Author Topic: Question about "large caliber bullets"?  (Read 3225 times)

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Offline LauraTXNM

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Question about "large caliber bullets"?
« on: September 21, 2018, 10:50:57 pm »
Hi, you all!  I'm reading about a very sad family murder of the Rhodens in Southern Ohio.  After two years, the preliminary autopsy reports have finally been released.

So eight family members were killed, most while sleeping by gunshot wounds to the head.  But one man was noted as being shot with large caliber bullets, which is different than all the other victims.  Does that mean anything to you all?  Would that be bullets used for hunting?  They pressed the gun against the back of his head and fired three times; wouldnt that destroy his skull?

Thanks for any help you all can provide!
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Offline Meldrew

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Re: Question about "large caliber bullets"?
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2018, 11:27:29 pm »
Does that mean anything to you all? 

Frankly no.  It's ultimately subjective. I am of the opinion that if the caliber begins with 4 or more, it is generally considered larger caliber. If the caliber begins with 3 (inc. 9mm) it's a medium caliber, if 2, it's a small caliber.  But that's my take on it, others may think differently. 

Quote
Would that be bullets used for hunting?

The bullet is just the projectile.  The propellant (powder) and the case that holds it is also important.  A small bullet going very fast is deadlier that a small bullet going slow.  Not that I want to get hit with any of them of course. 

Quote
which is different than all the other victims

The most significant info IMO.  2 guns involved.  That's not accidental. 

Hope that's some help. 

Online roamer_1

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Re: Question about "large caliber bullets"?
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2018, 11:47:17 pm »
Would that be bullets used for hunting? 

@LauraTXNM
I have nothing to add to @Meldrew except that you seem ignorant of form.
Yes a large sized round can be used for hunting, but so too can a small round...

The primary difference you seem to be unaware of, is that pistols generally are not used for hunting. Rifles (and shotguns) are. And rifle rounds generally have far more powder in the shell than pistols, regardless of caliber.

A 7mm Magnum is a full throated hunting rifle, with a smallish round (.283), and a 300WinMag is another, carrying a medium caliber, but both of them do far, far more damage than a .45 (large caliber) pistol.


Offline Elderberry

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Re: Question about "large caliber bullets"?
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2018, 12:35:52 am »
I saw a 460 Weatherby pistol in J. Henry Arms gun store, but I've never shot one.

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Offline LauraTXNM

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Re: Question about "large caliber bullets"?
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2018, 01:23:44 am »
Thanks, @Meldrew, @roamer_1, and @Elderberry!  You all know how ignorant I am about this subject ;).  There was definitely more than one shooter; this victim's father said the police had found two types of casings at the scene.  (Does that make sense?)  I just wondered if it sounded strange that one man was shot with "large caliber bullets". 

Also, do you all have any familiarity with the Ruger 3301?
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Disclaimer: I am a liberal, progressive, feminist, here because I like talking to you all.  We're all this together.

Online roamer_1

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Re: Question about "large caliber bullets"?
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2018, 01:31:05 am »
I saw a 460 Weatherby pistol in J. Henry Arms gun store, but I've never shot one.

I shot a 5-shot revolver in 45/70 government... Time off-target is a problem...
First there's all the time sitting there weeping and babbling uncontrollably...
Then you have to walk back a ways and look for where your arm went...

Offline Sanguine

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Re: Question about "large caliber bullets"?
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2018, 01:35:25 am »
@LauraTXNM, did they say what order they were shot in?

Offline Elderberry

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Re: Question about "large caliber bullets"?
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2018, 01:36:20 am »
Thanks, @Meldrew, @roamer_1, and @Elderberry!  You all know how ignorant I am about this subject ;).  There was definitely more than one shooter; this victim's father said the police had found two types of casings at the scene.  (Does that make sense?)  I just wondered if it sounded strange that one man was shot with "large caliber bullets". 

Also, do you all have any familiarity with the Ruger 3301?

No, I am not familiar with that model of Ruger. I have owned the Ruger Standard Auto and my favorite sidearm is the Ruger Blackhawk in 45Colt.

Back to the murders.  Eight people were all shot in the head, most while sleeping, with one man shot three times with a large caliber. 

That makes me think the man shot 3 times was the last one killed. I would think the first seven were killed with a silenced .22 so as not to wake the others.

Offline Elderberry

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Re: Question about "large caliber bullets"?
« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2018, 01:52:27 am »
And one more thing.  I do not regard murder as a "Shooting Sport".

Offline LauraTXNM

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Re: Question about "large caliber bullets"?
« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2018, 02:01:19 am »
@Sanguine @Elderberry  This is such a sad story, and they're really not any closer to solving it.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/09/20/brutal-killing-eight-members-ohio-family-was-systematically-executed-autopsy-shows.html

There were a father, a mother, his three teenaged-to-young-adult kids, his oldest son's fiancée, his cousin, and his brother.  There were three children left alive: two babies in bed with their parents and a toddler sleeping on the living room couch.  The murders took place in four separate trailers, one about 10 minutes from the others.  The father, according to the newly released autopsies, was shot first, nine times in his head, torso, and right arm.  The rest of the family may all have been asleep. 

They grew marijuana.  But Mike DeWine has a "laser focus" on another family whose son had a baby with the Rhodens' daughter.  They think it was a custody issue. ;(
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Offline Elderberry

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Re: Question about "large caliber bullets"?
« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2018, 02:07:08 am »
And why, pray tell,  did you think this article belongs in Shooting Sports?

Do you think all guns are inherently evil?

Offline LauraTXNM

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Re: Question about "large caliber bullets"?
« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2018, 03:39:17 am »
And why, pray tell,  did you think this article belongs in Shooting Sports?
B
Do you think all guns are inherently evil?

Ugh.  @Elderberry, I had a question about guns, and before people have directed me to this board when I had gun questions.  I am sorry if I wasted your time.

I have no problems with guns.  I'm going shooting next week.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2018, 03:41:50 am by LauraTXNM »
Micah 6:8  "...what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?"

Disclaimer: I am a liberal, progressive, feminist, here because I like talking to you all.  We're all this together.

Offline thackney

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Re: Question about "large caliber bullets"?
« Reply #12 on: September 23, 2018, 02:06:27 pm »
No, I am not familiar with that model of Ruger. I have owned the Ruger Standard Auto and my favorite sidearm is the Ruger Blackhawk in 45Colt.

Back to the murders.  Eight people were all shot in the head, most while sleeping, with one man shot three times with a large caliber. 

That makes me think the man shot 3 times was the last one killed. I would think the first seven were killed with a silenced .22 so as not to wake the others.

@Elderberry @LauraTXNM

Ruger 3301 is a specific version of Ruger SR9:



https://ruger.com/products/sr9/specSheets/3301.html

I carry a smaller Ruger, the LC9s.

- - - - - -

And no, I do not consider "large caliber" label by a reporter to be odd in a handgun.  I also note that a reporter might call anything larger than 9mm "large caliber".  I would agree it should start with bigger than a .38 for that description.  Lots of handguns bigger than a 38 that are small enough for conceal carry.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2018, 02:09:41 pm by thackney »
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Offline txradioguy

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Re: Question about "large caliber bullets"?
« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2018, 09:30:24 pm »

Also, do you all have any familiarity with the Ruger 3301?

Its more commonly known as the Ruger SR9.

It's a pretty decent 9mm. 

Why do you ask?
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Offline LauraTXNM

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Re: Question about "large caliber bullets"?
« Reply #14 on: September 27, 2018, 02:09:05 am »
Its more commonly known as the Ruger SR9.

It's a pretty decent 9mm. 

Why do you ask?

The number 3301 has come up repeatedly in the Rhoden case, as has the name Ruger (it's one of the grandchildren's names, as well as everything else).  I wondered if the 3301 was supposed to be super-special or something.

Again, I'm sorry if I offended anyone with my question.  This forum was recommended to me to ask questions about guns.
Micah 6:8  "...what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?"

Disclaimer: I am a liberal, progressive, feminist, here because I like talking to you all.  We're all this together.

Offline Sanguine

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Re: Question about "large caliber bullets"?
« Reply #15 on: September 27, 2018, 02:28:57 am »
The number 3301 has come up repeatedly in the Rhoden case, as has the name Ruger (it's one of the grandchildren's names, as well as everything else).  I wondered if the 3301 was supposed to be super-special or something.

Again, I'm sorry if I offended anyone with my question.  This forum was recommended to me to ask questions about guns.

The Second Amendment has been under such siege and for so long, that we are very sensitive to gun issues.

Offline LauraTXNM

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Re: Question about "large caliber bullets"?
« Reply #16 on: September 27, 2018, 03:00:14 am »
The Second Amendment has been under such siege and for so long, that we are very sensitive to gun issues.

I totally get that.  And I appreciate your all's patience answering my questions. 
Micah 6:8  "...what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?"

Disclaimer: I am a liberal, progressive, feminist, here because I like talking to you all.  We're all this together.

Offline txradioguy

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Re: Question about "large caliber bullets"?
« Reply #17 on: September 27, 2018, 02:08:30 pm »
The number 3301 has come up repeatedly in the Rhoden case, as has the name Ruger (it's one of the grandchildren's names, as well as everything else).  I wondered if the 3301 was supposed to be super-special or something.

Again, I'm sorry if I offended anyone with my question.  This forum was recommended to me to ask questions about guns.

IIRC the specific number designates various options or features on that version of the SR9.

For example 3301 might designate a pistol with a chrome slide...3302 might mean it comes with an external thumb safety etc etc
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Online roamer_1

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Re: Question about "large caliber bullets"?
« Reply #18 on: September 27, 2018, 02:51:54 pm »
The number 3301 has come up repeatedly in the Rhoden case, as has the name Ruger (it's one of the grandchildren's names, as well as everything else).  I wondered if the 3301 was supposed to be super-special or something.


Not an uncommon name in the West, @LauraTXNM ... In fact, one of my grandsons is named Ruger.

Offline LauraTXNM

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Re: Question about "large caliber bullets"?
« Reply #19 on: September 27, 2018, 05:25:41 pm »
@roamer_1 @txradioguy  I get it.  The mention of "3301" is just something that came up repeatedly but randomly.  It probably means nothing.  This case, because it has gone on so long and been very poorly handled (IMO) by the investigators and the BCI, has driven a lot of speculation and rumor.  It's brought out the fact that there is a huge amount of corruption and ineptitude in the area.  I think people there have been incredibly frustrated. 
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Offline To-Whose-Benefit?

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Re: Question about "large caliber bullets"?
« Reply #20 on: October 09, 2018, 02:53:55 am »
I saw a 460 Weatherby pistol in J. Henry Arms gun store, but I've never shot one.

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460 Weatherby is a 458 Winchester Magnum on steroids.

458 Winchester was purchased and issued to Game Depts in Africa in the 60s. It was reliable and, the Ammo was (comparatively) cheap.

They used them on problem lions, cape buffalo, and rogue elephants.

It became common to see them with black electrical tape and wire wrapping the pistol grip area.

Recoil cracked the stocks.

And the Weatherby is a hot rodded version of that 458 Win.

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Offline Elderberry

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Re: Question about "large caliber bullets"?
« Reply #21 on: October 09, 2018, 03:10:13 am »
Roy Weatherby had expected that the .378 Weatherby Magnum to make some headway in the African continent but believed that his cartridge was being bypassed for low velocity, big bore cartridges by professional hunters who he felt were resistant to change. Furthermore, new regulations prohibiting the hunting of heavy, thick skinned, dangerous game with sub-.40 caliber (10.16 mm) cartridges were being enacted in some African countries. These regulations would essentially ban the use of all previous Weatherby cartridges for the hunting of elephant, African Cape buffalo and rhinoceros.[5]

In response to these factors, Roy Weatherby believed that it was necessary to provide hunters a Weatherby cartridge that could be used to hunt African dangerous game in the countries which had legislated against hunting with sub-.40 caliber rifles. He accomplished this by necking up the .378 Weatherby Magnum case to accept a .458 caliber bullet. He named the new cartridge the .460 Weatherby Magnum. The first rifles for the .460 Weatherby Magnum were built on Brevex Magnum Mauser action.[5]

However, Roy Weatherby was not the first cartridge designer to neck up the .378 Weatherby Magnum to .45 caliber (11.6 mm). That distinction belongs to John Buhmiller, a gunsmith and hunter from Montana. Buhmiller named his cartridge the .45 Weatherby. He had success with the cartridge in Africa shooting Cape buffalo and rogue elephants in 1956, a year before Roy Weatherby began work on his own .45-caliber cartridge

The .460 Weatherby Magnum was the world's most powerful commercially available sporting cartridge for 29 years until the advent of the .700 Nitro Express by Holland & Holland, London, England, in 1988 developing approximately an average energy of 8,900 foot-pounds (12,100 J) of muzzle energy with a 1,000 gr (65 g) bullet at 2,000 ft/s (610 m/s). However handloaders can push the cartridge to generate as much as 15,000 foot-pounds (20,000 J) of energy in a modern bolt action, by using a 1,000 gr (65 g) bullet fired at 2,600 ft/s (792 m/s). However, doing so necessitates a rifle so heavy it is almost inoperable for hunting purposes. The .700 Nitro Express was itself eclipsed in only five years by the 1993 introduction by A-Square of the .577 Tyrannosaur. The .577 T-Rex develops approximately 10,180 foot-pounds force (13,800 J) with a velocity of 2,460 ft/s (750 m/s).

The .460 will launch a 500-grain (32 g) bullet at a chronographed velocity of 2,700 ft/s (820 m/s) from a 26-inch (660 mm) barrel, measuring 8,100 ftâ‹…lbf (11,000 J) of muzzle energy.[3] Prior to the arrival of the .460 Weatherby Magnum on the hunting scene, the .600 Nitro Express had been considered to be the most powerful cartridge in terms of energy.[4]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.460_Weatherby_Magnum