Author Topic: Why Most of America Is Terrible at Making Biscuits  (Read 30341 times)

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Online roamer_1

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Re: Why Most of America Is Terrible at Making Biscuits
« Reply #25 on: November 26, 2018, 02:30:56 am »
Freeze your left-over buttermilk. It keeps just fine frozen.

Now how come I didn't think of that? Another one of those things for the ice-cube-tray trick.
LOL! How dumb.

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Re: Why Most of America Is Terrible at Making Biscuits
« Reply #26 on: November 26, 2018, 02:36:37 am »
https://www.tasteofhome.com/cooking-tips/ask-the-test-kitchen/buttermilk-substitute

Thanks. I have buttermilk around... If you make butter, you get buttermilk... It just goes bad too quick... I like freezing it like @Elderberry said - How dumb I didn't think to do it...

I usually just mix it into sprouted grain for the chickens.

Offline goodwithagun

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Re: Why Most of America Is Terrible at Making Biscuits
« Reply #27 on: November 26, 2018, 02:38:49 am »
Thanks. I have buttermilk around... If you make butter, you get buttermilk... It just goes bad too quick... I like freezing it like @Elderberry said - How dumb I didn't think to do it...

I usually just mix it into sprouted grain for the chickens.

Those gals will smother you in your sleep if they find out you’re freezing it instead of giving it to them  :nono:
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Offline RoosGirl

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Re: Why Most of America Is Terrible at Making Biscuits
« Reply #28 on: November 26, 2018, 02:46:03 am »
Thanks. I have buttermilk around... If you make butter, you get buttermilk... It just goes bad too quick... I like freezing it like @Elderberry said - How dumb I didn't think to do it...

I usually just mix it into sprouted grain for the chickens.

I love fresh made butter. 

Here's what I don't understand.  Most of the buttermilk you buy in the store these days is cultured and not real buttermilk.  Wouldn't skim milk be more similar to real buttermilk if you were going to substitute?

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Re: Why Most of America Is Terrible at Making Biscuits
« Reply #29 on: November 26, 2018, 03:40:32 am »
Those gals will smother you in your sleep if they find out you’re freezing it instead of giving it to them  :nono:

LOL! I know, right?

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Re: Why Most of America Is Terrible at Making Biscuits
« Reply #30 on: November 26, 2018, 03:49:56 am »
I love fresh made butter. 

Here's what I don't understand.  Most of the buttermilk you buy in the store these days is cultured and not real buttermilk.  Wouldn't skim milk be more similar to real buttermilk if you were going to substitute?

Yeah, I dunno...
I done that vinegar and milk thing like in the link you sent, but all that gives me is ganky curdled milk... Ain't buttermilk at all... But maybe that's because of the cream content I have - I usually use raw milk, or red-cap if I have to buy from the store...  So that dog don't hunt for me... Never did the tartar thing, so I will try that, maybe... but freezing up buttermilk seems to be what is best.

I really hate that I didn't think of that for all these years.  *****rollingeyes***** **nononono*
Dumb kid.

I have old-school stainless ice cube trays, and all sorts of crap goes through them things... If produce is going bad, I will worry it up in the blender and pour it out in them trays, freeze it, and store it in zippys, and throw it into stock for flavor and body... Lemon juice - I buy it in jugs and freeze it up in them ice trays... stuff like that... SO that I didn't think of that for buttermilk really, really cheeses me off. That's a helluva lot of buttermilk biscuits I went without, right there.

Offline RoosGirl

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Re: Why Most of America Is Terrible at Making Biscuits
« Reply #31 on: November 26, 2018, 03:54:20 am »
Yeah, I dunno...
I done that vinegar and milk thing like in the link you sent, but all that gives me is ganky curdled milk... Ain't buttermilk at all... But maybe that's because of the cream content I have - I usually use raw milk, or red-cap if I have to buy from the store...  So that dog don't hunt for me... Never did the tartar thing, so I will try that, maybe... but freezing up buttermilk seems to be what is best.

I really hate that I didn't think of that for all these years.  *****rollingeyes***** **nononono*
Dumb kid.

I have old-school stainless ice cube trays, and all sorts of crap goes through them things... If produce is going bad, I will worry it up in the blender and pour it out in them trays, freeze it, and store it in zippys, and throw it into stock for flavor and body... Lemon juice - I buy it in jugs and freeze it up in them ice trays... stuff like that... SO that I didn't think of that for buttermilk really, really cheeses me off. That's a helluva lot of buttermilk biscuits I went without, right there.

I don't think you'll have any more luck with the cream of tartar.  It's just an acid, like the vinegar, that's going to make regular milk curdle.  Maybe if after it curdles you take an immersion blender to it to smooth it all out?  Then you would get that tart cultured buttermilk taste.  But I have to believe that all the old-time recipes that call for buttermilk are not meant to be with cultured buttermilk; I think those folks would have real buttermilk just like you do.

You can get buttermilk powder, so maybe a pinch of that plus regular milk in your biscuits would give you a better flavor?

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Re: Why Most of America Is Terrible at Making Biscuits
« Reply #32 on: November 26, 2018, 04:50:57 am »
I don't think you'll have any more luck with the cream of tartar.  It's just an acid, like the vinegar, that's going to make regular milk curdle.  Maybe if after it curdles you take an immersion blender to it to smooth it all out?  Then you would get that tart cultured buttermilk taste.  But I have to believe that all the old-time recipes that call for buttermilk are not meant to be with cultured buttermilk; I think those folks would have real buttermilk just like you do.


Well, thinking it through... butter is just congealed milk fats, so buttermilk would be milk without the fats... Along that line, I think you'd rather strain the curdle off, and use everything but... because what curdles is the fat. So yeah, I think your idea of white-cap milk being 'closer' is probably true...

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You can get buttermilk powder, so maybe a pinch of that plus regular milk in your biscuits would give you a better flavor?

It ain't the same - fussin with it out in the sticks, 3/4 buttermilk powder to 1/4 milk powder gets you closer... But it ain't nothing the same as fresh, real buttermilk biscuits. Still a treat, out in the sticks, and really good because it is not bannock bread, but the standard out there is different, because bannock is the only norm.

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Re: Why Most of America Is Terrible at Making Biscuits
« Reply #33 on: November 26, 2018, 02:35:39 pm »
Grandma taught me how to make some kick ass biscuits and gravy!

Share the recipe, if you can get it!  It's the Kitchen here...
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Offline Idaho_Cowboy

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Re: Why Most of America Is Terrible at Making Biscuits
« Reply #34 on: November 28, 2018, 12:50:17 pm »
I agree, I stick with more natural products.  There are certain brands of flour that use soft wheat.  The article talks about White Lily...
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I don't know what kind of grain goes into King Arthur flour, but it makes good biscuits.
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Re: Why Most of America Is Terrible at Making Biscuits
« Reply #35 on: November 28, 2018, 01:07:20 pm »
My favorite flour for pancakes is buckwheat. It has a unique flavor that is wonderful with butter and a touch of syrup. Haven't tried tried making buckwheat biscuits, but it sounds good. Maybe I'll give it a go.

BTW, because I love whole wheats and many different kinds of vegetables, I am never constipated. I eat this stuff, spinach, celery, whole wheat, kale, fresh green beans, etc. because I like it. It is a coincidence that it happens to have a salubrious side benefit. I would eat it even if it was bad for me.
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Offline goodwithagun

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Re: Why Most of America Is Terrible at Making Biscuits
« Reply #36 on: November 28, 2018, 01:09:56 pm »
My favorite flour for pancakes is buckwheat. It has a unique flavor that is wonderful with butter and a touch of syrup. Haven't tried tried making buckwheat biscuits, but it sounds good. Maybe I'll give it a go.

BTW, because I love whole wheats and many different kinds of vegetables, I am never constipated. I eat this stuff, spinach, celery, whole wheat, kale, fresh green beans, etc. because I like it. It is a coincidence that it happens to have a salubrious side benefit. I would eat it even if it was bad for me.

My mom has always made buckwheat pancakes and they are delicious. They really stand up to the maple syrup, unlike white flour pancakes which can become too soggy too quickly.
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Re: Why Most of America Is Terrible at Making Biscuits
« Reply #37 on: November 28, 2018, 01:11:03 pm »
I found this article posted back in National Biscuit Month.

Mmm, biscuits: Southern chefs spill the secrets to fluffy, flaky, perfect homemade biscuits

https://www.today.com/food/mmm-biscuits-southern-chefs-spill-secrets-fluffy-flaky-perfect-diy-1D80117495

Quote
"A good biscuit starts with good flour," says Jason Roy, owner of Biscuit Head. Like many Southern cooks, he uses self-rising flour because it's pre-mixed to include a blend of hard and soft wheat as well as a leavening ingredient for the perfect rise—something you can't get in plain all-purpose, cake, or pastry flour. (Want to really do as the Southerners do? Try White Lily self-rising flour, available nationwide at specialty supermarkets and online.

Whether you use shortening, lard or butter as your fat of choice, "snap it in" like Brian Sonoskus, chef of Tupelo Honey Café, does. "Pinch the flour and fat together like you're snapping your fingers," he explains. This creates thin sheets of butter that create puff pastry-like layers in your biscuits.

For soft and fluffy biscuits, blend the liquid and dry ingredients just until the dough "resembles cottage cheese," Sonoskus says. This stops you from activating too much gluten in the flour and ending up with a tougher biscuit that doesn't rise as high. But even if you mix too much, don't worry. "Denser biscuits have their place—they're better for making sandwiches," he rationalizes.

Gently shape biscuits with an ice cream scoop instead of a biscuit cutter. That's what Roy does to make Biscuit Head's oversized cathead biscuits, so-called because they're as big as a cat's noggin. Whether you make them big or small, it's an incredibly easy and foolproof technique. Don't have a spring-loaded scoop? Use a measuring cup and a silicone spatula.

Use real buttermilk if you can get it. Both chefs pledge allegiance to Asheville-based Cruze Dairy's whole-milk buttermilk for its unsurpassed creaminess and acidity. Look for local farms in your area to get the good stuff, not the watery low-fat substitutions found at the supermarket.

More at link.

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Re: Why Most of America Is Terrible at Making Biscuits
« Reply #38 on: November 28, 2018, 01:40:31 pm »
Almost any recipe that requires milk, will be made more flavorful and rich by using buttermilk. I realize that many/most people do not like the taste of buttermilk. I drink it as a treat. A glass of buttermilk with lots of cornbread stuffed in the glass is like pudding to me. But the sharp taste does not translate when it is used in cooking. Give it a try. You will notice the difference.
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Re: Why Most of America Is Terrible at Making Biscuits
« Reply #39 on: November 28, 2018, 02:15:16 pm »
What is Whole-Milk Buttermilk? Can You Substitute It?

https://food52.com/blog/21712-the-unicorn-of-the-dairy-aisle

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Like almond milk or oat milk, buttermilk is just what it sounds like—milk made from butter. Well, sort of. There are two ways to go about it. One, fresh: Start with sweet, heavy cream, then churn (a food processor works well) until the butter and buttermilk go their separate ways. Two, cultured: Start with crème fraîche, then proceed as usual. The latter produces a bright, tangy liquid that is inevitably, naturally low-fat, because the butter hoarded most of the milk fat for itself. In other words: Whole-milk buttermilk is an oxymoron, like fat-free cream. So why, then, are more and more chefs and cookbook authors putting it on a pedestal, insisting we seek it out?

When I was in North Carolina, I worked in a bakery for years, making dozens of buttermilk biscuits every day. Whole-milk buttermilk biscuits. Locally produced, real deal, as pure as you can get. Or was it? I gave our supplier, Randy Lewis, a ring and asked him just that: “Randy, what gives? Isn’t whole-milk buttermilk—by definition—an impossibility?”

“You would be correct,” he hollered over the cows mooing in the background. This was just before 9 p.m., which is, apparently, their dinnertime. “If buttermilk were still the by-product of making butter.”

Plot twist—it’s not. At least, not according to contemporary federal food regulations. When Randy started his small-scale, family-run, fewer-than-100-cows farm, he planned to make buttermilk by, well, making butter. Turns out that traditional buttermilk would have to be called something like “cultured butter by-product beverage.” And you can imagine how this would just fly off the supermarket shelves. Mmm, get me some of that.

“Now, buttermilk is just cultured milk. It has nothing to do with butter. And whether it’s full-fat or low-fat depends on the milk you start with,” Randy explained. He starts with milk—and doesn’t separate the cream, so figure between 3.8 and 5 percent butterfat, depending on the season—then pasteurizes, cools, and innoculates it with Flora Danica, a pretty popular culture for this purpose. A little salt for taste. That’s it. Nowadays, buttermilk doesn’t get more honest than that—and it makes great biscuits, to boot.

Most mass-produced, supermarket-accessible copycats aren’t as pretty. Think thickeners and preservatives, flavorings and “real butter flakes!” Then, depending on where you live, you might be hard-pressed to find whole-milk buttermilk at all. When I lived in the South, I could—if I went to the right store, on the right day—but these products were always locally produced. Here in the North, it’s a unicorn. In 2012, Julia Moskin over at the New York Times wrote that this hunt wasn’t even worth it:

    Some supermarkets carry a product called “whole-milk buttermilk” from big dairies like Gustafson’s in Florida and Marburger Farm in Pennsylvania. It is a richer milk than true buttermilk, with cultures added that move the flavor in the rich, tangy direction of sour cream. But be aware that it can also contain additives for flavor, color, and thickness.



Offline ConstitutionRose

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Re: Why Most of America Is Terrible at Making Biscuits
« Reply #40 on: November 28, 2018, 02:46:54 pm »
I agree, I stick with more natural products.  There are certain brands of flour that use soft wheat.  The article talks about White Lily, but that's generally only available in the south.  I think King Arthur brand also uses soft wheat.

King Arthur has several types of flour.  I had a serious craving for shortbread like my Mother used to make.  Tried several times and it wasn't right, until I bought the King Arthur flour.  I am NOT going to get serious about biscuits though.  Husband's A1C is below 8 for the first time in his adult life.  Biscuits would undo that in short order.
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Offline ConstitutionRose

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Re: Why Most of America Is Terrible at Making Biscuits
« Reply #41 on: November 28, 2018, 02:52:02 pm »
Almost any recipe that requires milk, will be made more flavorful and rich by using buttermilk. I realize that many/most people do not like the taste of buttermilk. I drink it as a treat. A glass of buttermilk with lots of cornbread stuffed in the glass is like pudding to me. But the sharp taste does not translate when it is used in cooking. Give it a try. You will notice the difference.
My Dad had cornbread and buttermilk every night.  I am with you!  Cornbread and buttermilk is heaven. 

For folks who don't want to keep buttermilk, there is a powdered buttermilk that adds the richer flavor.  I use it in bread making and in cakes and other baking, especially when I am low on buttermilk.
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Re: Why Most of America Is Terrible at Making Biscuits
« Reply #42 on: November 28, 2018, 03:12:56 pm »
I can’t make biscuits.

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Re: Why Most of America Is Terrible at Making Biscuits
« Reply #43 on: November 28, 2018, 03:15:04 pm »
Milk is fine for me because I don't like a fluffy biscuit. I want it flat and hard so I can toast it and put gravy on it. Bisquick makes a decent biscuit when you are on the road.
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Offline InHeavenThereIsNoBeer

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Re: Why Most of America Is Terrible at Making Biscuits
« Reply #44 on: November 28, 2018, 03:21:54 pm »
My favorite flour for pancakes is buckwheat. It has a unique flavor that is wonderful with butter and a touch of syrup. Haven't tried tried making buckwheat biscuits, but it sounds good. Maybe I'll give it a go.

BTW, because I love whole wheats and many different kinds of vegetables, I am never constipated. I eat this stuff, spinach, celery, whole wheat, kale, fresh green beans, etc. because I like it. It is a coincidence that it happens to have a salubrious side benefit. I would eat it even if it was bad for me.

Where do you get bw flour?  The only place I've found is WF, and that's like $6 for a few cups.
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Re: Why Most of America Is Terrible at Making Biscuits
« Reply #45 on: November 28, 2018, 03:39:21 pm »
The Patriots, the original people in America who opposed British rule, ate what is called hard-tac. This is a dense biscuit of flour water, maybe some oil or flavoring if you are lucky, and baked at high temperature. This made a kind of flour jerky. It was a hard dry biscuit that never spoiled. The soldiers/sailors could keep it for days, months, in some cases years. It would never go bad. I have eaten it, raw, meaning that it was not steamed or soaked in water. It was hard as a rock. This was the 1600s version of MREs. Get a squirrel or rabbit, or deer, to go with it, and you got yourself a meal.
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Re: Why Most of America Is Terrible at Making Biscuits
« Reply #46 on: November 28, 2018, 04:42:21 pm »
According to the article the fat used doesn't make much difference.  The flour is what makes the difference, and the author recommends, based on the properties of different types of wheat, using flour made from soft wheat instead of hard wheat.

Does the article explain how you can know whether the wheat you're getting is soft or hard? 

P.S. to @Idaho_Cowboy and @goodwithagun:  I like real butter, especially on the biscuits (if there's no gravy available, that is), but I definitely prefer lard in some preparations because lard triggers my carnivorous appetite.  (Example:  Re-fried beans can't be made without lard, in my opinion.)
« Last Edit: November 28, 2018, 04:48:17 pm by the_doc »

Offline goodwithagun

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Re: Why Most of America Is Terrible at Making Biscuits
« Reply #47 on: November 28, 2018, 04:48:16 pm »
Does the article explain how you can know whether the wheat you're getting is soft or hard? 

P.S. to Idaho_Cowboy and @goodwithagun:  I like real butter, especially on the biscuits (if there's no gravy available, that is), but I definitely prefer lard in some preparations because lard triggers my carnivorous appetite.  (Example:  Re-fried beans can't be made without lard, in my opinion.)

Try using bacon grease in your refried beans.
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Offline the_doc

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Re: Why Most of America Is Terrible at Making Biscuits
« Reply #48 on: November 28, 2018, 04:50:03 pm »
Try using bacon grease in your refried beans.

There you go.  (Bacon grease is just heavy duty lard, as I see it.)

Offline RoosGirl

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Re: Why Most of America Is Terrible at Making Biscuits
« Reply #49 on: November 28, 2018, 06:22:23 pm »
Does the article explain how you can know whether the wheat you're getting is soft or hard? 

P.S. to @Idaho_Cowboy and @goodwithagun:  I like real butter, especially on the biscuits (if there's no gravy available, that is), but I definitely prefer lard in some preparations because lard triggers my carnivorous appetite.  (Example:  Re-fried beans can't be made without lard, in my opinion.)

Some packages will say on them.  I went ahead and looked at the King Arthur website and their self rising flour is soft wheat.