Author Topic: What we should require of the dependent homeless  (Read 1785 times)

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Offline Skeptic

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What we should require of the dependent homeless
« on: December 10, 2018, 03:57:22 AM »
Homelessness has become a serious danger in many large U.S. cities. Some homeless are hopelessly dysfunctional with mental illnesses, some are criminals who fell out of the society they damaged, some are physically disabled and unable to work. Some are illegal aliens waiting for a construction crew to pick them up for cheap labor. Most of them have one thing in common; they don't have family or friends who would take them in and give them another chance.

Then there are the homeless people that can work and can function physically and mentally and arent a serious danger to society. This last crowd we've got the unlucky ones who were laid off and couldn't find work, the unlucky ones whose houses burnt down and they weren't insured, the unlucky ones who are good people but born into bad families who shortchanged them in life and denied them a steady start, broken homes, etc. You got some of them who were aggressively attacked and scandalled and left for dead by someone with more money and power than them. Its this last crowd that I'm focusing on right here.

The question is, what should we require and expect from these downtrodden hard and honest workers who lost it all? Getting out of homelessness is exceptionally difficult, even with a job. Starting with absolutely nothing is much harder than you think. What should we reasonably expect from these poor workers who depend on us to survive?

Here's my list.
The most important things a homeless person needs to get done in order of importance.

1. Get your proper identification. State ID card or drivers license, birth certificate and social security card. Without these things you cant get a job and you cant rent a house.

2. Get a mailing address. You can usually get an address in most American cities through a social service that you can use to retrieve your mail. My city is an exception. So you definitely don't want to be homeless here.

3. Get a job. If you can't find a mailing address to prove your residency to your employer you might just have to lie. Employers dont want to hire homeless people. If you tell everyone that interviews you that you are homeless your chances for landing a job shrinks by 90%.

4. Save your money. Saving your money while homeless is difficult but do your best. Get a bank account if you dont already got one. Do your best, we know its hard. Once you save up a few thousand dollars you'll be ready to re-enter functional society.

Dont let being homeless depress you. You can do it!

* NOTE: Less than a minute following this post my phone screen went white and then my phone restarted itself. Strange coincidence worth noting.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2018, 04:03:31 AM by Skeptic »
I won't accept.

Offline Skeptic

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Re: What we should require of the dependent homeless
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2018, 04:42:37 AM »
What we shouldn't require of the dependent homeless

Some things are ridiculously stupid to require someone to do in order to reclaim a normal life and get out of homelessness, heres some of those things

1. We shouldnt require that a homeless person be exploited or coerced. Some evil folks love taking advantage of a persons powerlessness while they are homeless and believe it or not some of these street prowlers that target homeless people are famous sports and rock stars and politicians. Truth is, its easy to coerce someone who has nothing and it shouldnt happen, especially if all they want to do is work and reclaim a decent life.

2. We shouldn't require that homeless person be a member of a religious crowd, a political party or any other organization in order to leave the street. If they want to work for money and are willing to pay their taxes, thats all they need right there. Making them financially independent is the goal, not increasing their emotional dependency and complicating their lives with additional activities that eat up their precious time. Time that can be used looking for work and working.

Anyone got anything to add?
« Last Edit: December 10, 2018, 04:54:59 AM by Skeptic »
I won't accept.

Offline libertybele

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Re: What we should require of the dependent homeless
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2018, 06:13:11 PM »
Homelessness has become a serious danger in many large U.S. cities. Some homeless are hopelessly dysfunctional with mental illnesses, some are criminals who fell out of the society they damaged, some are physically disabled and unable to work. Some are illegal aliens waiting for a construction crew to pick them up for cheap labor. Most of them have one thing in common; they don't have family or friends who would take them in and give them another chance.

Then there are the homeless people that can work and can function physically and mentally and arent a serious danger to society. This last crowd we've got the unlucky ones who were laid off and couldn't find work, the unlucky ones whose houses burnt down and they weren't insured, the unlucky ones who are good people but born into bad families who shortchanged them in life and denied them a steady start, broken homes, etc. You got some of them who were aggressively attacked and scandalled and left for dead by someone with more money and power than them. Its this last crowd that I'm focusing on right here.

The question is, what should we require and expect from these downtrodden hard and honest workers who lost it all? Getting out of homelessness is exceptionally difficult, even with a job. Starting with absolutely nothing is much harder than you think. What should we reasonably expect from these poor workers who depend on us to survive?

Here's my list.
The most important things a homeless person needs to get done in order of importance.

1. Get your proper identification. State ID card or drivers license, birth certificate and social security card. Without these things you cant get a job and you cant rent a house.

2. Get a mailing address. You can usually get an address in most American cities through a social service that you can use to retrieve your mail. My city is an exception. So you definitely don't want to be homeless here.

3. Get a job. If you can't find a mailing address to prove your residency to your employer you might just have to lie. Employers dont want to hire homeless people. If you tell everyone that interviews you that you are homeless your chances for landing a job shrinks by 90%.

4. Save your money. Saving your money while homeless is difficult but do your best. Get a bank account if you dont already got one. Do your best, we know its hard. Once you save up a few thousand dollars you'll be ready to re-enter functional society.

Dont let being homeless depress you. You can do it!

* NOTE: Less than a minute following this post my phone screen went white and then my phone restarted itself. Strange coincidence worth noting.

Wow.   I can't believe what I'm reading. If you're homeless, get a bank account?  It takes money to open a bank account and for many accounts if you don't maintain a particular balance you are charged.  Most homeless people don't have the money to open account nor maintain a balance -- they use the money to eat and survive!

Get a state ID, birth certificate, etc.  -- again that all takes $$ --- money that is spent on survival on the streets.

Homeless people don't normally have access to desirable interview clothing, a shower and transportation.

The one that surprised me the most is your advice to LIE!!  Seriously??

The statistics are alarming:

Nearly 80% of workers are living paycheck to paycheck.

39.7 Million people live in poverty.

6 in 10 Americans don't have $500 saved.

"I believe in the United States of America as a Government of the people, by the people, for the people; whose just powers are derived from the consent of the governed; a democracy in a republic; a sovereign nation of many sovereign states; a perfect union one and inseparable; established upon those principles of freedom, equality, justice and humanity for which American patriots sacrificed their lives and fortunes. I therefore believe it is my duty to my country to love it; to support its Constitution; to obey it laws; to respect its flag; and to defend it against all enemies." -William Page

Offline Dexter

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Re: What we should require of the dependent homeless
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2018, 06:22:32 PM »
Nearly 80% of workers are living paycheck to paycheck.

39.7 Million people live in poverty.

6 in 10 Americans don't have $500 saved.

What do you think we could do to mitigate those problems?
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Offline The Ghost

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Re: What we should require of the dependent homeless
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2018, 06:27:29 PM »
What do you think we could do to mitigate those problems?

Nothing.  We need to decrease our surplus population.  If we can't throw them in jail then they should be left to die on the streets of their own accord.  Preferable in a cold climate so to keep the smell down and not gag the productive citizenry stepping over them on the way to their jobs.
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Offline rustynail

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Re: What we should require of the dependent homeless
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2018, 06:37:08 PM »
Their votes?

Online roamer_1

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Re: What we should require of the dependent homeless
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2018, 06:43:53 PM »
What do you think we could do to mitigate those problems?

Stop taxing production and income. tax consumption instead (less food, medical, and modest housing.)
Lower regulation and licensing bars, and reduce the troubles put upon employers in order to make hiring more attractive.

More than anything, the cost of government has to be cut to a proper level (less than a quarter of what we have now, hopefully a tenth of GNP), and the debt weight on the dollar needs to be paid, so the dollar has value again.

The very government you adore is the garrote upon the neck of Americans.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2018, 06:45:08 PM by roamer_1 »

Offline Elderberry

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Re: What we should require of the dependent homeless
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2018, 07:05:53 PM »
You are looking down from "On High", making your list of "Most Importants" way, way down the list, from a list from the viewpoint, of a "Homeless Person".

One needs to start from what is most important for "Basic Survival" and then work from there.

Quote
Survival Rule of 3 and Survival Priorities

For real survival situations it is better to remember and prioritize by the four levels of the Survival Rules of 3:

    You can survive for 3 Minutes without air (oxygen) or in icy water
    You can survive for 3 Hours without shelter in a harsh environment (unless in icy water)
    You can survive for 3 Days without water (if sheltered from a harsh environment)
    You can survive for 3 Weeks without food (if you have water and shelter)

And then one can focus on odd jobs, better shelter, and steadily improving One's "Lot in Life".

At that point "Your List" can come into play.

He who makes an attempt to enslave me, thereby puts himself into a state of war with me.

Offline libertybele

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Re: What we should require of the dependent homeless
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2018, 07:18:24 PM »
Stop taxing production and income. tax consumption instead (less food, medical, and modest housing.)
Lower regulation and licensing bars, and reduce the troubles put upon employers in order to make hiring more attractive.

More than anything, the cost of government has to be cut to a proper level (less than a quarter of what we have now, hopefully a tenth of GNP), and the debt weight on the dollar needs to be paid, so the dollar has value again.

The very government you adore is the garrote upon the neck of Americans.

 :amen:

Work programs need to be brought back giving folks a chance to make a living and get some training.

Back in the '80's I had a friend who went through a nasty divorce; deadbeat husband deadbbeat dad.  She wound up finding a job through a work program.  The company she worked for rec'd incentives for hiring and training.  She was able to secure subsidized housing and food and eventually was able to support herself and her daughter.  It was heart breaking at times to see her struggle; they many times would have a can of soup and a piece of bread between the two of them for dinner and I remember her taking a piece of her old jeans in order to make her daughter's jeans longer so she could wear them so the kids wouldn't make fun of her for them being too short. I babysat for her while she worked at night (shift premium) and sometimes she would just breakdown in tears.  She had a sister and no other family. No friends.

Her biggest stumbling block to her getting back on her feet, was the embarrassment that surrounded her having to seek help and get the subsidies.

I now wonder what she would have done if that program wasn't in place?
"I believe in the United States of America as a Government of the people, by the people, for the people; whose just powers are derived from the consent of the governed; a democracy in a republic; a sovereign nation of many sovereign states; a perfect union one and inseparable; established upon those principles of freedom, equality, justice and humanity for which American patriots sacrificed their lives and fortunes. I therefore believe it is my duty to my country to love it; to support its Constitution; to obey it laws; to respect its flag; and to defend it against all enemies." -William Page

Online roamer_1

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Re: What we should require of the dependent homeless
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2018, 07:18:58 PM »
You are looking down from "On High", making your list of "Most Importants" way, way down the list, from a list from the viewpoint, of a "Homeless Person".

One needs to start from what is most important for "Basic Survival" and then work from there.

And then one can focus on odd jobs, better shelter, and steadily improving One's "Lot in Life".

At that point "Your List" can come into play.

That's all right - But often circumstance prevents even trying - For instance, I know a LOT of guys who are homeless who have no percentage in excelling, because debt that cannot be discharged makes them entirely unable to succeed. Huge bills for college, child support payments, court demands wrt alimony and 'equity', and there is a weight on them they cannot bear.

I had a particular employee, a great worker, whose attachments to his  wages left him with about 200 bucks a month to survive on. He lived in a shed attached to my shop for a while, and kept an eye on the place for me... All of us helped him out as we could, with canned goods, and clothes and such... We had him rigged up alright with access to the shop internet, and a decent TV... He lived better there than he had in years... Till the government decided he was getting rent in lieu of wage, which got me in trouble with the county for having living quarters in a commercial area...

By the time it was done, he was living in a box by the river, without a job, and I got hung with a big bill from my lawyers and a no contest decision to pay for.


Online roamer_1

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Re: What we should require of the dependent homeless
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2018, 07:34:34 PM »
:amen:

Work programs need to be brought back giving folks a chance to make a living and get some training.


Right - But more than that, taxing income prevents savings. Taxing consumption (fair tax, retail(only) tax) allows or encourages savings. If you are up against hard times, you have the option to consume less - tighten the belt and make do, without the penalty of Uncle getting his rake off of you in spite of your difficulty. And a consumption tax puts the government into partnership with the citizen, it being in the interest of both for the economy to remain stable and productive.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2018, 07:36:43 PM by roamer_1 »

Offline Sanguine

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Re: What we should require of the dependent homeless
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2018, 07:38:58 PM »
Interesting conversation.  BKMK
Cui bono?

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Offline libertybele

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Re: What we should require of the dependent homeless
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2018, 07:52:26 PM »
That's all right - But often circumstance prevents even trying - For instance, I know a LOT of guys who are homeless who have no percentage in excelling, because debt that cannot be discharged makes them entirely unable to succeed. Huge bills for college, child support payments, court demands wrt alimony and 'equity', and there is a weight on them they cannot bear.

I had a particular employee, a great worker, whose attachments to his  wages left him with about 200 bucks a month to survive on. He lived in a shed attached to my shop for a while, and kept an eye on the place for me... All of us helped him out as we could, with canned goods, and clothes and such... We had him rigged up alright with access to the shop internet, and a decent TV... He lived better there than he had in years... Till the government decided he was getting rent in lieu of wage, which got me in trouble with the county for having living quarters in a commercial area...

By the time it was done, he was living in a box by the river, without a job, and I got hung with a big bill from my lawyers and a no contest decision to pay for.

 9999hair out0000
"I believe in the United States of America as a Government of the people, by the people, for the people; whose just powers are derived from the consent of the governed; a democracy in a republic; a sovereign nation of many sovereign states; a perfect union one and inseparable; established upon those principles of freedom, equality, justice and humanity for which American patriots sacrificed their lives and fortunes. I therefore believe it is my duty to my country to love it; to support its Constitution; to obey it laws; to respect its flag; and to defend it against all enemies." -William Page

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Re: What we should require of the dependent homeless
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2018, 07:54:48 PM »
Stop taxing production and income. tax consumption instead (less food, medical, and modest housing.)
Lower regulation and licensing bars, and reduce the troubles put upon employers in order to make hiring more attractive.

More than anything, the cost of government has to be cut to a proper level (less than a quarter of what we have now, hopefully a tenth of GNP), and the debt weight on the dollar needs to be paid, so the dollar has value again.

The very government you adore is the garrote upon the neck of Americans.

Amen Brother @roamer_1 !  AMEN!!!

Offline Frank Cannon

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Re: What we should require of the dependent homeless
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2018, 07:59:58 PM »
2. Get a mailing address.

Van down by the river?


Online roamer_1

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Re: What we should require of the dependent homeless
« Reply #15 on: December 12, 2018, 08:01:54 PM »
2. Get a mailing address.

Van down by the river?


Hey. I've told you before... Stay the hell away from my place.

Offline Frank Cannon

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Re: What we should require of the dependent homeless
« Reply #16 on: December 12, 2018, 08:07:54 PM »
Hey. I've told you before... Stay the hell away from my place.

Ah hell. Looks like that address is already taken. Maybe refrigerator box under a bridge is still open?

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Re: What we should require of the dependent homeless
« Reply #17 on: December 12, 2018, 08:15:51 PM »
"We" shouldn't require shit.  They need to find these things out on their own, because you can't "make" anybody accept any of this.
I will NOT comply.
                                                                            
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Offline Axeslinger

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Re: What we should require of the dependent homeless
« Reply #18 on: December 12, 2018, 08:21:16 PM »
Couldn’t agree more @roamer_1

The number one thing that the homeless and economically disadvantaged need is this:  a job...any job.
The number two thing they need?   Another job.   And another one after that.  You can sleep when you’re dead.  BUT the one thing the VAST majority of them do not have?  The DESIRE to put in the real, hard, shoveling shit, eating crap sandwich WORK that it takes to alter their equation.

Now some will probably think I sound like a cold heartless sonofabitch...and maybe I am...but I am because I speak from experience.  Have I been homeless?  No.  Have I been within days or hell, even hours of being homeless?   You’re damn right I have.  But I have worked two jobs through most of my life and long periods of having three at once.  I once worked 9 months without one single day off, not a weekend, not a holiday...not a single day.


The most important factor to fix the problem?  The WANT TO.  And you can’t give that to someone else.

Sorry, rant off.
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Offline Sanguine

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Re: What we should require of the dependent homeless
« Reply #19 on: December 12, 2018, 08:28:08 PM »
One other factor, many, many of these people are receiving SSDI to support their addictions.
Cui bono?

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See then that you walk circumspectly, not as fools but as wise, redeeming the time, because the days are evil.

But the noble make noble plans, and by noble deeds they stand.

Online roamer_1

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Re: What we should require of the dependent homeless
« Reply #20 on: December 12, 2018, 08:31:51 PM »
Ah hell. Looks like that address is already taken. Maybe refrigerator box under a bridge is still open?

I don't know. But you've got to stop sneaking around with your camera. It's creepy. Heck the tenement gals won't even come over anymore with you hangin around with your box of wine, and flashing your ambassador credentials. And dude.... Mogen David? Really?

Online roamer_1

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Re: What we should require of the dependent homeless
« Reply #21 on: December 12, 2018, 08:35:48 PM »
BUT the one thing the VAST majority of them do not have?  The DESIRE to put in the real, hard, shoveling shit, eating crap sandwich WORK that it takes to alter their equation.


I don't know the whole answer @Axeslinger ... but I do know this: It has to be harder on the bottom than one rung up, and there has to be a way to climb out... both of which are not true right now.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2018, 08:37:16 PM by roamer_1 »

Offline Sanguine

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Re: What we should require of the dependent homeless
« Reply #22 on: December 12, 2018, 08:37:14 PM »
I don't know. But you've got to stop sneaking around with your camera. It's creepy. Heck the tenement gals won't even come over anymore with you hangin around with your box of wine, and flashing your ambassador credentials. And dude.... Mogen David? Really?

I wonder if this is Frank's favorite:

Cui bono?

Walk in Wisdom
See then that you walk circumspectly, not as fools but as wise, redeeming the time, because the days are evil.

But the noble make noble plans, and by noble deeds they stand.

Online roamer_1

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Re: What we should require of the dependent homeless
« Reply #23 on: December 12, 2018, 08:39:56 PM »
I wonder if this is Frank's favorite:



I can't tell... he's got all the flavors ever since he started that misbegotten shaved ice business.

Offline Sanguine

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Re: What we should require of the dependent homeless
« Reply #24 on: December 12, 2018, 08:44:27 PM »
I can't tell... he's got all the flavors ever since he started that misbegotten shaved ice business.

You think it glows in the dark?
Cui bono?

Walk in Wisdom
See then that you walk circumspectly, not as fools but as wise, redeeming the time, because the days are evil.

But the noble make noble plans, and by noble deeds they stand.


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