Author Topic: What we should require of the dependent homeless  (Read 2278 times)

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Offline Axeslinger

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Re: What we should require of the dependent homeless
« Reply #25 on: December 12, 2018, 08:46:50 PM »
I don't know the whole answer @Axeslinger ... but I do know this: It has to be harder on the bottom than one rung up, and there has to be a way to climb out... both of which are not true right now.

@roamer_1

Again, friend:  I agree with you.  I am all for helping those who are willing to put in the work to help themselves and absolutely agree with getting the government out of everyone’s way.  But there are also those who choose to not have the desire...and I don’t partiularly care what happens to them.   My father used to say:   “You have a right not to work, but you also have the right to starve...your call.”
"The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first." - Thomas Jefferson

Offline roamer_1

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Re: What we should require of the dependent homeless
« Reply #26 on: December 12, 2018, 08:47:14 PM »
You think it glows in the dark?

Well, the ice is made with Philly water...  :shrug:

Offline bigheadfred

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Re: What we should require of the dependent homeless
« Reply #27 on: December 12, 2018, 08:47:16 PM »
You think it glows in the dark?

I don't think finding out is worth the risk.

Offline libertybele

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Re: What we should require of the dependent homeless
« Reply #28 on: December 12, 2018, 08:47:28 PM »
One other factor, many, many of these people are receiving SSDI to support their addictions.

?? How do they qualify for SSDI if they've not worked?
"I believe in the United States of America as a Government of the people, by the people, for the people; whose just powers are derived from the consent of the governed; a democracy in a republic; a sovereign nation of many sovereign states; a perfect union one and inseparable; established upon those principles of freedom, equality, justice and humanity for which American patriots sacrificed their lives and fortunes. I therefore believe it is my duty to my country to love it; to support its Constitution; to obey it laws; to respect its flag; and to defend it against all enemies." -William Page

Offline bigheadfred

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Re: What we should require of the dependent homeless
« Reply #29 on: December 12, 2018, 08:51:29 PM »
Well, the ice is made with Philly water...  :shrug:

Speaking of water, the water cooler at work is stocked with Hagerman Springs Water. Which means it has been filtered through the plutonium waste at the DOE site just to my west--the Snake River Aquifer. It has an aura about it.

Offline Sanguine

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Re: What we should require of the dependent homeless
« Reply #30 on: December 12, 2018, 08:52:35 PM »
?? How do they qualify for SSDI if they've not worked?

SSDI is a give-away program.  And, many of them would have had some work history.
Cui bono?

Walk in Wisdom
See then that you walk circumspectly, not as fools but as wise, redeeming the time, because the days are evil.

But the noble make noble plans, and by noble deeds they stand.

Offline bigheadfred

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Re: What we should require of the dependent homeless
« Reply #31 on: December 12, 2018, 08:54:11 PM »
?? How do they qualify for SSDI if they've not worked?

I think it takes about six months of "counseling" and maybe a "suicide" attempt thrown in, not to mention a voice or two in the head.

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: What we should require of the dependent homeless
« Reply #32 on: December 12, 2018, 09:04:11 PM »
You think it glows in the dark?

Black Light.  4 foot tube.
I will NOT comply.
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Offline truth_seeker

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Re: What we should require of the dependent homeless
« Reply #33 on: December 12, 2018, 09:05:37 PM »
About 2/3 of "homeless" are alcoholics/addicts and/or mentally ill.

I have seen many that drugged/drank themselves into mental illness.

And they adapt as they get worse.

 They also lie, cheat and steal.

Generally they won't attend AA and NA meetings, since they are "not that bad."

Salvation Army and other programs are available. SA however requires a few days without a drink.

"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline bigheadfred

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Re: What we should require of the dependent homeless
« Reply #34 on: December 12, 2018, 09:08:35 PM »
Black Light.  4 foot tube.

Two separate items. How many liters does the tube hold???

Offline libertybele

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Re: What we should require of the dependent homeless
« Reply #35 on: December 12, 2018, 09:21:40 PM »
About 2/3 of "homeless" are alcoholics/addicts and/or mentally ill.

I have seen many that drugged/drank themselves into mental illness.

And they adapt as they get worse.

 They also lie, cheat and steal.

Generally they won't attend AA and NA meetings, since they are "not that bad."

Salvation Army and other programs are available. SA however requires a few days without a drink.

It really is very sad.  I used to volunteer at a food pantry and people would sometimes come in seeking shelter as well.  More often than not the Salvation Army was full.  How does one get to an AA or NA meeting without transportation?  There are more people in need than there are programs.

We've also reached an opioid epidemic in this country to the extent that life expectancy is on the decline.  These addicts and alcoholics are usually someone's mother, father, sister, brother, daughter or son.  **nononono*
"I believe in the United States of America as a Government of the people, by the people, for the people; whose just powers are derived from the consent of the governed; a democracy in a republic; a sovereign nation of many sovereign states; a perfect union one and inseparable; established upon those principles of freedom, equality, justice and humanity for which American patriots sacrificed their lives and fortunes. I therefore believe it is my duty to my country to love it; to support its Constitution; to obey it laws; to respect its flag; and to defend it against all enemies." -William Page

Offline goodwithagun

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Re: What we should require of the dependent homeless
« Reply #36 on: December 12, 2018, 09:45:02 PM »
You think it glows in the dark?

Only when it exits the body.
I stand with Roosgirl.

Offline goodwithagun

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Re: What we should require of the dependent homeless
« Reply #37 on: December 12, 2018, 09:48:35 PM »
It really is very sad.  I used to volunteer at a food pantry and people would sometimes come in seeking shelter as well.  More often than not the Salvation Army was full.  How does one get to an AA or NA meeting without transportation?  There are more people in need than there are programs.

We've also reached an opioid epidemic in this country to the extent that life expectancy is on the decline.  These addicts and alcoholics are usually someone's mother, father, sister, brother, daughter or son.  **nononono*

Many of them are also veterans.

That and our extremely bad human trafficking problem where I live prevents me from judging them too harshly. I can’t condemn a vet with untreated ptsd, or a woman who was repeatedly raped as a child to be groomed as a prostitute.

I can say that private charities are the answer, not more Big Gov.
I stand with Roosgirl.

Offline Sanguine

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Re: What we should require of the dependent homeless
« Reply #38 on: December 12, 2018, 09:49:07 PM »
Cui bono?

Walk in Wisdom
See then that you walk circumspectly, not as fools but as wise, redeeming the time, because the days are evil.

But the noble make noble plans, and by noble deeds they stand.

Offline truth_seeker

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Re: What we should require of the dependent homeless
« Reply #39 on: December 12, 2018, 10:28:56 PM »
It really is very sad.  I used to volunteer at a food pantry and people would sometimes come in seeking shelter as well.  More often than not the Salvation Army was full.  How does one get to an AA or NA meeting without transportation?  There are more people in need than there are programs.

We've also reached an opioid epidemic in this country to the extent that life expectancy is on the decline.  These addicts and alcoholics are usually someone's mother, father, sister, brother, daughter or son.  **nononono*

There are more than enough recovery resources. Obamacare made it a very profitable business opportunity.


There is a shortage of people, desperate enough to work the programs.

I favorlonger sentences to hard labor and bread and water.

"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline libertybele

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Re: What we should require of the dependent homeless
« Reply #40 on: December 13, 2018, 12:05:56 AM »
Many of them are also veterans.

That and our extremely bad human trafficking problem where I live prevents me from judging them too harshly. I can’t condemn a vet with untreated ptsd, or a woman who was repeatedly raped as a child to be groomed as a prostitute.

I can say that private charities are the answer, not more Big Gov.

Thanks for pointing out these individuals ... too often we always assume drugs and alcohol.  People do fall on hard times in different ways for a multitude of reasons.

You are right, we shouldn't judge people when we don't know their story or haven't walked in their shoes.
"I believe in the United States of America as a Government of the people, by the people, for the people; whose just powers are derived from the consent of the governed; a democracy in a republic; a sovereign nation of many sovereign states; a perfect union one and inseparable; established upon those principles of freedom, equality, justice and humanity for which American patriots sacrificed their lives and fortunes. I therefore believe it is my duty to my country to love it; to support its Constitution; to obey it laws; to respect its flag; and to defend it against all enemies." -William Page

Offline Frank Cannon

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Re: What we should require of the dependent homeless
« Reply #41 on: December 13, 2018, 12:08:50 AM »
You are right, we shouldn't judge people when we don't know their story or haven't walked in their shoes.

Sure. Why don't you show me the errors in my ways for being judgemental by inviting some of these folks over for Christmas dinner. Let me know how it goes and what time the police leave.

Offline Sanguine

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Re: What we should require of the dependent homeless
« Reply #42 on: December 13, 2018, 12:15:19 AM »
Sure. Why don't you show me the errors in my ways for being judgemental by inviting some of these folks over for Christmas dinner. Let me know how it goes and what time the police leave.

How did you leap from "not judging" to inviting them over for Christmas dinner?
Cui bono?

Walk in Wisdom
See then that you walk circumspectly, not as fools but as wise, redeeming the time, because the days are evil.

But the noble make noble plans, and by noble deeds they stand.

Offline Frank Cannon

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Re: What we should require of the dependent homeless
« Reply #43 on: December 13, 2018, 12:21:26 AM »
How did you leap from "not judging" to inviting them over for Christmas dinner?

Easily. If you do not judge others then all people are equal to you. That means it isn't any bother to have some of these folks over for a turkey leg and egg nog since the only difference between them is you is that they are short on food and shelter. They are the same as you in every measure because you've made no discernment.

Offline Skeptic

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Re: What we should require of the dependent homeless
« Reply #44 on: December 13, 2018, 04:06:09 AM »
No response on this thread then all the sudden 40 replies. I will sift through the conversation.

Wow.   I can't believe what I'm reading. If you're homeless, get a bank account?  It takes money to open a bank account and for many accounts if you don't maintain a particular balance you are charged.  Most homeless people don't have the money to open account nor maintain a balance -- they use the money to eat and survive!

Get a state ID, birth certificate, etc.  -- again that all takes $$ --- money that is spent on survival on the streets.

Homeless people don't normally have access to desirable interview clothing, a shower and transportation.

The one that surprised me the most is your advice to LIE!!  Seriously??

The statistics are alarming:

Nearly 80% of workers are living paycheck to paycheck.

39.7 Million people live in poverty.

6 in 10 Americans don't have $500 saved.

Order of importance if you read what I wrote carefully. In most large U.S. cities there's resources for the homeless to get an ID card and proper certification to prove citizenship. You can't find work without identification and proof of citizenship, hence my recommendation to start there. Theres resources for interview clothing too, if not I recommend you ask a church for help. Churches like good people and will help them if they are willing to make their own part happen.

About the bank account. Some people have bank accounts when they become homeless and some of them keep them through their misfortune and right back into being in a home again. Once again, order of importance. If you are homeless and get a job you are wise to not carry your savings with you in case something bad happens. It takes a couple or few thousand dollars to get yourself upright, best to put that money in a bank account just to be safe.

If you are homeless and desperate for work and if telling a potential employer your living situation reduces your chance of getting hired 90%, then go ahead, lie! You are an American citizen, you want to work, you'll pay your taxes and this job is the only thing between you and living indoors, lie! Who wouldn't?

:amen:

Work programs need to be brought back giving folks a chance to make a living and get some training.

Back in the '80's I had a friend who went through a nasty divorce; deadbeat husband deadbbeat dad.  She wound up finding a job through a work program.  The company she worked for rec'd incentives for hiring and training.  She was able to secure subsidized housing and food and eventually was able to support herself and her daughter.  It was heart breaking at times to see her struggle; they many times would have a can of soup and a piece of bread between the two of them for dinner and I remember her taking a piece of her old jeans in order to make her daughter's jeans longer so she could wear them so the kids wouldn't make fun of her for them being too short. I babysat for her while she worked at night (shift premium) and sometimes she would just breakdown in tears.  She had a sister and no other family. No friends.

Her biggest stumbling block to her getting back on her feet, was the embarrassment that surrounded her having to seek help and get the subsidies.

I now wonder what she would have done if that program wasn't in place?

Day labor was a reliable source of work to get started if you were searching for work. When I was 20 and doing a work search I would put myself on a list for a day labor company and they would call me for work 75% of the time. Day labor isn't reliable like it was years ago. I like your idea of work programs for responsible adults willing to put the effort in to get their lives together once again.

Interesting conversation.  BKMK

What is BKMK?

"We" shouldn't require shit.  They need to find these things out on their own, because you can't "make" anybody accept any of this.

I wasn't suggesting that we "make" anyone do anything. This observance of the hardship of homelessness and what they deal with led me to make this list. Some people look on them and demand more than they can do. Here's what is realistic.

You say we shouldn't require shit but we already do. Just like we require welfare recipients to do things a certain way and qualify for benefits.

Couldn’t agree more @roamer_1

The number one thing that the homeless and economically disadvantaged need is this:  a job...any job.
The number two thing they need?   Another job.   And another one after that.  You can sleep when you’re dead.  BUT the one thing the VAST majority of them do not have?  The DESIRE to put in the real, hard, shoveling shit, eating crap sandwich WORK that it takes to alter their equation.

Now some will probably think I sound like a cold heartless sonofabitch...and maybe I am...but I am because I speak from experience.  Have I been homeless?  No.  Have I been within days or hell, even hours of being homeless?   You’re damn right I have.  But I have worked two jobs through most of my life and long periods of having three at once.  I once worked 9 months without one single day off, not a weekend, not a holiday...not a single day.


The most important factor to fix the problem?  The WANT TO.  And you can’t give that to someone else.

Sorry, rant off.

I agree with you but you must accept that not all of them are worthless wankers, some of them would gladly work if given the chance. Those are the ones I was referring to. Those were the people I was getting on about.

One other factor, many, many of these people are receiving SSDI to support their addictions.

Yes, thats a really big issue. Also, some people who did work hard their whole lives lose out because cost of living increases washed out their financial bite.

About 2/3 of "homeless" are alcoholics/addicts and/or mentally ill.

I have seen many that drugged/drank themselves into mental illness.

And they adapt as they get worse.

 They also lie, cheat and steal.

Generally they won't attend AA and NA meetings, since they are "not that bad."

Salvation Army and other programs are available. SA however requires a few days without a drink.

I would definitely not suggest staying at a Salvation Army shelter for the same reason you listed. All manner of horrible things happen in shelters. You're safer on the street than trusting public shelters. Might as well live in a commune in Crimea.

"bookmark"

Members do that so it's easier to spot participated threads or those of interest.

Okay, thanks.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2018, 05:09:43 AM by Skeptic »
I won't accept.

Online DCPatriot

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Re: What we should require of the dependent homeless
« Reply #45 on: December 13, 2018, 04:50:00 AM »


What is BKMK?



"bookmark"

Members do that so it's easier to spot participated threads or those of interest.

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Offline Sanguine

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Re: What we should require of the dependent homeless
« Reply #46 on: December 13, 2018, 09:41:26 AM »
Easily. If you do not judge others then all people are equal to you. That means it isn't any bother to have some of these folks over for a turkey leg and egg nog since the only difference between them is you is that they are short on food and shelter. They are the same as you in every measure because you've made no discernment.

But, even if they are equal, I don't like all of them.  And, people I don't like I don't invite.
Cui bono?

Walk in Wisdom
See then that you walk circumspectly, not as fools but as wise, redeeming the time, because the days are evil.

But the noble make noble plans, and by noble deeds they stand.

Offline Sanguine

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Re: What we should require of the dependent homeless
« Reply #47 on: December 13, 2018, 09:45:14 AM »
@Skeptic, re:

Quote
Quote
Quote from: Sanguine on December 12, 2018, 08:28:08 PM

    One other factor, many, many of these people are receiving SSDI to support their addictions.

Yes, thats a really big issue. Also, some people who did work hard their whole lives lose out because cost of living increases washed out their financial bite.

It IS a big issue and it doesn't affect only those taking SSDI, but everyone who has saved up for retirement. 
Cui bono?

Walk in Wisdom
See then that you walk circumspectly, not as fools but as wise, redeeming the time, because the days are evil.

But the noble make noble plans, and by noble deeds they stand.

Offline Frank Cannon

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Re: What we should require of the dependent homeless
« Reply #48 on: December 13, 2018, 09:52:01 AM »
But, even if they are equal, I don't like all of them.  And, people I don't like I don't invite.

Stop being so judgemental.

Offline Sanguine

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Re: What we should require of the dependent homeless
« Reply #49 on: December 13, 2018, 09:55:52 AM »
Cui bono?

Walk in Wisdom
See then that you walk circumspectly, not as fools but as wise, redeeming the time, because the days are evil.

But the noble make noble plans, and by noble deeds they stand.


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