Author Topic: I see that there's still tension between Trump Republicans and non-Trump Republicans.  (Read 8438 times)

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Offline Dexter

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I just want to say that I think the left is very vulnerable right now. Trump has exposed their insanity; the left has never been more unhinged. Even if you hate Trump I hope you see the value in what he has done to the left's state of mind. If you could all unite now I really think it would be disastrous to leftism in the states.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2018, 04:50:39 pm by Dexter »
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Offline Jazzhead

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I just want to say that I think the left is very vulnerable right now. Trump has exposed their insanity; the left has never been more unhinged. Even if you hate Trump I hope you see the value in what he has done to the left's state of mind. If you could all unite now I really think it would be disastrous to leftism in the states.

As a (generally speaking) non-Trump Republican,  I agree.  Solidarity is a virtue.  Especially when the other side's acting as a mob. 
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Offline austingirl

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I try to stay out of the anti-Trump fray on TBR. Cruz was my guy until he didn't get the nomination. I don't care for Trump's personality, but he is POTUS and has done some good things.
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Offline roamer_1

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I just want to say that I think the left is very vulnerable right now. Trump has exposed their insanity; the left has never been more unhinged. Even if you hate Trump I hope you see the value in what he has done to the left's state of mind. If you could all unite now I really think it would be disastrous to leftism in the states.

No, as a Conservative, I have no dog in this hunt. It has little to do with Tump, other than his liberalism. There is not a single Conservative principle being served, so there is little to cheer on either side. Democrat leftism vs, Republican leftism... There is little difference to me.

Offline INVAR

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If you could all unite now I really think it would be disastrous to leftism in the states.

Why would I unite with a mob that supports liberalism as long as their guy is the one doing it?

Trillion-dollar deficits as far as the future can see.  Single -payer Trumpcare being floated.  Expansion of the government to be all-powerful and intrusive.

Why would I ever 'unite' with that?  That is just Liberal/Leftism repackaged as populism and conservatism.  I want nothing to do with that.

Why would I unite with the rabid MAGA hat crowd whom have declared people like me an 'enemy of the people' to be destroyed 'when the time comes', because we dare criticize the Executive  and do not support him?

I no more will unite with the likes of ForeverTrump® than I will the Marxist Left.

They both despise the same core principles that maintain liberty and hold them in contempt along with the people who live by, practice and advocate them.

Tension will remain because we obviously do not share the same foundations or core beliefs any more.  One entity has wrapped them up into faith in Trump, and ours have remained steadfast in biblical morality and faith, which is despised equally by both the Marxist Left and the rabid MAGA crowd.

Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline Wingnut

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You don’t hand matches to an arsonist, and you don’t give power to an angry left-wing mob. Democrats have become too EXTREME and TOO DANGEROUS to govern.  [That's enough. -Mod2]
« Last Edit: October 19, 2018, 09:56:56 pm by Mod2 »
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Offline GrouchoTex

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I was pissed about Trump calling out Cruz, right after the nomination in Cleveland, still saying that JFK killer nonsense, with Mike Pence grinning like" What did I get myself into".
Seemed tacky and spiteful for a guy that just received the nomination a day earlier.

Still, now that they've patched things up, and things are going well, I'm happy, and quite willing to help defeat the left on election day.

That was never in question for me anyway.
I've always done that, even when the only choice left on the past ballots was a RINO.
RINO is still better than Socialist, although, sometimes its hard to tell.


Offline Dexter

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Tension will remain because we obviously do not share the same foundations or core beliefs any more.  One entity has wrapped them up into faith in Trump, and ours have remained steadfast in biblical morality and faith, which is despised equally by both the Marxist Left and the rabid MAGA crowd.

The religious right and the MAGA crowd can't afford to part ways; you'll all be defeated. I understand they're not your idea of conservative, but certainly Trump and somebody like Elizabeth Warren have quite a lot of differences.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2018, 05:28:28 pm by Dexter »
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Offline INVAR

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The religious right and the MAGA crowd can't afford to part ways; you'll all be defeated.

We are already politically defeated as far as Conservatism goes. Statism/Collectivism is now the status quo.  It's just being repackaged as either Democratic Socialism or Nationalist Populism/Conservatism.  Both are just different degrees of liberal statism upon trillions of dollars of deficit spending.

All we are doing now is arguing about how much or how little should be imposed.

As far as the 'religious right' and the MAGA crowd, they declared us enemies and traitors to be destroyed.

Notwithstanding the GOP Establishment leadership literally told us even before Trump, to either shut up, vote the way they tell us or get out of the party.  Including the statement that our religious principles and values are an 'embarrassment' to the party and cost them elections, openly agreeing that they wish we would just all 'go away'.

We granted their wish, and that was even before 2016.  The MAGA crowd just made that divide permanent.

I understand they're not your idea of conservative, but certainly Trump and somebody like Elizabeth Warren have quite a lot of differences.

I'm done playing the lesser of two evils game.  Statists and liberals are the same to me regardless of what letter they put after their name.

I will now only vote for Constitutional and principled Conservatives, preferably in a third party.

I do appreciate your effort to attempt some kind of reconciliation - but it's a couple years too late for that.  At least AFAIC.  The GOP and MAGA crowd saw to that and continue to this moment.  Many demonstrate that they hate us more than they hate the Left.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline Sanguine

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I try to stay out of the anti-Trump fray on TBR. Cruz was my guy until he didn't get the nomination. I don't care for Trump's personality, but he is POTUS and has done some good things.

Smart lady.

Offline GtHawk

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Sorry, I just see the point in your post. What exactly has Trump to do with voting for a Conservative candidate? Why exactly would you even roll voting for Conservatives into what you call Trump Republicans and non-Trump Republicans.................unless it was to stir the pot of contention on the board?
<p>
Wouldn't it have been more accurate and to the point if you had just posted about how we need to be united in voting for the best Conservative candidate without even bringing Trump into it?

Offline mountaineer

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Wouldn't it have been more accurate and to the point if you had just posted about how we need to be united in voting for the best Conservative candidate without even bringing Trump into it?
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Offline Cyber Liberty

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I try to stay out of the anti-Trump fray on TBR. Cruz was my guy until he didn't get the nomination. I don't care for Trump's personality, but he is POTUS and has done some good things.

That's where most Briefers are these days.  The only criticisms from either side is whether one is sufficiently in one camp or the other.  You know what they say about being "in the middle of the road?"  You get run over.  :shrug:
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Offline Cyber Liberty

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I just want to say that I think the left is very vulnerable right now. Trump has exposed their insanity; the left has never been more unhinged. Even if you hate Trump I hope you see the value in what he has done to the left's state of mind. If you could all unite now I really think it would be disastrous to leftism in the states.

Stick around a bit longer this time, @Dexter.  Those of us who refuse to belong to either camp could use your help and support....
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Offline Frank Cannon

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Quote
I see that there's still tension between Trump Republicans and non-Trump<NOPE>

There. Fixed it.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2018, 08:34:38 pm by Mod5 »

Offline GtHawk

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There. Fixed it.
Actually Frank I really don't consider myself part of the party of Rollovericans, I am a Conservative and whether or not I vote for anyone hasn't got a damn thing do with them having an R behind their name.

Offline skeeter

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I was pissed about Trump calling out Cruz, right after the nomination in Cleveland, still saying that JFK killer nonsense, with Mike Pence grinning like" What did I get myself into".
Seemed tacky and spiteful for a guy that just received the nomination a day earlier.

Still, now that they've patched things up, and things are going well, I'm happy, and quite willing to help defeat the left on election day.

That was never in question for me anyway.
I've always done that, even when the only choice left on the past ballots was a RINO.
RINO is still better than Socialist, although, sometimes its hard to tell.

I still get p*ssed when I remember the little high five (maybe it was a wink) Trump & Carson traded after Carson missed his debate introduction cue back during the primaries.

That was then, now with a few minor exceptions I'm fully on board with the president.

Offline Dexter

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Wouldn't it have been more accurate and to the point if you had just posted about how we need to be united in voting for the best Conservative candidate without even bringing Trump into it?

It's hard to have a conversation about unity without mention of Donald because he's the main reason for the current schism in the GOP. Donald Trump is the reason why Republicans have been infighting so much the last couple of years. The best way to heal that schism is to talk plainly about it and then figure out the best way to push forward, or at least that's my opinion. You're worried I'm stoking some kind of fire on this board? I don't know; maybe I am. Republicans need to figure this out, unless y'all really have just given up.
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Offline Dexter

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Stick around a bit longer this time, @Dexter.  Those of us who refuse to belong to either camp could use your help and support....

I'm thinking about sticking around for a bit. It can be difficult because I get invested in the conversations here and it tends to eat up a lot of my time, particularly when debating people like @musiclady.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2018, 09:56:23 pm by Dexter »
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Offline aligncare

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It's hard to have a conversation about unity without mention of Donald because he's the main reason for the current schism in the GOP. Donald Trump is the reason why Republicans have been infighting so much the last couple of years. The best way to heal that schism is to talk plainly about it and then figure out the best way to push forward, or at least that's my opinion. You're worried I'm stoking some kind of fire on this board? I don't know; maybe I am. Republicans need to figure this out, unless y'all really have just given up.

Excellent reasoning and rationale. You da bomb, dude!

 :thumbsup:

But, don’t let the people here who persist on being obstinate about President Trump color your attitude. Sometimes it’s hard for some to admit they were wrong from the very beginning about the man.

However, you are correct to hope for unity on the right in order to save America from the mobs of deranged democrats and NeverTrumpers.

Offline Axeslinger

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It's hard to have a conversation about unity without mention of Donald because he's the main reason for the current schism in the GOP. Donald Trump is the reason why Republicans have been infighting so much the last couple of years. The best way to heal that schism is to talk plainly about it and then figure out the best way to push forward, or at least that's my opinion. You're worried I'm stoking some kind of fire on this board? I don't know; maybe I am. Republicans need to figure this out, unless y'all really have just given up.

Ultimately it comes to this for both sides of this debate:
What are we saving?

IN GENERAL:

The Trumpeters believe that Trump is the last best hope to return America to its founding principles.
and
The NTs believe that ship has sailed.  The rot is so deep and so pervasive that the Ugly is only a matter of time.  AND MORE IMPORTANTLY, the demands for total acceptance to EVERYTHING trump does by his most ardent supporters only further illustrate the perception that America as we knew her is dead.

The Ugly is coming and Hell is riding with it.
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Offline mountaineer

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The Trumpeters believe that Trump is the last best hope to return America to its founding principles.
and
The NTs believe that ship has sailed.  The rot is so deep and so pervasive that the Ugly is only a matter of time.  AND MORE IMPORTANTLY, the demands for total acceptance to EVERYTHING trump does by his most ardent supporters only further illustrate the perception that America as we knew her is dead.
As a member of neither group, I believe in supporting and voting for the best, most conservative person I can to every single office, from school board to U.S. Senate. Realistically, I'm not sure that there's anything else I can do. Calling other people names on social media sure isn't accomplishing anything.
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Offline roamer_1

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Republicans need to figure this out, unless y'all really have just given up.

Two falsities are assumed:

1) That everyone s Republican
and
2) That the alternative to voting for the Big Rhinestone 'R' is 'giving up'.

Offline INVAR

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It's hard to have a conversation about unity without mention of Donald because he's the main reason for the current schism in the GOP.

For some of us, NO - Trump is not the reason we left the GOP.  Trump simply affirms that our decision to dump the feckless party and move on was a wise and timely choice.

In my case, the years leading up to the 2014 midterms and ultimately the 2016 election were the last straw.  The GOP proved they absolutely had zero intention to do anything they campaigned on except to hand Obama his agenda on a paid-for by taxpayer debt silver platter, give their base the middle finger, and adopt the Democrat agenda as their own to protect.  They demonstrated they can and will go to vicious war against an actual Conservative to push an Establishment statist (McDaniels/Cochran anyone?) and treat rabid Leftists as equals while performing kabuki 'hearings' into treason and criminality while doing absolutely nothing about it beyond theatrics.

The "You are 100% with us or 100% against us" meme during elections by both GOP party hacks and later by Trump's fanatics made the schism permanent AFAIC.

Donald Trump is the reason why Republicans have been infighting so much the last couple of years.

Most of it actually is less about Trump and more about principles that are regarded as losers and therefore disposable for political pragmatism's sake or insoluble and resolute without any willingness to compromise on surrendering them.  THAT is where the actual line in the sand and all the combat is actually centered.  That Trump's fans now ridicule foundational moral principles with the same ferocity and contempt that the Godless Left does, simply confirms for people like me that what now exists in the GOP under Trump, are people who can care less about Liberty and more about lockstep loyalty to party and president.  They want payback, retribution and revenge.  They want a mob of unified True Believers, or they will count anyone else as an enemy.   They would instill their own brand of tyranny if they could, and they have demonstrated the same disdain for political speech and opinions they disagree with as much as the Left has demonstrated.

The best way to heal that schism is to talk plainly about it and then figure out the best way to push forward, or at least that's my opinion. You're worried I'm stoking some kind of fire on this board? I don't know; maybe I am. Republicans need to figure this out, unless y'all really have just given up.

I've given up on the Republican Party after slaving for it for two decades plus.  They are hopelessly infiltrated with Democrats, corrupted and lost without any chance of redemption AFAIC.

My efforts, money and time are going to be spent elsewhere to support the cause that party has abandoned.

Any chance of getting along is going to lie in letting people be free to support whom they choose without being treated and labeled as an enemy of the people.

But I do not think that is going to happen when a whole bunch of people insist that the country is at stake and you are either 100% with them, or you are 100% an enemy.  As long as that intolerant position dominates the discourse here and elsewhere - there is no chance of 'healing' the schism.  It will be permanent.
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...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline Wingnut

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For some of us, NO -

.


Spoken like a true democrat.
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