Author Topic: Judicial Watch Victory: Judge Orders Army to Reconsider Granting Purple Heart to Sgt. Joshua Berry f  (Read 671 times)

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Offline AbaraXas

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@AbaraXas

So what? How was he fighting that terrorist by sitting in a audience at a military base in the US? Guess what,Bubba,if you were a truck driver injured in a wreck,helicopter or aircraft crewman injured by aircraft accident in a combat zone you didn't get a Purple Heart,either. To earn a Purple Heart you MUST have been wounded in combat against an armed enemy.

BTW,you know what is really behind this,right? Some of the REMF officers and senior NCO's that were there and who had spent their entire careers avoiding combat wanted to be awarded a Purple Heart to improve their promotion chances.

When the Purple Heart ceases being a combat only award,it will cease to have any meaning at all.


Maybe I am missing something. When these purple hearts were awarded for victims of the Fort Hood terrorist attack, people here cheered for it and said it was 'about time' (link above). They were victims of terrorism just like troops sitting in station in the embassy in Beirut when a truck bomb went off. They were awarded the Purple Heart too.

Why is it we cheered when they were awarded, but now say it is a travesty that they were awarded- for the very same people in the very same incident?

Offline sneakypete

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Maybe I am missing something. When these purple hearts were awarded for victims of the Fort Hood terrorist attack, people here cheered for it and said it was 'about time' (link above). They were victims of terrorism just like troops sitting in station in the embassy in Beirut when a truck bomb went off. They were awarded the Purple Heart too.

Why is it we cheered when they were awarded, but now say it is a travesty that they were awarded- for the very same people in the very same incident?

What's this "we stuff",white man?

The Marines killed in the Beirut bombing were deployed to what was considered to be a combat zone. It's been a while since Texas was a combat zone.
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Offline Sanguine

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What's this "we stuff",white man?

The Marines killed in the Beirut bombing were deployed to what was considered to be a combat zone. It's been a while since Texas was a combat zone.

Yeah, it has been a while.  About the time Nidal Hassan went off.
Cui bono?

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Offline verga

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Yeah, it has been a while.  About the time Nidal Hassan went off.
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Offline sneakypete

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Yeah, it has been a while.  About the time Nidal Hassan went off.

@Sanguine

Ok,you just clearly established that you have no idea what a combat zone is and have never been to one.
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Offline Sanguine

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@Sanguine

Ok,you just clearly established that you have no idea what a combat zone is and have never been to one.

No, that has not been established.
Cui bono?

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But the noble make noble plans, and by noble deeds they stand.

Offline Hoodat

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At least in a combat zone, one is armed.  Not so with the Ft. Hood victims.
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Online Bigun

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At least in a combat zone, one is armed.  Not so with the Ft. Hood victims.

And some of them surely should have been armed.  Even at their own home base. Some percentage of them should be on duty and armed 24/7/365 no matter where they are in the world.

Online Free Vulcan

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I'm just questioning if the courts even have the jurisdiction here.
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Offline raml

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My thought are the same expressed by Free Vulcan do the courts have any jurisdiction here?

Offline sneakypete

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No, that has not been established.

@Sanguine

Yes,it has. Your ignorance about it is proof of this.
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Offline Sanguine

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@Sanguine

Yes,it has. Your ignorance about it is proof of this.

The fact that you can't even see that you could be wrong belies that.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2018, 06:45:19 PM by Sanguine »
Cui bono?

Walk in Wisdom
See then that you walk circumspectly, not as fools but as wise, redeeming the time, because the days are evil.

But the noble make noble plans, and by noble deeds they stand.

Offline sneakypete

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And some of them surely should have been armed.  Even at their own home base. Some percentage of them should be on duty and armed 24/7/365 no matter where they are in the world.

@Bigun

Unfortunately the regular peacetime army is ran by career Regular Army officers who care about nothing on Earth more than their careers,and are terrified of being blamed if one of their garrison soldiers shoots somebody with a issue weapon,and it gets back to the Pentegram that they weren't controlling their men.

I have had RA officers come up to me while traveling around VN with a sub gun of some sort because they are light and easy to carry,and inform me I am carrying an unauthorized weapon and they have to seize it.  Every single one of them changed their minds when I told them "You got THAT shit right!"

This is the prime reason the regular army hated Special Forces. They had no authority over us,and couldn't order us to do a damn thing we didn't want to do. We had a different agenda we were working on than them that didn't involve following rule books,and they hate anybody and everybody that doesn't wear red and march in a straight line. It would really piss them off when they would ask "what are you doing in our AO?",and we would truthfully tell them "You don't have a need to know." If it hadn't been that way we would have never had the time to train any indigenous troops or run any missions because they wanted us under their command to run recon missions for THEM.

There was a USMC General officer relived of his command for refusing orders to send armor and infantry in to keep a remote SF camp in his AO from being overran by the NVA. He flat refused to do it,and Westmoreland flew into DaNang the next morning to personally relieve him of his command and replace him. As a result the camp was overran,several hundred Montagnard civilians were killed by the NVA as a result when the camp was overran. To this day there are still 2 SF guys listed as missing in action. The only reason more weren't missing is because the SF guys from CCN took it upon themselves to fly in the next morning at sunrise with SVN helicopter pilots flying the helicopters,and they rescued the survivors that were still in hiding as the NVA ran off. If that Marine General had flown in a couple of companies of Marines the previous afternoon,the camp would have never been overran. The NVA drove into the camp in freaking Soviet tanks,and the troops there had nothing that would defeat the armor other than mortars,and that would take a direct hit. Something really hard to do with a mortar. IIRC,this was 1969.   
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Offline sneakypete

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And some of them surely should have been armed.  Even at their own home base. Some percentage of them should be on duty and armed 24/7/365 no matter where they are in the world.

@Bigun

BTW,the only soldiers armed on a daily basis at army bases are the MP's,and they aren't allowed to carry a chambered round in their handguns. The only exception to this rule that I am aware of are the guards at Special Operations compounds. Do NOT screw with them because they WILL blow you away and get away with it. Your name and face is on their list of people to get admitted that day,and if you ain't on the list,you don't get in. Not even if they know you personally.

I suppose the same is true of S-1,S-2,and S-3 headquarters at Division levels,but have never been in a division,so I am just guessing.

One good rule of thumb to follow ANYWHERE you go in the army is that if the guy guarding the gate is a E-7,E8, or E-9 and he tells you that you are not coming in if your name and photo isn't on his list,take his word for it and leave quietly.
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Offline sneakypete

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I'm just questioning if the courts even have the jurisdiction here.

@Free Vulcan

No,they don't. The only courts that have any say on this issue are the JAG courts. Military members don't come under or have rights under Constitutional Law. Good catch!

Then again,if Congress sticks it's big red nose in,they can get what they want because they will cut the military budget if they don't.
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Online Bigun

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@Bigun

Unfortunately the regular peacetime army is ran by career Regular Army officers who care about nothing on Earth more than their careers,and are terrified of being blamed if one of their garrison soldiers shoots somebody with a issue weapon,and it gets back to the Pentegram that they weren't controlling their men.

I have had RA officers come up to me while traveling around VN with a sub gun of some sort because they are light and easy to carry,and inform me I am carrying an unauthorized weapon and they have to seize it.  Every single one of them changed their minds when I told them "You got THAT shit right!"

This is the prime reason the regular army hated Special Forces. They had no authority over us,and couldn't order us to do a damn thing we didn't want to do. We had a different agenda we were working on than them that didn't involve following rule books,and they hate anybody and everybody that doesn't wear red and march in a straight line. It would really piss them off when they would ask "what are you doing in our AO?",and we would truthfully tell them "You don't have a need to know." If it hadn't been that way we would have never had the time to train any indigenous troops or run any missions because they wanted us under their command to run recon missions for THEM.

There was a USMC General officer relived of his command for refusing orders to send armor and infantry in to keep a remote SF camp in his AO from being overran by the NVA. He flat refused to do it,and Westmoreland flew into DaNang the next morning to personally relieve him of his command and replace him. As a result the camp was overran,several hundred Montagnard civilians were killed by the NVA as a result when the camp was overran. To this day there are still 2 SF guys listed as missing in action. The only reason more weren't missing is because the SF guys from CCN took it upon themselves to fly in the next morning at sunrise with SVN helicopter pilots flying the helicopters,and they rescued the survivors that were still in hiding as the NVA ran off. If that Marine General had flown in a couple of companies of Marines the previous afternoon,the camp would have never been overran. The NVA drove into the camp in freaking Soviet tanks,and the troops there had nothing that would defeat the armor other than mortars,and that would take a direct hit. Something really hard to do with a mortar. IIRC,this was 1969.

@sneakypete

There is no doubt that things have changed radically since I got out and not for the better either.

Offline Smokin Joe

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@Sanguine

 The Purple Heart Medal is ONLY awarded to military members who are killed or wounded while in combat with an armed enemy. You don't get one if you are shot or killed by your fellow soldier because you didn't earn it any more than you would have earned one from being killed in an auto accident.

Right. My father had one of his Purple Hearts rescinded when it was discovered the tank round that wounded him and killed several in his squad was fired by an Anerican tank and not Chinese or North Korean. No Heart for "friendly fire".
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Offline InHeavenThereIsNoBeer

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Right. My father had one of his Purple Hearts rescinded when it was discovered the tank round that wounded him and killed several in his squad was fired by an Anerican tank and not Chinese or North Korean. No Heart for "friendly fire".

That sucks, IMO.  You put yourself in harm's way while I sit here at my keyboard, I just don't care which way the round was going.

Offline sneakypete

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Right. My father had one of his Purple Hearts rescinded when it was discovered the tank round that wounded him and killed several in his squad was fired by an Anerican tank and not Chinese or North Korean. No Heart for "friendly fire".

@Smokin Joe

Sad,because your father WAS in combat with an armed enemy or the US tanks wouldn't have been firing.

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Offline Smokin Joe

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@Smokin Joe

Sad,because your father WAS in combat with an armed enemy or the US tanks wouldn't have been firing.
Dad was pretty philosophical about it all. He was awarded it three times in all, before they rescinded that one. He wasn't in it for the medals, and would have gladly given them all up to have the guys that tank round killed back--he was the lucky one, they absorbed most of the damage.

Still, as I grow older myself, I realize it is nice to have tangible symbols of recognition for the things you do (or, in some cases, are done to you).
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression
And I looked, and rose up, and said unto the nobles, and to the rulers, and to the rest of the people, Be not ye afraid of them: remember the Lord, which is great and terrible, and fight for your brethren, your sons, and your daughters, your wives, and your houses. Nehemiah 4:14 (KJV)

About the only "Big" Liberals don't revile is "Big Government"

Offline Smokin Joe

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That sucks, IMO.  You put yourself in harm's way while I sit here at my keyboard, I just don't care which way the round was going.
Yeah. I would change that to all battlefield injuries not self-inflicted and sustained in active combat, but I don't make the rules. A good 'sea lawyer' might have claimed that the tank round was fired as a result of enemy action, but my father is one who has had so many various other non-military awards over the years, another oak leaf on a small ribbon in a shadow box doesn't matter enough to him to contest it.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression
And I looked, and rose up, and said unto the nobles, and to the rulers, and to the rest of the people, Be not ye afraid of them: remember the Lord, which is great and terrible, and fight for your brethren, your sons, and your daughters, your wives, and your houses. Nehemiah 4:14 (KJV)

About the only "Big" Liberals don't revile is "Big Government"


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