Author Topic: Ocasio-Cortez prepares for war… on her own party  (Read 33308 times)

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Offline Hoodat

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Re: Ocasio-Cortez prepares for war… on her own party
« Reply #325 on: November 22, 2018, 03:51:31 pm »
More of it has been grabbed and wasted by the government. The program would work fine if it was left unmolested.

No, it would not.  Left unmolested, it would already be bankrupt.  It is a ponzi scheme that relies solely on new suckers joining in to fund the checks of those drawing out.

And as already stated, it is the single biggest contributor for ensuring that the cycle of poverty gets repeated generation after generation.
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Offline Hoodat

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Re: Ocasio-Cortez prepares for war… on her own party
« Reply #326 on: November 22, 2018, 04:04:00 pm »
The majority of our national debt is owed to social security.

That gives our government a huge incentive not to pay it.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

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"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

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Offline roamer_1

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Re: Ocasio-Cortez prepares for war… on her own party
« Reply #327 on: November 22, 2018, 04:19:27 pm »
http://www.demog.berkeley.edu/~andrew/1918/figure2.html

I don't think that's right, or true. And I have asked it of very old men who remembered far back into their youth, and knew very old men back then.

I'd bet there are statistical shenanigans in those numbers.

Offline mirraflake

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Re: Ocasio-Cortez prepares for war… on her own party
« Reply #328 on: November 22, 2018, 04:44:36 pm »
@Fishrrman

Thank you. That is exactly what I will do.

I sell for Aetna, Blue Cross United health Care etc.  Find a independent insurance broker in your area and he/she will tell you the best  plan  for your area. 

Cloesly look at the doctor/hospital network in your area. Some carriers don't have good networks in all areas.

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Offline mirraflake

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Re: Ocasio-Cortez prepares for war… on her own party
« Reply #329 on: November 22, 2018, 04:51:16 pm »
Yes I would.  99.9% of Americans would be better off if the Government let them use the money that is taxed for these two programs to seek out their own healthcare and retirement plans without Federal interference.

Lol Nope.  75% of people would spend their retirement on a new Harley or vacations over the years and never have enough for retirement and you know it.

I think that stats are only 20-25% of Americans have more than $25k in retirement savings at age 65 and most of the 75% have less than 10k.

Then there would be unscrupoulus investment firms going belly up and ripping off savers.

Look what happened before SS, people were allowed to invest their own money and their seniors were near destitute and lived like the Waltons with grampa and granny living down the hall.

@LMAO


Offline LMAO

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Re: Ocasio-Cortez prepares for war… on her own party
« Reply #330 on: November 22, 2018, 05:04:05 pm »
Lol Nope.  75% of people would spend their retirement on a new Harley or vacations over the years and never have enough for retirement and you know it.

I think that stats are only 20-25% of Americans have more than $25k in retirement savings at age 65 and most of the 75% have less than 10k.

Then there would be unscrupoulus investment firms going belly up and ripping off savers.

Look what happened before SS, people were allowed to invest their own money and their seniors were near destitute and lived like the Waltons with grampa and granny living down the hall.

@LMAO

The quote you responded to wasn’t from me. But the poor savings rates by Americans is another issue to throw in the mix.

What a mess

« Last Edit: November 22, 2018, 05:06:58 pm by LMAO »
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Offline roamer_1

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Re: Ocasio-Cortez prepares for war… on her own party
« Reply #331 on: November 22, 2018, 05:06:04 pm »
Look what happened before SS, people were allowed to invest their own money and their seniors were near destitute and lived like the Waltons with grampa and granny living down the hall.


You make that sound like it's a bad thing.

Offline Hoodat

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Re: Ocasio-Cortez prepares for war… on her own party
« Reply #332 on: November 22, 2018, 05:20:08 pm »
Lol Nope.  75% of people would spend their retirement on a new Harley or vacations over the years and never have enough for retirement and you know it.

I think that stats are only 20-25% of Americans have more than $25k in retirement savings at age 65 and most of the 75% have less than 10k.

Then there would be unscrupoulus investment firms going belly up and ripping off savers.

@mirraflake

Your concern is valid.  Here is what I would like to see.  Currently, Government dictates that roughly 12.5% of everyone's income go into the Social Security ponzi scheme.  How about if Government instead kept the 12.5% mandate, but instead allowed workers to direct those funds into one or more government-approved investment accounts.  That way, there would be an actual investment backing the funds.  It is similar to what insurance companies do with the policy payments given to them.  And instead of government wasting their 12.5% by immediately spending it, that money instead would be fed directly into economic growth.

The worker would have a say on where his money is invested.  He would be able to track that investment similar to a 401(k).  And when he dies, he would have an actual inheritance to pass on to his children and grandchildren instead of government keeping it all.

One of the most racist aspects of government is Social Security.  The life expectancy of a black American lags by several years the life expectancy of a white American.  Which means that white Americans get more out of Social Security than black Americans at the same income level.  So when that black retiree dies at the age of 69 after only four years of collecting Social Security, the government hands his family a $255 check and keeps the rest.  And his children and grandchildren get no inheritance.  Yet if he has been allowed to invest that money, his family could have close to $1 million.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

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"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-

Offline dfwgator

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Re: Ocasio-Cortez prepares for war… on her own party
« Reply #333 on: November 22, 2018, 05:22:20 pm »

Look what happened before SS, people were allowed to invest their own money and their seniors were near destitute and lived like the Waltons with grampa and granny living down the hall.

@LMAO

Nothing wrong with extended families living together.  Lord knows the McMansions are big enough to accommodate them.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2018, 05:23:07 pm by dfwgator »

Offline roamer_1

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Re: Ocasio-Cortez prepares for war… on her own party
« Reply #334 on: November 22, 2018, 05:24:38 pm »
Nothing wrong with extended families living together.  Lord knows the McMansions are big enough to accommodate them.

Probably the single most destructive element of modern living is the removal of grandparents from the immediate family.

Offline LMAO

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Re: Ocasio-Cortez prepares for war… on her own party
« Reply #335 on: November 22, 2018, 05:28:01 pm »
You make that sound like it's a bad thing.

It’s not bad or good but it wasn’t uncommon for families to live under one roof. My grandma said the same thing they did when she was growing up.

These fiscal issues interest, and concern, me. I’m not naive enough to believe that without SS, people would save. We see that now. But as SS and Medicare face further pressure, what’s the answer? Dexter’s solution of just letting the government take over everything is not a solution and has its own set of problems. Ezekiel Emmanuel’s idea that after 72 or 75 you should get no healthcare? Tell people that they need to work until 75? Ignoring the issue isn’t a solution, either.


Conservatives sometimes are just as Utopia minded as the left
I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them.

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My Avatar is my adult autistic son Tommy

Offline mirraflake

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Re: Ocasio-Cortez prepares for war… on her own party
« Reply #336 on: November 22, 2018, 05:31:58 pm »
Would you folks really want your mother in law living with you rest of her life? 

My MIL (RIP)  would drive you batty in one day..trust me.

..and I would not want my parents RIP)  living with us either. My wife and I like our privacy.

My parents  when they were alive would never want to live with us kids and burden us and take away our privacy and told us as much-they liked their privacy as well.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2018, 05:34:30 pm by mirraflake »

Offline Dexter

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Re: Ocasio-Cortez prepares for war… on her own party
« Reply #337 on: November 22, 2018, 05:46:19 pm »
You don’t need to live in the same house to be close.
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Offline Dexter

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Re: Ocasio-Cortez prepares for war… on her own party
« Reply #338 on: November 22, 2018, 05:49:24 pm »

Conservatives sometimes are just as Utopia minded as the left

 :thumbsup:
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Offline InHeavenThereIsNoBeer

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Re: Ocasio-Cortez prepares for war… on her own party
« Reply #339 on: November 22, 2018, 05:57:25 pm »
I don't think that's right, or true. And I have asked it of very old men who remembered far back into their youth, and knew very old men back then.

I'd bet there are statistical shenanigans in those numbers.

Not shenanigans, the numbers simply include deaths in early childhood which have a huge impact on overall life expectancy for population as a whole.  Decreased infant mortality will show a higher life expectancy, even though the average adult isn't going to live a lot longer.

If you looked at life expectancy for 25 year olds, you'd see improvement, but not so substantial.  And that probably would make more sense when discussing something like SS.
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Offline roamer_1

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Re: Ocasio-Cortez prepares for war… on her own party
« Reply #340 on: November 22, 2018, 06:00:22 pm »
It’s not bad or good but it wasn’t uncommon for families to live under one roof. My grandma said the same thing they did when she was growing up.

These fiscal issues interest, and concern, me. I’m not naive enough to believe that without SS, people would save. We see that now. But as SS and Medicare face further pressure, what’s the answer? Dexter’s solution of just letting the government take over everything is not a solution and has its own set of problems. Ezekiel Emmanuel’s idea that after 72 or 75 you should get no healthcare? Tell people that they need to work until 75? Ignoring the issue isn’t a solution, either.


Conservatives sometimes are just as Utopia minded as the left

Back in the day, it was not uncommon for an aging father to turn the reigns over to one of his sons... The son got instant equity, and the return to the father was a stipend in the form of a payment, and likely a room or a floor of the big house where he, and more importantly and long lasting, his wife, would live out their golden years.

Before ordinances removed the capability, 'mother-in-law houses' were very common on any land holding of some size - A converted garage or boathouse... etc. Built in babysitting, built in help with the garden and the dinner table... The imparting of wisdom to the young, and purpose for the old.

One of the best run families that I know of had a big house... When the oldest lad got married, they built a honeymoon hut for them, right on the property... Three sons eventually moved into and out of that little house, and as their families grew, went on to build larger homes elsewhere on the same property. In the end, when the father finally hung up his guns, he and his wife moved into that little home, and his eldest son took over the big house.

It was a wonder to me, and a brilliant model - one communal garden with all the women participating... One communal set of barns and shops where the menfolk plied the family business and worked the livestock... And one common dinner table - All the women preparing together, and all of them sitting around that grand table in the dining room every night.

A very successful family, rich in wealth, materials, and love.

That is the 'utopia' that we have let go by. And it is a cryin shame.

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Ocasio-Cortez prepares for war… on her own party
« Reply #341 on: November 22, 2018, 06:49:38 pm »
More of it has been grabbed and wasted by the government. The program would work fine if it was left unmolested.

I guess we'll have to start it anew. 

Hey, I have an idea!  Why don't we just throw all the old people that worked their whole lives out of the system, and leave the people who lived on welfare their whole lives stay in?  That would save oodles of cash for young people in it today.  Like you, coincidentally.  I'm sure you can use your growing population of voters to push Congress to pass the required laws.  As more and more people get old and croak, your day will come.

They're already talking about means-testing SS, so people who saved get cut out because they're "rich" and don't need SS like the folks who saved nothing for retirement can get it.   Makes perfect sense to the Progressive mind, I'd think.  BTW, every time it's said "Why does Bill Gates deserve SS?" I answer "Because he paid for it."
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Ocasio-Cortez prepares for war… on her own party
« Reply #342 on: November 22, 2018, 07:22:43 pm »
I sell for Aetna, Blue Cross United health Care etc.  Find a independent insurance broker in your area and he/she will tell you the best  plan  for your area. 

Cloesly look at the doctor/hospital network in your area. Some carriers don't have good networks in all areas.

@sneakypete

@mirraflake

Thanks,but I try to avoid the closest hospital in my area if possible.
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Ocasio-Cortez prepares for war… on her own party
« Reply #343 on: November 22, 2018, 07:32:25 pm »
It’s not bad or good but it wasn’t uncommon for families to live under one roof. My grandma said the same thing they did when she was growing up.

These fiscal issues interest, and concern, me. I’m not naive enough to believe that without SS, people would save. We see that now.

@LMAO

I personally know people that worked all their lives as commercial fishermen,scrappers,etc,etc,etc who never paid a dime into SS and never saved a dime. I even know people who hit 62 who had never had a steady job in their lives. They lived with mama,and only worked when they needed money.

 One is now 75 and running up and down the road with a rollback everyday to have enough money to live and pay his property taxes. Beat up and stiff from car accidents,work accidents,working in bad weather,etc,etc,etc. Nice guy,hard worker,not stupid,but never paid in a dime other than what the army paid when he was drafted,and never saved a dime. He did set his 4 kids up in businesses or trades,though. All his money went to build his business and to give his kids a start  on a good life. Never drank,gambled,or did any of the other foolish things other than forget to take care of himself.

I also know people that retired and sold successful businesses,and between what they got from their businesses and the investments they made,are living pretty good.
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Offline dfwgator

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Re: Ocasio-Cortez prepares for war… on her own party
« Reply #344 on: November 22, 2018, 07:42:28 pm »


That is the 'utopia' that we have let go by. And it is a cryin shame.

And Big Government moved in and filled that void.

Offline roamer_1

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Re: Ocasio-Cortez prepares for war… on her own party
« Reply #345 on: November 22, 2018, 07:43:19 pm »
And Big Government moved in and filled that void.

That's right.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Ocasio-Cortez prepares for war… on her own party
« Reply #346 on: November 22, 2018, 10:41:36 pm »
And here I thought SS struggles were related to the government stealing from our funds. Automation ultimately will make this stuff easier.
And everyone dances around the 60,000,000 people who could have been paying in since Roe....
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Offline roamer_1

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Re: Ocasio-Cortez prepares for war… on her own party
« Reply #347 on: November 22, 2018, 10:53:58 pm »
And everyone dances around the 60,000,000 people who could have been paying in since Roe....

An excellent point.

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Re: Ocasio-Cortez prepares for war… on her own party
« Reply #348 on: November 22, 2018, 11:41:31 pm »
And here I thought SS struggles were related to the government stealing from our funds.
That is a myth. It was never stolen, only invested in bonds. Left alone, the fund would be even smaller because it wouldn't be earning interest. (Much of that is just a tricky way of diverting general tax revenue into the fund under the category of "debt service.")
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Offline Free Vulcan

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Re: Ocasio-Cortez prepares for war… on her own party
« Reply #349 on: November 23, 2018, 12:30:00 am »
Back in the day, it was not uncommon for an aging father to turn the reigns over to one of his sons... The son got instant equity, and the return to the father was a stipend in the form of a payment, and likely a room or a floor of the big house where he, and more importantly and long lasting, his wife, would live out their golden years.

Before ordinances removed the capability, 'mother-in-law houses' were very common on any land holding of some size - A converted garage or boathouse... etc. Built in babysitting, built in help with the garden and the dinner table... The imparting of wisdom to the young, and purpose for the old.

One of the best run families that I know of had a big house... When the oldest lad got married, they built a honeymoon hut for them, right on the property... Three sons eventually moved into and out of that little house, and as their families grew, went on to build larger homes elsewhere on the same property. In the end, when the father finally hung up his guns, he and his wife moved into that little home, and his eldest son took over the big house.

It was a wonder to me, and a brilliant model - one communal garden with all the women participating... One communal set of barns and shops where the menfolk plied the family business and worked the livestock... And one common dinner table - All the women preparing together, and all of them sitting around that grand table in the dining room every night.

A very successful family, rich in wealth, materials, and love.

That is the 'utopia' that we have let go by. And it is a cryin shame.

Yes, yes we have. I am lucky, I saw the tail end of that. What we have sold out to and given up for in this modern society makes me weep.
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