Author Topic: Ocasio-Cortez prepares for war… on her own party  (Read 33432 times)

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Offline txradioguy

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Re: Ocasio-Cortez prepares for war… on her own party
« Reply #200 on: November 20, 2018, 11:23:15 pm »
It's no better in England.  I had a dear friend in my church who was a British war bride who made a good career for herself in banking.  She was always nostalgic about England.

 A few years after her husband died, she sold everything and moved back.  It wasn't a month before harsh reality and deep disappointment set in.

  Not only was her family not as great as she remembered but the health care she thought would be great was horrible.  She wrote me saying 'she'd made the biggest mistake of her life.'  It took her a year to return but the whole thing took a toll on her health.

2-3 years ago IIRC there was a big NHS scandal about hiding numbers of people who'd died from lack of care at one of the Hospitals in England. 

The VA and all the problems...backlogs of people waiting for care...hidden waiting lists and corruption should be all the reason we need not to nationalize health care for the entire country.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

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Offline Hoodat

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Re: Ocasio-Cortez prepares for war… on her own party
« Reply #201 on: November 20, 2018, 11:23:49 pm »
And further, restore the ability of non-profit charitable orgs to be in the business of health care. In my youth, churches owned all the hospitals except pitiable county hospitals... At the time, a churches' balance sheet was treated en-toto, with a bottom line providing whether or not they could maintain non-profit status.  Some time in the 70's that changed. Changes in law made it to where individual aspects of a charity were taken on their own merit - Since healthcare was a profitable sector, it caused churches to get out of hospitals and clinics, because they could no longer 'hide' the 'profit' by shifting it to feeding the poor or some such...

In a single sweep, the federal government gave healthcare to for-profit businesses, and greatly diminished the Church in all aspects of charity (by removing their money generating health systems) - Supercharging the 'need' for federal welfare and federal healthcare.

Back in the 60s when Medicaid was first proposed, the AMA fought it bitterly.  At the time, there wasn't a doctor in America who didn't give free service to the poor.  It was simply part of being a doctor - to take care of people, house calls and all.

Unfortunately, government won out.  And in an instant, doctors stopped giving out free service to the poor.  They stopped making house calls too.
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Re: Ocasio-Cortez prepares for war… on her own party
« Reply #202 on: November 20, 2018, 11:30:36 pm »
It seems noble to want all people to have access to basic healthcare regardless of their income level. Being okay with people dying because they don't have enough money seems...wrong. I think we can do better than that.

Yes... It SEEMS noble.

Think.

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Re: Ocasio-Cortez prepares for war… on her own party
« Reply #203 on: November 20, 2018, 11:42:58 pm »
We must be really freaking stupid if we can't figure out how to make this stuff work at least as well as it does in Europe. I happen to think our potential far exceeds theirs.

It doesn't work well in Europe... They come HERE for what they cannot get...
I invite you to see what you are selling, via a clip from Crowder, a Canadian, well familiar with that 'vaunted' system, so often hailed by liberals:

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Re: Ocasio-Cortez prepares for war… on her own party
« Reply #204 on: November 20, 2018, 11:53:04 pm »
Back in the 60s when Medicaid was first proposed, the AMA fought it bitterly.  At the time, there wasn't a doctor in America who didn't give free service to the poor.  It was simply part of being a doctor - to take care of people, house calls and all.

Unfortunately, government won out.  And in an instant, doctors stopped giving out free service to the poor.  They stopped making house calls too.

The only medical entity to fully and wholly write off my bill was St. Patricks in Missoula, at the time, at least, still a church hospital... Their take on it:

We're just going to write you off. When God gives you back your health, please remember that we did.

And I do.

Offline Dexter

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Re: Ocasio-Cortez prepares for war… on her own party
« Reply #205 on: November 21, 2018, 01:47:31 am »
It doesn't work well in Europe

Why does the European public disagree? Public approval of healthcare in Europe is far higher than in the states. In some places it has a 94% approval.
"I know one thing, that I know nothing."
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Re: Ocasio-Cortez prepares for war… on her own party
« Reply #206 on: November 21, 2018, 01:56:33 am »
Why does the European public disagree? Public approval of healthcare in Europe is far higher than in the states. In some places it has a 94% approval.

They don't know the difference. Ask those who do, like the friend of a friend I know in Wales, who literally came here, became indigent, and went on welfare to be treated for cancer that he could not be treated for in Europe. It would have killed him there, because the system would not treat him. They hung him out to die.

Offline Dexter

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Re: Ocasio-Cortez prepares for war… on her own party
« Reply #207 on: November 21, 2018, 01:58:54 am »
They don't know the difference. Ask those who do, like the friend of a friend I know in Wales, who literally came here, became indigent, and went on welfare to be treated for cancer that he could not be treated for in Europe. It would have killed him there, because the system would not treat him. They hung him out to die.

Why is public approval of our healthcare system so low compared to Europe?
"I know one thing, that I know nothing."
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Offline GrouchoTex

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Re: Ocasio-Cortez prepares for war… on her own party
« Reply #208 on: November 21, 2018, 02:09:25 am »
They don't know the difference.

True, Germany started in the late 1800's, and I figure the latest in Europe has  been around since the 70's, meaning European Adults born in in the 1950's and later know no any other way.

Offline GrouchoTex

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Re: Ocasio-Cortez prepares for war… on her own party
« Reply #209 on: November 21, 2018, 02:13:07 am »
Why is public approval of our healthcare system so low compared to Europe?

They have been told by our MSM and the left wing that the only hope is Government control over the healthcare system, and those who have a low approval believe this.
It's all they've heard since Hillary tried to start Hillarycare back when she was First Lady. That was over 20 years ago.

Offline Dexter

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Re: Ocasio-Cortez prepares for war… on her own party
« Reply #210 on: November 21, 2018, 02:15:39 am »
They have been told by our MSM and the left wing that the only hope is Government control over the healthcare system, and those who have a low approval believe this.
It's all they've heard since Hillary tried to start Hillarycare back when she was First Lady. That was over 20 years ago.

I think approval over there is way higher because their healthcare works a lot better for average people. American healthcare is only the best in the world if you're rich.
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Offline GrouchoTex

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Re: Ocasio-Cortez prepares for war… on her own party
« Reply #211 on: November 21, 2018, 02:22:40 am »
I think approval over there is way higher because their healthcare works a lot better for average people. American healthcare is only the best in the world if you're rich.

I disagree.
Only in rural areas is healthcare lacking, due to the expanse and proximity to the providers, which would also be an issue anywhere in the world, including Europe.
The suburbs are fine, and the inner cities are where most the major hospitals and medical centers are located.

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Re: Ocasio-Cortez prepares for war… on her own party
« Reply #212 on: November 21, 2018, 02:23:27 am »
Why is public approval of our healthcare system so low compared to Europe?

Because it SUCKS, especially since Obamacare. That does not mean that socialist heathcare is better.'Or that it has a more robust safety net. It does not.

True healthcare reform in the USA will not include socializing medicine. That WILL make it worse, not better.

Offline goodwithagun

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Re: Ocasio-Cortez prepares for war… on her own party
« Reply #213 on: November 21, 2018, 02:24:23 am »
Why does the European public disagree? Public approval of healthcare in Europe is far higher than in the states. In some places it has a 94% approval.

Listen up. I’m a 39 year old cancer patient that started her journey at 36. I have an amazing professional firefighter husband (read that as 24 hour+ shifts), and three kids 10 and under. My oldest is on the high functioning end of the spectrum with a near genius IQ and an eidetic memory. His little sisters are already testing into advanced classes in the private school we gladly pay for. My first bout at this landed us in $20K medical debt that we couldn’t write off. It ecrued over eight months, but in two calendar years. Now we start again down the same path and we’re discussing going to Harvard for my radiology diagnosis. That is where I got my previous diagnosis (AFTER 7 MONTHS) so it makes the most sense.

I’m against preexisting condition mandates and single payer. The only thing that will fix this problem is for all government entities, from the feds to the villages, to end health insurance requirements including HIPPA. That’s it. All costs will plummet making it possible for the average working American to pay OOP.
I stand with Roosgirl.

Offline Dexter

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Re: Ocasio-Cortez prepares for war… on her own party
« Reply #214 on: November 21, 2018, 02:29:35 am »
I disagree.
Only in rural areas is healthcare lacking, due to the expanse and proximity to the providers, which would also be an issue anywhere in the world, including Europe.
The suburbs are fine, and the inner cities are where most the major hospitals and medical centers are located.

I really don't think that enormous difference in approval can be chalked up to the things you've claimed.
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Re: Ocasio-Cortez prepares for war… on her own party
« Reply #215 on: November 21, 2018, 02:30:17 am »
I think approval over there is way higher because their healthcare works a lot better for average people. American healthcare is only the best in the world if you're rich.

That is an utter lie.  Total bullshit.
I lost EVERYTHING due to illness, and wound up in a wheelchair, on welfare.
I had as good of care on welfare disability as ever, with the exception of dental care and chiropractic (and other alt means).

Offline GrouchoTex

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Re: Ocasio-Cortez prepares for war… on her own party
« Reply #216 on: November 21, 2018, 02:30:24 am »
Listen up. I’m a 39 year old cancer patient that started her journey at 36. I have an amazing professional firefighter husband (read that as 24 hour+ shifts), and three kids 10 and under. My oldest is on the high functioning end of the spectrum with a near genius IQ and an eidetic memory. His little sisters are already testing into advanced classes in the private school we gladly pay for. My first bout at this landed us in $20K medical debt that we couldn’t write off. It ecrued over eight months, but in two calendar years. Now we start again down the same path and we’re discussing going to Harvard for my radiology diagnosis. That is where I got my previous diagnosis (AFTER 7 MONTHS) so it makes the most sense.

I’m against preexisting condition mandates and single payer. The only thing that will fix this problem is for all government entities, from the feds to the villages, to end health insurance requirements including HIPPA. That’s it. All costs will plummet making it possible for the average working American to pay OOP.

Thanks  @goodwithagun, and God bless you and your family.

Offline Dexter

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Re: Ocasio-Cortez prepares for war… on her own party
« Reply #217 on: November 21, 2018, 02:31:35 am »
Because it SUCKS, especially since Obamacare. That does not mean that socialist heathcare is better.'Or that it has a more robust safety net. It does not.

True healthcare reform in the USA will not include socializing medicine. That WILL make it worse, not better.

So we can at least agree that what they have is a lot better than what we have right now?
"I know one thing, that I know nothing."
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Offline Dexter

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Re: Ocasio-Cortez prepares for war… on her own party
« Reply #218 on: November 21, 2018, 02:32:24 am »
That is an utter lie.  Total bullshit.
I lost EVERYTHING due to illness, and wound up in a wheelchair, on welfare.
I had as good of care on welfare disability as ever, with the exception of dental care and chiropractic (and other alt means).

I think you would have been cared for in Europe without having to lose everything due to your illness.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2018, 02:33:04 am by Dexter »
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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Ocasio-Cortez prepares for war… on her own party
« Reply #219 on: November 21, 2018, 02:34:32 am »
I think approval over there is way higher because their healthcare works a lot better for average people. American healthcare is only the best in the world if you're rich.

Bullshit @Dexter

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Re: Ocasio-Cortez prepares for war… on her own party
« Reply #220 on: November 21, 2018, 02:35:02 am »
So we can at least agree that what they have is a lot better than what we have right now?

No, they absolutely do not... And I speak with authority wrt Canada - They come HERE for health. Often. Being 70 miles from the border, we get Canadian 'health vacationers' here a ton.

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Re: Ocasio-Cortez prepares for war… on her own party
« Reply #221 on: November 21, 2018, 02:36:01 am »
I think you would have been cared for in Europe without having to lose everything due to your illness.

That is absurd if that is the case.

Offline Dexter

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Re: Ocasio-Cortez prepares for war… on her own party
« Reply #222 on: November 21, 2018, 02:37:11 am »
That is absurd if that is the case.

I agree.
"I know one thing, that I know nothing."
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Offline GrouchoTex

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Re: Ocasio-Cortez prepares for war… on her own party
« Reply #223 on: November 21, 2018, 02:37:19 am »
I really don't think that enormous difference in approval can be chalked up to the things you've claimed.

I agree that the disapproval is real, but due to propaganda.
The government has screwed this up, even pre-Obama, which you've seen some things write about here, and every government attempt to fix it has made it even worse.
They don't want this for altruistic reasons, they want the power to control.
Healthcare is something everyone needs at one time or another and is roughly 1/6 of the economy.

Control the healthcare, and you can control everything from travel habits to diet.
Just claim this or that is unhealthy, and you can tax it, or threaten to withhold treatment to people involved in behaviors not sanctioned by the government.

« Last Edit: November 21, 2018, 02:16:39 pm by GrouchoTex »

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Re: Ocasio-Cortez prepares for war… on her own party
« Reply #224 on: November 21, 2018, 02:37:39 am »
I’m against preexisting condition mandates and single payer. The only thing that will fix this problem is for all government entities, from the feds to the villages, to end health insurance requirements including HIPPA. That’s it. All costs will plummet making it possible for the average working American to pay OOP.

RIGHT ON!