Poll

Yes or no; opposing a border wall makes you an enemy of the American people

YES
22 (62.9%)
NO
13 (37.1%)

Total Members Voted: 34

Voting closed: January 24, 2019, 08:51:04 am

Author Topic: Yes or no; opposing a border wall makes you an enemy of the American people  (Read 15404 times)

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Offline jpsb

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Re: Yes or no; opposing a border wall makes you an enemy of the American people
« Reply #50 on: December 26, 2018, 04:03:49 pm »
@Oceander

Simple solution to that problem is tougher standards to get a visitor visa,and having anyone who applies for one be required to post a bond to be forfeited if they disappear.

If you over stay your visa we know who you are. That is much better then someone we don't know about
entering illegally.

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Yes or no; opposing a border wall makes you an enemy of the American people
« Reply #51 on: December 26, 2018, 04:14:09 pm »
If you over stay your visa we know who you are. That is much better then someone we don't know about
entering illegally.

@jpsb

Not only that,but your bond money helps pay for tracking you down.
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Oceander

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Re: Yes or no; opposing a border wall makes you an enemy of the American people
« Reply #52 on: December 26, 2018, 04:22:19 pm »
@Oceander

Simple solution to that problem is tougher standards to get a visitor visa,and having anyone who applies for one be required to post a bond to be forfeited if they disappear.

Sure.  Good luck getting that one enacted. You really want to destroy the economy by taking away all the income tourists spend here?  Apparently, MAGA means turning the US into another hermit kingdom. 

Oceander

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Re: Yes or no; opposing a border wall makes you an enemy of the American people
« Reply #53 on: December 26, 2018, 04:23:11 pm »
If you over stay your visa we know who you are. That is much better then someone we don't know about
entering illegally.

Then why are most illegal aliens people who overstayed their visas?  Clearly, it’s not such a simple problem. 

Online Hoodat

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Re: Yes or no; opposing a border wall makes you an enemy of the American people
« Reply #54 on: December 26, 2018, 04:30:33 pm »
'Opposing a border wall solely because your political opponent supports it' is what makes you an enemy of the American people.  Because in doing so, you place politics ahead of the welfare of the nation.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

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Offline jpsb

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Re: Yes or no; opposing a border wall makes you an enemy of the American people
« Reply #55 on: December 26, 2018, 04:32:51 pm »
Then why are most illegal aliens people who overstayed their visas?  Clearly, it’s not such a simple problem.

Yeah, you've made that claim several times but I have not seen any credible documentation to back it up.
Millions enter illegally every year, just how many millions we do not know since we do not know who is
entering illegally. So I don't know how you can say visa overstays are more then X (illegal border crossers).
When you don't know the value of X.

Online Cyber Liberty

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Re: Yes or no; opposing a border wall makes you an enemy of the American people
« Reply #56 on: December 26, 2018, 05:31:02 pm »
Yeah, you've made that claim several times but I have not seen any credible documentation to back it up.
Millions enter illegally every year, just how many millions we do not know since we do not know who is
entering illegally. So I don't know how you can say visa overstays are more then X (illegal border crossers).
When you don't know the value of X.

His only frame of reference may be where he lives.  Where I live, it's border jumpers aplenty and I'd like to see a wall.  And, no, if we build a wall there won't be more visitor Visas.  That would require orderly entrance.
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Offline Sanguine

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Re: Yes or no; opposing a border wall makes you an enemy of the American people
« Reply #57 on: December 26, 2018, 05:48:59 pm »
His only frame of reference may be where he lives.  Where I live, it's border jumpers aplenty and I'd like to see a wall.  And, no, if we build a wall there won't be more visitor Visas.  That would require orderly entrance.

And, that's why we have to rely on actual information instead of opinion and wishful thinking.  There has been lots of actual information posted here on this topic and almost none of it supports the "no-wall/open-borders" POV.

Oceander

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Re: Yes or no; opposing a border wall makes you an enemy of the American people
« Reply #58 on: December 26, 2018, 06:14:39 pm »
His only frame of reference may be where he lives.  Where I live, it's border jumpers aplenty and I'd like to see a wall.  And, no, if we build a wall there won't be more visitor Visas.  That would require orderly entrance.

Nope.  My frame of reference is the data. 

If you want to waste money on a wall, spend your own damned money on it.  Leave me and my pocketbook out of it. 

No federal tax dollars for a boondoggle wall that won’t do anything material - except provide payola to Union-dominated construction firms. 

Oceander

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Re: Yes or no; opposing a border wall makes you an enemy of the American people
« Reply #59 on: December 26, 2018, 06:15:22 pm »
Yeah, you've made that claim several times but I have not seen any credible documentation to back it up.
Millions enter illegally every year, just how many millions we do not know since we do not know who is
entering illegally. So I don't know how you can say visa overstays are more then X (illegal border crossers).
When you don't know the value of X.
Google it <NOPE>
« Last Edit: December 26, 2018, 06:17:54 pm by Mod2 »

Offline RoosGirl

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Re: Yes or no; opposing a border wall makes you an enemy of the American people
« Reply #60 on: December 26, 2018, 06:29:01 pm »
Then why are most illegal aliens people who overstayed their visas?  Clearly, it’s not such a simple problem.

Not most.  Supposedly 42%, based on estimates from a pro-migrant Center for Migration.  Turns out DHS *cannot* and *does not* track visa overstays because they "lack the infrastructure" to collect it.

http://checkyourfact.com/2018/01/26/fact-check-did-40-percent-of-all-illegal-immigrants-overstay-legal-visas/

Oceander

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Re: Yes or no; opposing a border wall makes you an enemy of the American people
« Reply #61 on: December 26, 2018, 06:35:54 pm »
Not most.  Supposedly 42%, based on estimates from a pro-migrant Center for Migration.  Turns out DHS *cannot* and *does not* track visa overstays because they "lack the infrastructure" to collect it.

http://checkyourfact.com/2018/01/26/fact-check-did-40-percent-of-all-illegal-immigrants-overstay-legal-visas/

But y’all know to a penny that illegal aliens cost more than they contribute.

Pfft.  Liberals have their global warming cult; conservatives apparently have an anti-immigrant cult. 

And 42% is nothing to sneeze at.  It means, for one thing, that overstaying a visa is relatively easy, which means in turn that to the extent the Holy Border Wall has an effect, it will principally show up as more visa overstays.

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Yes or no; opposing a border wall makes you an enemy of the American people
« Reply #62 on: December 26, 2018, 06:36:38 pm »
Quote
Sure.  Good luck getting that one enacted. You really want to destroy the economy by taking away all the income tourists spend here?

@Oceander

Nope,just require a bond from those visiting from 3rd world countries. Call it "reverse travel insurance". If the visitors can't afford to post the bond,they can't afford to come here as tourists and spend money and still afford to go back  home.


 
Quote
Apparently, MAGA means turning the US into another hermit kingdom.

Only in your fevered imagination. It actually means "Make America look and sound like a 1st World Nation Again".
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Online roamer_1

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Re: Yes or no; opposing a border wall makes you an enemy of the American people
« Reply #63 on: December 26, 2018, 06:39:58 pm »
conservatives apparently have an anti-immigrant cult. 


No, Conservatives are anti-illegal alien... And generally pro-immigration. 

Online bigheadfred

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Re: Yes or no; opposing a border wall makes you an enemy of the American people
« Reply #64 on: December 26, 2018, 06:41:18 pm »
Why would anyone need to Google <NOPE> @Mod2 ?

I thought everyone knows a <NOPE> is an effing enormous, effing hairy, effing octalegged creature from the depths of effing HELL that only a DEW can stop?????
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Offline RoosGirl

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Re: Yes or no; opposing a border wall makes you an enemy of the American people
« Reply #65 on: December 26, 2018, 06:42:06 pm »
But y’all know to a penny that illegal aliens cost more than they contribute.

Pfft.  Liberals have their global warming cult; conservatives apparently have an anti-immigrant cult. 

And 42% is nothing to sneeze at.  It means, for one thing, that overstaying a visa is relatively easy, which means in turn that to the extent the Holy Border Wall has an effect, it will principally show up as more visa overstays.

1.  42%, if you believe Dick Durbin. 

2.  I've seen no proof that law-breakers make meaningful contributions to society.

Oceander

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Re: Yes or no; opposing a border wall makes you an enemy of the American people
« Reply #66 on: December 26, 2018, 06:45:13 pm »
No, Conservatives are anti-illegal alien... And generally pro-immigration. 

No, actually, they’re not. They’re anti-immigrant.  Along with the whinging about illegal aliens, there is tons of whinging about the visa program, and constant demands to cut down legal immigration as well because they’re stealing jobs from “Real Murcans”.

If they were pro-immigrant, they’d be in favor of liberalizing immigration, not closing the doors completely.

Online bigheadfred

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Re: Yes or no; opposing a border wall makes you an enemy of the American people
« Reply #67 on: December 26, 2018, 06:58:29 pm »
1.  42%, if you believe Dick Durbin. 

2.  I've seen no proof that law-breakers make meaningful contributions to society.

Damn, I am slooow today. My eye is bothering me. Too snow brite outside to go outside.

I read it as: 2.  I've seen no proof that law-makers make meaningful contributions to society.
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Online roamer_1

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Re: Yes or no; opposing a border wall makes you an enemy of the American people
« Reply #68 on: December 26, 2018, 07:01:12 pm »
No, actually, they’re not. They’re anti-immigrant.  Along with the whinging about illegal aliens, there is tons of whinging about the visa program, and constant demands to cut down legal immigration as well because they’re stealing jobs from “Real Murcans”.

If they were pro-immigrant, they’d be in favor of liberalizing immigration, not closing the doors completely.

That is a rather broad brush...

I have heard Conservatives say they want a moratorium on any new immigration for a decade or so, to better handle what we've already got, and to allow time to develop a more reasonable and enforceable  process... A position I can agree with. The system has to be enforceable.

And I have heard many decry H1B visas because They allow foreign workers to take native jobs for pennies on the dollar - The Conservative solution being to allow H1B visas, but at something akin to current market value of the job.

Both of those positions are about fair play and the rule of law. And neither of them are against immigration.

Oceander

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Re: Yes or no; opposing a border wall makes you an enemy of the American people
« Reply #69 on: December 26, 2018, 07:01:15 pm »
1.  42%, if you believe Dick Durbin. 

2.  I've seen no proof that law-breakers make meaningful contributions to society.

Right. 

Wrong on both counts.  Even the anti-immigrant “studies” have been forced to conclude that illegals do, in fact, end up paying taxes.  That’s a contribution, right there.  So is the fact that they typically do jobs that most “Real Murcans” wouldn’t do for twice the wage.  That’s another contribution. 

Online roamer_1

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Re: Yes or no; opposing a border wall makes you an enemy of the American people
« Reply #70 on: December 26, 2018, 07:04:17 pm »
Damn, I am slooow today. My eye is bothering me. Too snow brite outside to go outside.


Online bigheadfred

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She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Online roamer_1

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Re: Yes or no; opposing a border wall makes you an enemy of the American people
« Reply #72 on: December 26, 2018, 07:13:25 pm »
Intuit if I were Inuit.

Too bad... Haida helped Yupik em out...  :beer:

Online bigheadfred

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Re: Yes or no; opposing a border wall makes you an enemy of the American people
« Reply #73 on: December 26, 2018, 07:14:55 pm »
Right. 

Wrong on both counts.  Even the anti-immigrant “studies” have been forced to conclude that illegals do, in fact, end up paying taxes.  That’s a contribution, right there.  So is the fact that they typically do jobs that most “Real Murcans” wouldn’t do for twice the wage. That’s another contribution.

Tis such a bane that many complain, and in deed disdain that their Romaine does contain---a blemish.
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Offline EdJames

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Re: Yes or no; opposing a border wall makes you an enemy of the American people
« Reply #74 on: December 26, 2018, 07:29:36 pm »
Tis such a bane that many complain, and in deed disdain that their Romaine does contain---a blemish.

Now they've gone and blemished them so much with bacteria that no one can eat a damn salad anymore!  How does that factor into the Equation??