Author Topic: Federal deficit soars 32 percent to $895B  (Read 4975 times)

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Online Chosen Daughter

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Re: Federal deficit soars 32 percent to $895B
« Reply #25 on: September 12, 2018, 12:46:46 AM »
Wait, the numbers have gone up since post #1.  I just wanted to make sure that we have accurate numbers real time.

http://www.usdebtclock.org/
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Profound statement.  What if we believed in our Constitution and Bill of Rights?  To believe that every man and woman is created equal?  That the Almighty God created!  That Americans should be judged by their character not their skin color.  Why do we still judge people by the color of their skin?  Why do we have Affirmative Action?  Why do employers discriminate by race?

Offline Hoodat

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Re: Federal deficit soars 32 percent to $895B
« Reply #26 on: September 12, 2018, 12:52:41 AM »
That is mumbo jumbo garbage.

Maybe to someone who doesn't understand the study of scarcity.


Interest is almost zero.

That is typically the case when the government pays its bills by printing fresh money.  (See:  Weimer Republic)


We are as close to full employment then I can ever remember.

As is North Korea.


Inflation has been going on forever (the Fed actually likes it).

Of course the Fed likes it.  If you were in debt for $20 trillion, and the currency lost 90% of its value because of inflation, then your debt effectively shrinks down to $2 trillion in real dollars.  Meanwhile, the people holding those T-bills just saw their investment lose 90% of its value.  Inflation enabled the government to steal $18 trillion in net worth from the bond holders, and they were able to do it without a tax increase.
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Online InHeavenThereIsNoBeer

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Re: Federal deficit soars 32 percent to $895B
« Reply #27 on: September 12, 2018, 12:58:05 AM »
Maybe to someone who doesn't understand the study of scarcity.


That is typically the case when the government pays its bills by printing fresh money.  (See:  Weimer Republic)


As is North Korea.


Of course the Fed likes it.  If you were in debt for $20 trillion, and the currency lost 90% of its value because of inflation, then your debt effectively shrinks down to $2 trillion in real dollars.  Meanwhile, the people holding those T-bills just saw their investment lose 90% of its value.  Inflation enabled the government to steal $18 trillion in net worth from the bond holders, and they were able to do it without a tax increase.

And if you choose to store your wealth in something they aren't deflating the value of, they hit you with capital "gains" taxes.
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Offline DB

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Re: Federal deficit soars 32 percent to $895B
« Reply #28 on: September 12, 2018, 01:02:06 AM »
That is mumbo jumbo garbage. Interest is almost zero. We are as close to full employment then I can ever remember. Inflation has been going on forever (the Fed actually likes it). The Rats have been offering the moon for generations yet there is a Repub in the WH.

Party on Frank. Hell, demand your guy doubles, triples the amount of borrowed/printed money... Free shit for everyone... It will all work out just fine...

Or not...

Offline DB

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Re: Federal deficit soars 32 percent to $895B
« Reply #29 on: September 12, 2018, 01:06:09 AM »
Maybe to someone who doesn't understand the study of scarcity.


That is typically the case when the government pays its bills by printing fresh money.  (See:  Weimer Republic)


As is North Korea.


Of course the Fed likes it.  If you were in debt for $20 trillion, and the currency lost 90% of its value because of inflation, then your debt effectively shrinks down to $2 trillion in real dollars.  Meanwhile, the people holding those T-bills just saw their investment lose 90% of its value.  Inflation enabled the government to steal $18 trillion in net worth from the bond holders, and they were able to do it without a tax increase.

It also moves everyone up in the progressive tax brackets which is also a win for government. An ever increasing share of working peoples incomes.

Your standard of living goes down as you earn "more money"... The "more" is less in real value.

Offline Once-Ler

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Re: Federal deficit soars 32 percent to $895B
« Reply #30 on: September 12, 2018, 01:35:46 AM »
  • They create a drag on the economy by siphoning off investment capital that would otherwise be used to start, grow, and expand businesses.
  • They create a drain on future budgets by adding the expense of bond payoff plus interest.
  • They empower the Democrat Party by providing a means to offer everything without actually having to pay for it.
  • They raise interest rates for consumers who now have to compete with government for loan dollars
  • And with our current policy of monetizing the debt, every American is faced with a new tax (i.e. inflation) that was never passed by Congress, yet steals the value out of every dollar you earn.

Really good post, but the one thing that I see as a weak point is the first point.  New start ups are up and existing business appears to be expanding.  We could argue that the economy should be doing better after "We enacted the biggest tax cuts and reforms in American history," but all the polls indicate American's think the economy is doing great and all the polls give President Trump more credit than Obama for it.  Sometimes even a majority. 

Even though the economy is doing well the polls all indicate people don't like, and don't trust President Trump.  A sizable majority says we are on the wrong path despite agreement that the economy, if not perfect, at least is better than under the Kenyan.  Since many people and businesses are benefiting from the tax cuts and Trump's increasingly quantifiable reduction of Obama enacted government regulation, I think arguing the economy is counter productive.

In 1996 the GOP bet against the economy and lost.  TOS compiled a list of 500 unexplained White House linked homicides and accidental deaths.  The rapist covered up the murders of Randy Weaver's son and dog, and AG Reno burned Christian children.   But in 1996 I knew war hero Bob Dole was a joke to my lessors and the rapist would come back for another spit on the Constitution.

We can't win as the debt panic freaks.  We have to figure out why a complete scumbag, with a lot of bad ideas, a bad memory, and limited speaking skills is so hated by so many voters, so we can prepare for his impeachment in a logical manner and plan for it.
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Offline DB

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Re: Federal deficit soars 32 percent to $895B
« Reply #31 on: September 12, 2018, 01:39:31 AM »
Really good post, but the one thing that I see as a weak point is the first point.  New start ups are up and existing business appears to be expanding.  We could argue that the economy should be doing better after "We enacted the biggest tax cuts and reforms in American history," but all the polls indicate American's think the economy is doing great and all the polls give President Trump more credit than Obama for it.  Sometimes even a majority. 

Even though the economy is doing well the polls all indicate people don't like, and don't trust President Trump.  A sizable majority says we are on the wrong path despite agreement that the economy, if not perfect, at least is better than under the Kenyan.  Since many people and businesses are benefiting from the tax cuts and Trump's increasingly quantifiable reduction of Obama enacted government regulation, I think arguing the economy is counter productive.

In 1996 the GOP bet against the economy and lost.  TOS compiled a list of 500 unexplained White House linked homicides and accidental deaths.  The rapist covered up the murders of Randy Weaver's son and dog, and AG Reno burned Christian children.   But in 1996 I knew war hero Bob Dole was a joke to my lessors and the rapist would come back for another spit on the Constitution.

We can't win as the debt panic freaks.  We have to figure out why a complete scumbag, with a lot of bad ideas, a bad memory, and limited speaking skills is so hated by so many voters, so we can prepare for his impeachment in a logical manner and plan for it.

It is temporary. The spending can't continue at these levels. It is easy to party when the credit card has no apparent limits. But the limit will be found.

Offline INVAR

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Re: Federal deficit soars 32 percent to $895B
« Reply #32 on: September 12, 2018, 01:59:57 AM »
It is temporary. The spending can't continue at these levels. It is easy to party when the credit card has no apparent limits. But the limit will be found.

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Offline LegalAmerican

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Re: Federal deficit soars 32 percent to $895B
« Reply #33 on: September 12, 2018, 02:10:58 AM »
Dear Lord, so much disinformation by posters.  8 years  of Obama, & some said give him time, after 4 years! Now about 18 months & all I read is bitchen.  in fact things are doing much better, HE wants to take credit! 

None of you seem informed.

https://youtu.be/2n720int26s

Online catfish1957

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Re: Federal deficit soars 32 percent to $895B
« Reply #34 on: September 12, 2018, 02:27:49 AM »
Dear Lord, so much disinformation by posters.  8 years  of Obama, & some said give him time, after 4 years! Now about 18 months & all I read is bitchen.  in fact things are doing much better, HE wants to take credit! 

None of you seem informed.

https://youtu.be/2n720int26s

You and Frank Cannon will enjoy your 8% increase in your portfolios while in a 10% inflationary economy.

Jimmuh Carter uh.......Trump math will work out for you just fine for you.
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Online InHeavenThereIsNoBeer

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Re: Federal deficit soars 32 percent to $895B
« Reply #35 on: September 12, 2018, 03:00:01 AM »
Really good post, but the one thing that I see as a weak point is the first point.  New start ups are up and existing business appears to be expanding.  We could argue that the economy should be doing better after "We enacted the biggest tax cuts and reforms in American history," but all the polls indicate American's think the economy is doing great and all the polls give President Trump more credit than Obama for it.  Sometimes even a majority. 

Even though the economy is doing well the polls all indicate people don't like, and don't trust President Trump.  A sizable majority says we are on the wrong path despite agreement that the economy, if not perfect, at least is better than under the Kenyan.  Since many people and businesses are benefiting from the tax cuts and Trump's increasingly quantifiable reduction of Obama enacted government regulation, I think arguing the economy is counter productive.

In 1996 the GOP bet against the economy and lost.  TOS compiled a list of 500 unexplained White House linked homicides and accidental deaths.  The rapist covered up the murders of Randy Weaver's son and dog, and AG Reno burned Christian children.   But in 1996 I knew war hero Bob Dole was a joke to my lessors and the rapist would come back for another spit on the Constitution.

We can't win as the debt panic freaks.  We have to figure out why a complete scumbag, with a lot of bad ideas, a bad memory, and limited speaking skills is so hated by so many voters, so we can prepare for his impeachment in a logical manner and plan for it.

Point One (and really Four as well, they are intertwined) is known to economists as "crowding out".  The idea is that there is a certain amount of money willing to be lent out by investors at given rates.  Any amount the government borrows to finance deficit spending is money that investors won't loan to businesses to invest in capital to grow the economy.  As economic theories go, it's a pretty sound one, IMO.

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Offline Concerned

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Re: Federal deficit soars 32 percent to $895B
« Reply #36 on: September 12, 2018, 08:29:18 AM »
Increasing deficits were bad and harmful under Obama yet they’re OK when they're done under your cult leader.  The hypocrisy never ceases to amaze me.
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Offline LMAO

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Re: Federal deficit soars 32 percent to $895B
« Reply #37 on: September 12, 2018, 08:56:13 AM »
Increasing deficits were bad and harmful under Obama yet they’re OK when they're done under your cult leader.  The hypocrisy never ceases to amaze me.

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Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: Federal deficit soars 32 percent to $895B
« Reply #38 on: September 12, 2018, 10:01:20 AM »
http://thehill.com/policy/finance/406040-federal-deficit-soars-32-percent-to-895b

Trump deficits are the absolute best, most luxurious, deficits.  #MAGA
boaring into the details it appears that

The largest increases were in the following categories:

In total, spending for the three largest mandatory programs increased by 4 percent:
Outlays for Social Security benefits rose by $39 billion (or 5 percent), because of increases both in the number of beneficiaries and in the average benefit payment.
Medicare spending increased by $22 billion (or 4 percent) because of increases both in the number of beneficiaries and in the amount and cost of services. The increase in spending was partly the result of an additional reconciliation payment made to Medicare Advantage plans to account for unanticipated spending increases in the current calendar year.
Medicaid outlays rose by $13 billion (or 4 percent), in part because more new enrollees were added through expansions of coverage authorized by the Affordable Care Act.
Outlays for net interest on the public debt increased by $55 billion (or 19 percent), partly because of a higher rate of inflation. To account for inflation, the Treasury Department adjusts the principal of its inflation-protected securities each month by using the change in the consumer price index for all urban consumers that was recorded two months earlier. That adjustment was $34 billion in the first 11 months of fiscal year 2017 but $60 billion so far in the current fiscal year. The remaining increase reflects higher interest rates and larger debt in the first 11 months of 2018.
Spending for military programs of the Department of Defense rose by $33 billion (or 6 percent).
The government received $20 billion less in total payments from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, resulting in higher outlays (included in “Other” in the table below and revised downward from last month’s estimate of $22 billion to reflect year-to-date net transactions).
Outlays of the Department of Homeland Security (included in “Other” below), increased by $21 billion (or 48 percent), largely because of activities related to disaster relief.
In contrast, outlays for the Department of Education (included in “Other” below) fell by $43 billion (or 43 percent) because the department made a downward revision of $9 billion to the estimated net subsidy costs of loans and loan guarantees issued in prior years—a change very different from last year’s $39 billion upward revision. If the effects of those revisions were excluded, outlays for the department in the first 11 months of the fiscal year would have risen by $5 billion (or 8 percent).


so rising interest rates on accumulated debt, which was almost all caused by those who preceded Trump, was single highest added cost.

please tell us how Trump was responsible for that, as well as the 4% increases to ss, medicare and medicaid.
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Offline Concerned

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Re: Federal deficit soars 32 percent to $895B
« Reply #39 on: September 12, 2018, 10:13:57 AM »
boaring into the details it appears that

The largest increases were in the following categories:

In total, spending for the three largest mandatory programs increased by 4 percent:
Outlays for Social Security benefits rose by $39 billion (or 5 percent), because of increases both in the number of beneficiaries and in the average benefit payment.
Medicare spending increased by $22 billion (or 4 percent) because of increases both in the number of beneficiaries and in the amount and cost of services. The increase in spending was partly the result of an additional reconciliation payment made to Medicare Advantage plans to account for unanticipated spending increases in the current calendar year.
Medicaid outlays rose by $13 billion (or 4 percent), in part because more new enrollees were added through expansions of coverage authorized by the Affordable Care Act.
Outlays for net interest on the public debt increased by $55 billion (or 19 percent), partly because of a higher rate of inflation. To account for inflation, the Treasury Department adjusts the principal of its inflation-protected securities each month by using the change in the consumer price index for all urban consumers that was recorded two months earlier. That adjustment was $34 billion in the first 11 months of fiscal year 2017 but $60 billion so far in the current fiscal year. The remaining increase reflects higher interest rates and larger debt in the first 11 months of 2018.
Spending for military programs of the Department of Defense rose by $33 billion (or 6 percent).
The government received $20 billion less in total payments from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, resulting in higher outlays (included in “Other” in the table below and revised downward from last month’s estimate of $22 billion to reflect year-to-date net transactions).
Outlays of the Department of Homeland Security (included in “Other” below), increased by $21 billion (or 48 percent), largely because of activities related to disaster relief.
In contrast, outlays for the Department of Education (included in “Other” below) fell by $43 billion (or 43 percent) because the department made a downward revision of $9 billion to the estimated net subsidy costs of loans and loan guarantees issued in prior years—a change very different from last year’s $39 billion upward revision. If the effects of those revisions were excluded, outlays for the department in the first 11 months of the fiscal year would have risen by $5 billion (or 8 percent).


so rising interest rates on accumulated debt, which was almost all caused by those who preceded Trump, was single highest added cost.

please tell us how Trump was responsible for that, as well as the 4% increases to ss, medicare and medicaid.

At this point, the source of the debt or deficit doesn’t really matter that much.  It’s simply unsustainable IMO.  Trump set the expectation that he could eliminate the debt within 8 years.  He’s 1 ½ years in yet is adding to it massively. 

We all know, the sooner we attack this problem (including entitlement reform, which Trump says he will NOT do), the easier it’s going to be to solve it.  This so-called “conservative” President (and self-described "great deal-maker"), like the liberal President before him, appears unwilling to make the tough fiscal choices necessary to truly attack the debt and deficit (and unable to make those "great deals" with Congress to attack it).  From a debt and deficit perspective, sadly, I haven’t seen much difference between this so-called “conservative” and his liberal predecessor. 
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Online Chosen Daughter

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Re: Federal deficit soars 32 percent to $895B
« Reply #40 on: September 12, 2018, 10:32:20 AM »
At this point, the source of the debt or deficit doesn’t really matter that much.  It’s simply unsustainable IMO.  Trump set the expectation that he could eliminate the debt within 8 years.  He’s 1 ½ years in yet is adding to it massively. 

We all know, the sooner we attack this problem (including entitlement reform, which Trump says he will NOT do), the easier it’s going to be to solve it.  This so-called “conservative” President (and self-described "great deal-maker"), like the liberal President before him, appears unwilling to make the tough fiscal choices necessary to truly attack the debt and deficit (and unable to make those "great deals" with Congress to attack it).  From a debt and deficit perspective, sadly, I haven’t seen much difference between this so-called “conservative” and his liberal predecessor.

Someone should spam that all over the board.  They like to put up the list of "accomplishments" but they won't acknowledge simple facts like this.  Major campaign failure.
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Profound statement.  What if we believed in our Constitution and Bill of Rights?  To believe that every man and woman is created equal?  That the Almighty God created!  That Americans should be judged by their character not their skin color.  Why do we still judge people by the color of their skin?  Why do we have Affirmative Action?  Why do employers discriminate by race?

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: Federal deficit soars 32 percent to $895B
« Reply #41 on: September 12, 2018, 03:01:00 PM »
At this point, the source of the debt or deficit doesn’t really matter that much.
you really believe that?

You see no difference in Obama paying off donors and funding our defense?

Wacky.
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Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: Federal deficit soars 32 percent to $895B
« Reply #42 on: September 12, 2018, 03:05:56 PM »
He’s 1 ½ years in yet is adding to it massively. 

seems you haven't explained as yet how he is responsible for increased interest on past debt incurred by predecesdors, noR the 4% increase in entitlements of ss, Medicare or medicaid
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Offline DB

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Re: Federal deficit soars 32 percent to $895B
« Reply #43 on: September 12, 2018, 03:13:35 PM »
seems you haven't explained as yet how he is responsible for increased interest on past debt incurred by predecesdors, noR the 4% increase in entitlements of ss, Medicare or medicaid

What Trump is doing is the same as what came before him. And the consequences will be the same. The previous debt you blame for what's happening now will be someone else's "previous debt" that causes future consequences.

Trump was supposed to be the guy that changed that path. Remember? Not ramp it up.

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: Federal deficit soars 32 percent to $895B
« Reply #44 on: September 12, 2018, 03:19:53 PM »
What Trump is doing is the same as what came before him. And the consequences will be the same.
really?

You must not have cared to read the details on the massive cuts in Education and EPA in last 11 months.

Which of his predecesdors did that?
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Re: Federal deficit soars 32 percent to $895B
« Reply #45 on: September 12, 2018, 03:27:02 PM »
really?

You must not have cared to read the details on the massive cuts in Education and EPA in last 11 months.

Which of his predecesdors did that?

You cannot see what you refuse to look at. 

Offline skeeter

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Re: Federal deficit soars 32 percent to $895B
« Reply #46 on: September 12, 2018, 03:36:52 PM »
What Trump is doing is the same as what came before him. And the consequences will be the same. The previous debt you blame for what's happening now will be someone else's "previous debt" that causes future consequences.

Trump was supposed to be the guy that changed that path. Remember? Not ramp it up.

Its a bit unfair to blame Trump for the deficits increase what with mandated spending increases not of his doing and the prime rate being .75 higher than it was this time last year.

He is chipping away at the budget as well as driving the effort to get back to regular order in the budget process, not to mention growing GDP significantly with tax & regulatory reforms, all of which will have positive effect on the deficit eventually but theres only so much a president can do in two years.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2018, 03:40:10 PM by skeeter »

Offline roamer_1

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Re: Federal deficit soars 32 percent to $895B
« Reply #47 on: September 12, 2018, 03:41:44 PM »
really?

You must not have cared to read the details on the massive cuts in Education and EPA in last 11 months.

Which of his predecesdors did that?

And yet the increase.

My kitchen table says when I ain't got enough money, I don't rely on credit cards... And the money has to come from somewhere. Oddly enough, folks get mad when I print more. Go figger.  :shrug:

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Re: Federal deficit soars 32 percent to $895B
« Reply #48 on: September 12, 2018, 03:42:50 PM »
Its a bit unfair to blame Trump for the deficits increase what with mandated spending increases not of his doing and the prime rate being .75 higher than it was this time last year.

He is chipping away at the budget as well as driving the effort to get back to regular order in the budget process, which will have positive effect eventually but theres only so much a president can do in two years.

 :amen: It never ceases to amaze me what some people seem to expect of a man.  Especially one who has all the things this particular one has arrayed against him.

Offline Free Vulcan

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Re: Federal deficit soars 32 percent to $895B
« Reply #49 on: September 12, 2018, 03:45:39 PM »
This is my main knock against Trump, that he signed the last porkulus bill.

That said, where do I put the blame? Trump for sure, but as as a conservative who believes in Separate But Equal government, half that blame falls on Ryan, McConnell, and Congress.

They had total control as to the details of that spending monster of a bill, and they sent it up to Pennsylvania Ave anyway.
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