How much of your money should the government take?

[roamer_1]

Let me know when you think of even one.

I can think of thirty - That is not the point. The point is that what happens here is none of your business.

[Dexter]

I can think of thirty - That is not the point. The point is that what happens here is none of your business.

For the sake of discussion you won't tell me even one of your solutions?

[DCPatriot]

For the sake of discussion you won't tell me even one of your solutions?

The incredible Dr. Pol?   

[roamer_1]

For the sake of discussion you won't tell me even one of your solutions?

NO! It remains that you are IMPOSING at the point of a gun what I do with my kids.

That is none of your business. None at all. And the sooner you disabuse yourself of the notion, the sooner we might come to some sort of agreement.

The Constitution gives the federal government exactly NO authority in this issue. Why do you insist otherwise?

[Dexter]

NO!

I don't think you actually have a solution despite what you claim.

[roamer_1]

I don't think you actually have a solution despite what you claim.

Quit trying to shift the goalposts. What I think doesn't matter anyway. That is for the Montana Governor and the Montana legislature to decide.

What is on point is that it should have naught to do with you, and even less to do with the federal government.

[Dexter]

Quit trying to shift the goalposts. What I think doesn't matter anyway. That is for the Montana Governor and the Montana legislature to decide.

What is on point is that it should have naught to do with you, and even less to do with the federal government.

Public education isn't going anywhere, and states will never be given the autonomy you want as long as you and those that think like you are unwilling to budge on this. You're wasting your thought.

[Sanguine]

The world is a lot different now. You can't realistically make that comparison.



Is there nobody else in this thread that at least agrees that literacy rates in this country would go down if we removed public education? You wouldn't be able to mandate that children are educated without a public option. A lot of crappy parents would not take an interest in the education of their children. Children should not be punished for that and have their entire lives ruined by the fact that they missed vital opportunities.

The one reason you might not be able to make that comparison is because welfare has removed the need to succeed. 

[roamer_1]

Here’s how you do that and keep the fedgov out:   Each state decides and defines how THEY measure a successful education

@Axeslinger
That's right.

and then provides statistical evidence that they have met that goal.

That's not. Providing statistics to the federal government explicitly leaves the feds in charge.
The quality of the student can be readily assessed by the collegiate system and in the general success of the population at large. The state is certainly free to survey and complete its own internal statistics.

AND @roamer_1 concerns can be addressed thus:   those who wish to use homeschooling or ANY OTHER alternative means of educating their kids are free to do so with zero state intervention provided the children pass the same benchmark testing that the rest of the state kids pass.

That would be up to the state, as it should be. Education is certainly a big draw for families, so I would suppose the competition between the states would ensure excellence and a diverse choice.

[Sanguine]

If the mandate is unacceptable then me and a majority of the country will never budge on this, EVER.


Children shouldn't miss vital opportunity because of crappy parenting. Without a mandate and a public option a lot of bad parents would ruin the lives of their children. I simply will never get behind that.

I thought you were the one who thinks that people are basically good?  If so, wouldn't one of the most basic drives in life, that to procreate and protect the product of procreation, be in force here?  Seems like by that measure, almost every parent in the world would do their best to make sure Junior can become successful in this world.

[roamer_1]

Public education isn't going anywhere, and states will never be given the autonomy you want as long as you and those that think like you are unwilling to budge on this. You're wasting your thought.

I don't think so. Montana has told the feds to go screw plenty of times already, and can just as easy do it here too.

The point remains that the federal government is operating outside of its Constitutional aegis, and is promoting a failing education system. It will only continue to fail even more.

[Bigun]

What specifically do you think teachers are doing to indoctrinate children? They learn a lot. Our education system may not be the best in the world but people are definitely learning.

@Dexter

Unfortunately we have a perfect example right here before us.  You have never even heard the name John Dewey until now I'll bet. Have you?

[Dexter]

I thought you were the one who thinks that people are basically good?  If so, wouldn't one of the most basic drives in life, that to procreate and protect the product of procreation, be in force here?  Seems like by that measure, almost every parent in the world would do their best to make sure Junior can become successful in this world.

I think humanity is good, but some individuals are certainly not, and some parents are simply inept, not bad people. I want to protect the children of those people. I personally won't budge on this issue.

[roamer_1]

Public education isn't going anywhere, and states will never be given the autonomy you want as long as you and those that think like you are unwilling to budge on this. You're wasting your thought.

And btw, the states are not 'given' autonomy. It is theirs by right.

[Bigun]

And btw, the states are not 'given' autonomy. It is theirs by right.

He reveals his indoctrination more in every single post.

[Sanguine]

I think humanity is good, but some individuals are certainly not. I want to protect the children of those people. I personally won't budge on this issue.

Isn't humanity made of people? 

If you want to protect children figure out how to do it within legal confines.

[Dexter]

And btw, the states are not 'given' autonomy. It is theirs by right.

I simply live in the real world. The federal government controls education and they will never let go as long as you won't budge on this. You don't have practical solutions in my opinion. What you want is not going to happen.

[roamer_1]

He reveals his indoctrination more in every single post.

And ONLY the mighty federal government can properly ordain... *SMH*

It is the federal standard that leaves us with a 20% illiteracy rate, and a self-absorbed, poorly educated snowflake generation.

Just about anything could to better than that.

[Dexter]

Isn't humanity made of people? 

It's not an all or nothing thing. There is good and bad, but I think overall humanity is good.

[roamer_1]

I simply live in the real world. The federal government controls education and they will never let go as long as you won't budge on this. You don't have practical solutions in my opinion. What you want is not going to happen.

The practical solution is to take the failing education system and give it to the states. It is not the federal government's business, and never has been. The more things privatize and get closer to the people, the better they will work.

As I said your vaunted education system is failing badly, and leaving more than 20% of children behind. High school kids graduating as functional illiterates, for Pete's sake. Open your eyes to what you are defending.

[Bigun]

And ONLY the mighty federal government can properly ordain... *SMH*

It is the federal standard that leaves us with a 20% illiteracy rate, and a self-absorbed, poorly educated snowflake generation.

@roamer_1

Yep and all according to plan. They don't WANT educated citizens they want preprogramed lemmings!

[roamer_1]

@roamer_1

Yep and all according to plan. They don't WANT educated citizens they want preprogramed lemmings!

Exactly right.

[Bigun]

The practical solution is to take the failing education system and give it to the states. It is not the federal government's business, and never has been. The more things privatize and get closer to the people, the better they will work.

As I said your vaunted education system is failing badly, and leaving more than 20% of children behind. High school kids graduating as functional illiterates, for Pete's sake. Open your eyes to what you are defending.

I've said it before and will say it again. The absolute Worst mistake we ever made in this country was to allow the government to "educate" our children!

[Dexter]

And btw, the states are not 'given' autonomy. It is theirs by right.

It's simply reality that that right is not theirs right now, legally or not. You're not going to seize it back. You have to come to terms with the federal government.

[roamer_1]

It's simply reality that that right is not theirs right now, legally or not. You're not going to seize it back. You have to come to terms with the federal government.

Naw. This idiocy will stop. And we'll survive it. Because we still have enough self reliance out here to make it happen.