Author Topic: Osaka claims U.S. Open title after Serena meltdown  (Read 3621 times)

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Offline ABX

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Re: Osaka claims U.S. Open title after Serena meltdown
« Reply #50 on: September 10, 2018, 09:36:49 AM »
Can we talk about the other elephant in the room. How the American audience treated Osaka?  It was absolutely disgusting and shameful. They booed her and taunted her and brought her to tears. They should be ashamed.

Offline Sanguine

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Re: Osaka claims U.S. Open title after Serena meltdown
« Reply #51 on: September 10, 2018, 09:40:04 AM »
Can we talk about the other elephant in the room. How the American audience treated Osaka?  It was absolutely disgusting and shameful. They booed her and taunted her and brought her to tears. They should be ashamed.

Agreed, and they should.
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Offline mountaineer

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Re: Osaka claims U.S. Open title after Serena meltdown
« Reply #52 on: September 10, 2018, 09:44:49 AM »
Can we talk about the other elephant in the room. How the American audience treated Osaka?  It was absolutely disgusting and shameful. They booed her and taunted her and brought her to tears. They should be ashamed.
I agree. I watched that final set and was very annoyed by their behavior.
The current culture deviated radically from previous human experience, ruthlessly reducing each woman and man to mere political units to be manipulated, balkanizing them into communities according to their likes and dislikes, so everything from cars to candy bars could be more effectively marketed, robbing them of their privacy, denying them both a real community of diverse views and the possibility of personal evolution by censoring the world they saw through the Internet to make it conform to the preferred beliefs of their self-appointed betters. - Dean Koontz

Offline musiclady

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Re: Osaka claims U.S. Open title after Serena meltdown
« Reply #53 on: September 10, 2018, 09:53:16 AM »
Can we talk about the other elephant in the room. How the American audience treated Osaka?  It was absolutely disgusting and shameful. They booed her and taunted her and brought her to tears. They should be ashamed.

Completely agree.   It was a shameful day all around.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

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Offline mountaineer

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Re: Osaka claims U.S. Open title after Serena meltdown
« Reply #54 on: September 10, 2018, 09:54:13 AM »
The point I was making, and stand by, is that there is a standard of behavior for women in sports (and other competitive activities) that is not the same for men.  Men are allowed more aggression without criticism most of the time.  Women are not.
Some tennis organizations agree with you:
Quote
US Open 2018: Serena Williams' claims of sexism backed by WTA


Serena Williams' claims of sexism in the US Open final have been backed by the governing body of women's tennis.

WTA chief executive Steve Simon said the umpire showed Williams a different level of tolerance over Saturday's outbursts than if she had been a man.

She got a code violation for coaching, a penalty point for racquet abuse and a game penalty for calling the umpire a "thief" in the defeat by Naomi Osaka.

The American said it was "sexist" to have been penalised a game.

"The WTA believes that there should be no difference in the standards of tolerance provided to the emotions expressed by men versus women," Simon said in a statement.

"We do not believe that this was done last night."  ...

The head of the United States Tennis Association (USTA), which organises the US Open, said men "are badgering the umpire on the changeovers and nothing happens".

"We watch the guys do this all the time," USTA chief Katrina Adams said.

"There's no equality when it comes to what the men are doing to the chair umpires and what the women are doing, and I think there has to be some consistency across the board.

"I'm all about gender equality and I think when you look at that situation these are conversations that will be imposed in the next weeks. We have to treat each other fairly and the same."  ...
More at BBC News
The current culture deviated radically from previous human experience, ruthlessly reducing each woman and man to mere political units to be manipulated, balkanizing them into communities according to their likes and dislikes, so everything from cars to candy bars could be more effectively marketed, robbing them of their privacy, denying them both a real community of diverse views and the possibility of personal evolution by censoring the world they saw through the Internet to make it conform to the preferred beliefs of their self-appointed betters. - Dean Koontz

Offline Polly Ticks

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Re: Osaka claims U.S. Open title after Serena meltdown
« Reply #55 on: September 10, 2018, 10:02:36 AM »
Can we talk about the other elephant in the room. How the American audience treated Osaka?  It was absolutely disgusting and shameful. They booed her and taunted her and brought her to tears. They should be ashamed.

Absolutely agree.

Everyone was all caught up in the the Serena ComebackTM narrative. (Apparently, she's the only woman to ever have played tennis after having given birth. Ever.  In the history of the universe.)

They completely lost track of the fact that something very special was happening on the other side of the net.  If Osaka continues to play the kind of tennis she played over the past 2 weeks, she's going to be a superstar in her own right.
 
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Osaka claims U.S. Open title after Serena meltdown
« Reply #56 on: September 10, 2018, 10:05:11 AM »
I heard a commenter saying that Serena is the best tennis player right now, but she's definitely not a champion.

@Sanguine

I know nothing about tennis,and have no interest in learning,but that does seem to be the prevailing viewpoint.

Having said that,she let her ego and anger get in the way of winning that match,and the other player kept her cool and stayed focused on the game. A pro can get away with that when playing average players,but not when playing against competitors that genuine contenders. It was her match to lose,and she lost it.
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Offline Sanguine

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Re: Osaka claims U.S. Open title after Serena meltdown
« Reply #57 on: September 10, 2018, 10:06:59 AM »
@Sanguine

I know nothing about tennis,and have no interest in learning,but that does seem to be the prevailing viewpoint.

Having said that,she let her ego and anger get in the way of winning that match,and the other player kept her cool and stayed focused on the game. A pro can get away with that when playing average players,but not when playing against competitors that genuine contenders. It was her match to lose,and she lost it.

Well said, Pete.
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Offline mountaineer

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Re: Osaka claims U.S. Open title after Serena meltdown
« Reply #58 on: September 10, 2018, 12:28:10 PM »
As for the sexism charge that umps don't punish male players for equally bad behavior, I say so what?

She sounded like a child insisting that because her brother got away with painting the cat or jumping off the roof, it wasn't fair to punish me for doing it. Two wrongs don't make a right, as Mother used to say!  :laugh:
The current culture deviated radically from previous human experience, ruthlessly reducing each woman and man to mere political units to be manipulated, balkanizing them into communities according to their likes and dislikes, so everything from cars to candy bars could be more effectively marketed, robbing them of their privacy, denying them both a real community of diverse views and the possibility of personal evolution by censoring the world they saw through the Internet to make it conform to the preferred beliefs of their self-appointed betters. - Dean Koontz

Offline Polly Ticks

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Re: Osaka claims U.S. Open title after Serena meltdown
« Reply #59 on: September 10, 2018, 01:19:53 PM »
As for the sexism charge that umps don't punish male players for equally bad behavior, I say so what?

She sounded like a child insisting that because her brother got away with painting the cat or jumping off the roof, it wasn't fair to punish me for doing it. Two wrongs don't make a right, as Mother used to say!  :laugh:

"Life is not fair, and then you die" is another regular adage around our house. 
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Offline musiclady

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Re: Osaka claims U.S. Open title after Serena meltdown
« Reply #60 on: September 10, 2018, 01:30:02 PM »
As for the sexism charge that umps don't punish male players for equally bad behavior, I say so what?

She sounded like a child insisting that because her brother got away with painting the cat or jumping off the roof, it wasn't fair to punish me for doing it. Two wrongs don't make a right, as Mother used to say!  :laugh:

Mild disagreement with you here.  There needs to be an even standard for both male and female competitors.  (Big picture, not necessarily what was done to penalize Serena).

Even though I totally agree that life isn't "fair," when meting out punishments specifically for behavior, there needs to be a set standard that doesn't change based on your gender.  IOW, "boys will be boys and can behave badly because they're boys" should not be the standard for behavior. (Again, not referring to this specific case, but to standards in general, which still don't allow for competitive, aggressive females).
Character still matters.  It always matters.

May 3, 2016 - the day the Republican party left ME.  I am now without a Party, and quite possibly without a country.  May God have mercy!

Offline mountaineer

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Re: Osaka claims U.S. Open title after Serena meltdown
« Reply #61 on: September 10, 2018, 01:50:33 PM »
Mild disagreement with you here.  There needs to be an even standard for both male and female competitors.  (Big picture, not necessarily what was done to penalize Serena).

Even though I totally agree that life isn't "fair," when meting out punishments specifically for behavior, there needs to be a set standard that doesn't change based on your gender.  IOW, "boys will be boys and can behave badly because they're boys" should not be the standard for behavior. (Again, not referring to this specific case, but to standards in general, which still don't allow for competitive, aggressive females).
I generally agree with you, except each instance must be evaluated individually, and each ump has his/her own limits. If a male player had 1) had his coach cheat by flashing signals; 2) slammed and broken his racket; and 3) called the ump a "thief," then he certainly should have faced the same one game penalty.

The bottom line is that the loss of that one game didn't lose Serena the match. She was losing the entire day. Naomi was whupping her and probably (almost certainly) would have won the match anyway.
The current culture deviated radically from previous human experience, ruthlessly reducing each woman and man to mere political units to be manipulated, balkanizing them into communities according to their likes and dislikes, so everything from cars to candy bars could be more effectively marketed, robbing them of their privacy, denying them both a real community of diverse views and the possibility of personal evolution by censoring the world they saw through the Internet to make it conform to the preferred beliefs of their self-appointed betters. - Dean Koontz

Offline skeeter

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Re: Osaka claims U.S. Open title after Serena meltdown
« Reply #62 on: September 10, 2018, 02:01:18 PM »
Mild disagreement with you here.  There needs to be an even standard for both male and female competitors.  (Big picture, not necessarily what was done to penalize Serena).

Even though I totally agree that life isn't "fair," when meting out punishments specifically for behavior, there needs to be a set standard that doesn't change based on your gender.  IOW, "boys will be boys and can behave badly because they're boys" should not be the standard for behavior. (Again, not referring to this specific case, but to standards in general, which still don't allow for competitive, aggressive females).

The last bad boy tennis players I can remember are Jimmy Conners & John McEnroe, and they were always getting penalized points for their behavior.

Is there any guy playing today that has the reputation Williams has for pitching fits?

Offline dfwgator

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Re: Osaka claims U.S. Open title after Serena meltdown
« Reply #63 on: September 10, 2018, 02:09:09 PM »
The last bad boy tennis players I can remember are Jimmy Conners & John McEnroe, and they were always getting penalized points for their behavior.

 

Compared to Ilie Nastase, Connors and McEnroe were choirboys.

Offline musiclady

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Re: Osaka claims U.S. Open title after Serena meltdown
« Reply #64 on: September 10, 2018, 02:39:42 PM »
I generally agree with you, except each instance must be evaluated individually, and each ump has his/her own limits. If a male player had 1) had his coach cheat by flashing signals; 2) slammed and broken his racket; and 3) called the ump a "thief," then he certainly should have faced the same one game penalty.

The bottom line is that the loss of that one game didn't lose Serena the match. She was losing the entire day. Naomi was whupping her and probably (almost certainly) would have won the match anyway.

No disagreement at all here.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

May 3, 2016 - the day the Republican party left ME.  I am now without a Party, and quite possibly without a country.  May God have mercy!

Offline musiclady

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Re: Osaka claims U.S. Open title after Serena meltdown
« Reply #65 on: September 10, 2018, 02:40:03 PM »
The last bad boy tennis players I can remember are Jimmy Conners & John McEnroe, and they were always getting penalized points for their behavior.

Is there any guy playing today that has the reputation Williams has for pitching fits?

Nope.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

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Offline dfwgator

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Re: Osaka claims U.S. Open title after Serena meltdown
« Reply #66 on: September 10, 2018, 03:18:47 PM »
Nope.
I note though that back when there were bad boys in tennis, that's when people watched tennis.  You have players you liked and those you hated, and you watched.

Now,  the players today have no personality, and there's relatively little interest in tennis today as there was back then.

Offline mountaineer

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Re: Osaka claims U.S. Open title after Serena meltdown
« Reply #67 on: September 10, 2018, 03:21:54 PM »
I used to watch Bjorn Borg. The story is that when he was a child playing tennis, he once threw a big tantrum a la Serena, Conners or McEnroe. His parents took away his racket and told him never ever to act like that again. And he didn't. He learned his lesson.

We still watched Sampras, Agassi, Evert, et al., back in the day. The only reason I don't watch more tennis is that I've kind of lost interest in it as I became more interested in other things. But a player's bad behavior never was a reason to follow him or her, at least for me.
The current culture deviated radically from previous human experience, ruthlessly reducing each woman and man to mere political units to be manipulated, balkanizing them into communities according to their likes and dislikes, so everything from cars to candy bars could be more effectively marketed, robbing them of their privacy, denying them both a real community of diverse views and the possibility of personal evolution by censoring the world they saw through the Internet to make it conform to the preferred beliefs of their self-appointed betters. - Dean Koontz

Offline The Ghost

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Re: Osaka claims U.S. Open title after Serena meltdown
« Reply #68 on: September 10, 2018, 03:47:43 PM »
I don't watch any sport where the players scream and grunt on every return volley like they are dropping a loaf after long night binging on Taco Bell.
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Offline Polly Ticks

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Re: Osaka claims U.S. Open title after Serena meltdown
« Reply #69 on: September 10, 2018, 04:33:31 PM »
I don't watch any sport where the players scream and grunt on every return volley like they are dropping a loaf after long night binging on Taco Bell.

It does get annoying, particularly the women's shrieks.

I used to like to listen to Gustavo Kuerten, though.  His vocalizations were very musical; it almost sounded like singing. 
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Offline Polly Ticks

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« Last Edit: September 10, 2018, 08:44:30 PM by Polly Ticks »
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Offline DCPatriot

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Re: Osaka claims U.S. Open title after Serena meltdown
« Reply #72 on: September 10, 2018, 08:59:33 PM »
Serena deserved to lose. She played poorly and behaved boorishly.

Offline goatprairie

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Re: Osaka claims U.S. Open title after Serena meltdown
« Reply #73 on: September 13, 2018, 12:50:03 AM »
I note though that back when there were bad boys in tennis, that's when people watched tennis.  You have splayers you liked and those you hated, and you watched.

Now,  the players today have no personality, and there's relatively little interest in tennis today as there was back then.
I disliked both Connors and McEnroe intensely and rejoiced when they got beat. They set a poor example for American athletes.
One of my greatest joys in watching athletic  competitions was when Arthur Ashe beat Connors at Wimbledon in '75.  Ashe was a gentleman and the epitome of what an American athlete should be like.  Connors was a egotistical brat who didn't know how to act professionally.
Ditto for McEnroe.
Both Connors and McEnroe were great players, but I don't care. Character counts more for me than just winning.


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