I've been confused recently, but I think I get it now...

[Dexter]

This isn't just about left vs right anymore. The authoritarians have declared war on the libertarians, and both sides have some of both, which is why everything is insane right now.

[Sanguine]

This isn't just about left vs right anymore. The authoritarians have declared war on the libertarians, and there are both in both parties, which is why everything is insane right now.

   You got the first part!

Now, the next step is who is who?  Which side is predominantly demanding authoritarianism?

[Dexter]

  You got the first part!

Now, the next step is who is who?  Which side is predominantly demanding authoritarianism?

The fact that I'm here and completely disillusioned with the left should make it clear. 

[Sanguine]

The fact that I'm here and completely disillusioned with the left should make it clear. 

I understand and I applaud that.  However, truth is the best antidote to the ills of society, so seeking after it is paramount.  Don't stop. 

[musiclady]

  You got the first part!

Now, the next step is who is who?  Which side is predominantly demanding authoritarianism?

The problem is that "our side" didn't used to demand fealty to authoritarianism, and now some of "us" are.

So your question is important.  Who IS who?  The left has always been and is increasingly Marxist, but now "our side" is wanting that to happen too.  (Again SOME.... not all).

[Sanguine]

The problem is that "our side" didn't used to demand fealty to authoritarianism, and now some of "us" are.

So your question is important.  Who IS who?  The left has always been and is increasingly Marxist, but now "our side" is wanting that to happen too.  (Again SOME.... not all).

Yes, that's why I said "predominantly".  I think it's up to us who identify as Republicans and/or conservatives to fix that; it's not up to those who have recently opened their eyes.

[skeeter]

The problem is that "our side" didn't used to demand fealty to authoritarianism, and now some of "us" are.

So your question is important.  Who IS who?  The left has always been and is increasingly Marxist, but now "our side" is wanting that to happen too.  (Again SOME.... not all).

Surely you're not comparing the authoritarianism of the left - the speech codes, use of activist courts, advocacy of laws governing behavior they find objectionable, all backed by the implicit threat of street violence - with anything Trump has seriously proposed or supporters' vigorous defense of his policies?

[XenaLee]

Yes, that's why I said "predominantly".  I think it's up to us who identify as Republicans and/or conservatives to fix that; it's not up to those who have recently opened their eyes.

Fix it.... how, exactly?   

[INVAR]

Surely you're not comparing the authoritarianism of the left - the speech codes, use of activist courts, advocacy of laws governing behavior they find objectionable, all backed by the implicit threat of street violence - with Trump supporters' vigorous defense their candidate and his policies?

I do.  I have read it posted and said to my face by Trump fanatics, the desire to impose same authoritarian garbage that the Democrat Left is engaged in.

They have no more respect for liberty than the Left does, and will impose the same totalitarian crap if they could, given their own words and statements.

[mystery-ak]

I'm confused too..why this thread is in Politics...

[skeeter]

I do.  I have read it posted and said to my face by Trump fanatics, the desire to impose same authoritarian garbage that the Democrat Left is engaged in.

They have no more respect for liberty than the Left does, and will impose the same totalitarian crap if they could, given their own words and statements.

I'm not talking about what some anonymous stooge posted to you on an internet forum. I'm talking about tangible authoritarian policies.

[Jazzhead]

Surely you're not comparing the authoritarianism of the left - the speech codes, use of activist courts, advocacy of laws governing behavior they find objectionable, all backed by the implicit threat of street violence - with anything Trump has seriously proposed or supporters' vigorous defense of his policies?

There's really no comparison.    The left advocates true authoritarianism,  and fealty to the gods of identity politics.    Trump has not governed as an authoritarian,  and has listened to constructive criticism (at least from those he has perceived to be loyal).   Trump's biggest flaw is that he has not clearly and forcefully distanced himself from a small segment of his base that (and I'll say this diplomatically) rejects Reagan's vision of America as a shining city.     

[Dexter]

I'm confused too..why this thread is in Politics...

Is this not a political discussion? Where should it go?

[Mod1]

Moving to Exclusive Content/Editorials, as this thread is not based on a published article or commentary.

[mystery-ak]

Is this not a political discussion? Where should it go?

It should go in General Discussion...Politics is reserved for everything happening on Cap Hill etc

[Sanguine]

Fix it.... how, exactly?   

By rejecting authoritarianism.  Maybe I'm not picking up what you're putting down?

[Mod1]

Because the thread essentially is the poster's own thoughts or thesis, mods determined it best belongs in our original content section of the forum.

[Dexter]

It should go in General Discussion...Politics is reserved for everything happening on Cap Hill etc

Sorry.

[XenaLee]

By rejecting authoritarianism.  Maybe I'm not picking up what you're putting down?

Lol....I'm asking how?  I reject authoritarianism.  You reject it.  Many, if not most of us, reject it.  How does that fix anything?  I'm serious.

[Sanguine]

Lol....I'm asking how?  I reject authoritarianism.  You reject it.  Many, if not most of us, reject it.  How does that fix anything?  I'm serious.

That is the big question, isn't it?  You and I are for low taxes, less government, secure borders, etc.  And, what good does that do in the big picture?

Well...we vote, and we vote for people who share at least some similar values.  We don't send funds to those who support the wrong stuff.  We don't attend events for bad guys.  We speak out against bad guys and for good guys.  We try to overcome the public school system and teach our children well.

Of course, in this superheated environment none of that is enough.  I honestly don't know what the next step should be.  I have some ideas.  I think we should pick a week and drive up to Washington D.C. and shut the city down.  No violence, no overheated rhetoric, just tell those "elites" in D.C. to do their Constitutionally limited jobs or go home.  It would scare the hell out of them. 

Do you have any ideas?  I'm open to hearing them.

[INVAR]

I'm not talking about what some anonymous stooge posted to you on an internet forum. I'm talking about tangible authoritarian policies.

Oh you mean like ObamaCare that the Republican Party has not only funded in full but refused to repeal after they were given total power? 

I find no difference between a party that has as an agenda to impose authoritarian policies, and a party that not only willfully looks the other way when it does, but funds those policies as well.

Today's factionalism doesn't do a damn thing to arrest or hinder authoritarianism, rather they just rearrange chairs on the deck but do the same thing.

[Sanguine]

Oh you mean like ObamaCare that the Republican Party has not only funded in full but refused to repeal after they were given total power? 

I find no difference between a party that has as an agenda to impose authoritarian policies, and a party that not only willfully looks the other way when it does, but funds those policies as well.

Today's factionalism doesn't do a damn thing to arrest or hinder authoritarianism, rather they just rearrange chairs on the deck but do the same thing.

@XenaLee, or, you can just give up and blare your virtue-signals constantly, repetitively and without stop.

[skeeter]

There's really no comparison.    The left advocates true authoritarianism,  and fealty to the gods of identity politics.    Trump has not governed as an authoritarian,  and has listened to constructive criticism (at least from those he has perceived to be loyal).   Trump's biggest flaw is that he has not clearly and forcefully distanced himself from a small segment of his base that (and I'll say this diplomatically) rejects Reagan's vision of America as a shining city.   

There's real irony in your opinion of Trump's main flaw, JH. Because the future of authoritarianism in the US depends very much upon an endless stream of needy, uneducated people from the third world as well as those otherwise comfortable with authoritarianism in the countries from which they are immigrating. A significant majority  have no tradition nor use of individual liberty beyond that which they need to fill their pockets.

With the abundance of evidence all around us I'm surprised you cannot see the cause and effect.

[XenaLee]

That is the big question, isn't it?  You and I are for low taxes, less government, secure borders, etc.  And, what good does that do in the big picture?

Well...we vote, and we vote for people who share at least some similar values.  We don't send funds to those who support the wrong stuff.  We don't attend events for bad guys.  We speak out against bad guys and for good guys.  We try to overcome the public school system and teach our children well.

Of course, in this superheated environment none of that is enough.  I honestly don't know what the next step should be.  I have some ideas.  I think we should pick a week and drive up to Washington D.C. and shut the city down.  No violence, no overheated rhetoric, just tell those "elites" in D.C. to do their Constitutionally limited jobs or go home.  It would scare the hell out of them. 

Do you have any ideas? I'm open to hearing them.

Yeah, basically... that's why I was asking "how to fix it".  The only thing I've tried is voting and that doesn't always work (it didn't keep the rats out in 2008/2012).  Your idea of showing up in DC sounds like another Tea Party event.  Only problem is, the rats just ignored it and would again.  I think we need to make shock sure that we don't nominate any squishes (like Romney, McCain, etc.) in the future... for one thing.  Those two clusterfk's alone got us eight years of Obamanation.  We have to nominate ONLY those that we're sure will uphold conservative ideas. 

That said, I would have never nominated Trump to uphold my conservative ideas... and yet... I believe he has done that better than any establishment wonks like Jeb Bush would have done.  So it's easier said than done.  Dunno.  Whatever that "fix" is.... we need to figure it out... and do it consistently from now on.  The future of the nation and our future depends upon it.

[truth_seeker]

The fact that I'm here and completely disillusioned with the left should make it clear. 

Disillusion with the Left has become, drives the Intellectual Dark Web, #walkaway etc.