marisnick just received a 2 game suspension and a fine of an undisclosed amount.

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Re: BASEBALL 2019---LET'S DO IT!
« Reply #195 on: July 11, 2019, 06:42:01 pm »
Marisnick just received a 2 game suspension and a fine of an undisclosed amount.

  **nononono* 
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline AllThatJazzZ

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Re: BASEBALL 2019---LET'S DO IT!
« Reply #196 on: July 11, 2019, 07:41:59 pm »
  **nononono*

@GrouchoTex
@Bigun

 :#@$%:

Y'all are taking this better than I am. I shall have to part company with those who pushed for this in an attempt to keep my blood pressure down.

 :soangry: *mad* :chairbang:


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Re: BASEBALL 2019---LET'S DO IT!
« Reply #197 on: July 11, 2019, 07:45:22 pm »
@GrouchoTex
@Bigun

 :#@$%:

Y'all are taking this better than I am. I shall have to part company with those who pushed for this in an attempt to keep my blood pressure down.

 :soangry: *mad* :chairbang:

Don't check social media around this issue.  Opposing fans have been absolutely disgusting in their comments about Jake.
I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.

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Re: BASEBALL 2019---LET'S DO IT!
« Reply #198 on: July 11, 2019, 07:46:23 pm »
Marisnick just received a 2 game suspension and a fine of an undisclosed amount.

Wonder how much he would have gotten if he was a Red Sox or Yankees player.   :pondering:
I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.

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Re: BASEBALL 2019---LET'S DO IT!
« Reply #199 on: July 11, 2019, 07:47:25 pm »
@GrouchoTex
@Bigun

 :#@$%:

Y'all are taking this better than I am. I shall have to part company with those who pushed for this in an attempt to keep my blood pressure down.

 :soangry: *mad* :chairbang:

UH! No!  Not so at all!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien