Author Topic: Richard Spencer, Wilsonian Progressive  (Read 1885 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline endicom

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10,113
Richard Spencer, Wilsonian Progressive
« on: August 10, 2018, 10:29:32 pm »
American Greatness
Dinesh D'Souza
Aug. 10, 2018

I’ve never interviewed a white supremacist before, so I didn’t know what to expect when Richard Spencer showed up to talk to me, with my film team present and the cameras rolling. Spencer is often portrayed as the most dangerous man in America. A profile of him in the Atlantic Monthly likened him to Hitler with the title, “His Kampf,” and when he showed up to speak at the University of Florida the governor declared a state emergency. Normally you have to be a hurricane or an epidemic to qualify for that designation.

My wife Debbie and I had arranged security—after all, we are both immigrants from Third World countries and Spencer is not known to be a fan of our type. But from the moment we saw him, we knew we had nothing to fear. Spencer came alone, unaccompanied by goons. He looked around nervously, giving me an eager-to-please smile. I saw right away he is a cordial, diffident guy. Dressed in a tweed jacket, he looked somewhat like an academic from a previous era.

“No, I’m not a Nazi,” Spencer said right away. “I’m not a neo-Nazi. I’m not any of those things.” Why then, I asked him, did you and your pals give the Nazi salute, the raised arm and the “Hail Trump”? At first Spencer pretended it was no big deal. “Well, you know, we have Hail to the Chief, lots of things.” But when I pressed him acknowledged it was for effect, a kind of up-yours to the politically correct class. “I was being provocative.”

More... https://amgreatness.com/2018/08/10/richard-spencer-wilsonian-progressive/

Offline Sanguine

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 35,986
  • Gender: Female
  • Ex-member
Re: Richard Spencer, Wilsonian Progressive
« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2018, 03:33:15 am »
This is great reading for those of us who have any confusion as to what is left vs. right. 

Quote
...My real interest was to find out what Spencer really believed, with a view to figuring out where he really belongs on the political spectrum. I asked him whether he sought to conserve the principles of the American Founding. He responded, “I’ve been critical of the American founding throughout my career.” The whole concept of individual rights, he said, was “problematic.”

Me: So, all men are created equal. True or false?

Spencer: False, obviously.

Me: The idea that we have a right to life, true or false?

Spencer: I don’t think we have rights to really anything.

I asked Spencer about his advocacy of a concept called the white ethno-state.

Me: What I take you to be saying is that the white ethno-state would have a powerful state at the center of it.

Spencer: No question.

Me: But this notion of limited government . . . As you know, the founders saw the government as the enemy of our rights.

Spencer: No individual has a right outside of a collective community. You have rights, not eternally or given by God, or by nature....

Spencer has much more in common with Antifa than he does with us.

Offline endicom

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10,113
Re: Richard Spencer, Wilsonian Progressive
« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2018, 04:32:51 am »
This is great reading for those of us who have any confusion as to what is left vs. right. 

Spencer has much more in common with Antifa than he does with us.


In my view, Left-Right is a spectrum of despotism. I see no place for individual freedom there.


Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

  • Technical
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,133
Re: Richard Spencer, Wilsonian Progressive
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2018, 11:14:41 am »
He's not a Nazi? What about his little "hail Trump hail victory" crap then? Most bizarre moment in the last few years in politics.

Offline guitar4jesus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,217
  • Gender: Male
  • Yup...
Re: Richard Spencer, Wilsonian Progressive
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2018, 11:52:15 am »
Spencer has much more in common with Antifa than he does with us.

Got that right.

Offline GrouchoTex

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7,382
  • Gender: Male
Re: Richard Spencer, Wilsonian Progressive
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2018, 01:21:53 pm »
His interview is proving the point of another thread here, that Spencer's brand of Nationalism and Socialism aren't that far removed.

Offline endicom

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10,113
Re: Richard Spencer, Wilsonian Progressive
« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2018, 01:45:47 pm »
His interview is proving the point of another thread here, that Spencer's brand of Nationalism and Socialism aren't that far removed.


Spencer wants a controlling state to further his ends. His state, at the least, leans socialist. His state is patently racialist and could be either of what we call left or right.

I think D'Souza errs in trying to place Spencer on the 'political spectrum.' About the only people fitting on that spectrum are those accepting it as comprehensive and pledging themselves to one portion of it. Where is individual freedom on that spectrum?


Offline guitar4jesus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,217
  • Gender: Male
  • Yup...
Re: Richard Spencer, Wilsonian Progressive
« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2018, 01:48:33 pm »

Spencer wants a controlling state to further his ends. His state, at the least, leans socialist. His state is patently racialist and could be either of what we call left or right.

I think D'Souza errs in trying to place Spencer on the 'political spectrum.' About the only people fitting on that spectrum are those accepting it as comprehensive and pledging themselves to one portion of it. Where is individual freedom on that spectrum?

That's because D'Souza is a nut job.  Just my opinion of course... :whistle:

Offline Sanguine

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 35,986
  • Gender: Female
  • Ex-member
Re: Richard Spencer, Wilsonian Progressive
« Reply #8 on: August 11, 2018, 02:11:42 pm »

Spencer wants a controlling state to further his ends. His state, at the least, leans socialist. His state is patently racialist and could be either of what we call left or right.

I think D'Souza errs in trying to place Spencer on the 'political spectrum.' About the only people fitting on that spectrum are those accepting it as comprehensive and pledging themselves to one portion of it. Where is individual freedom on that spectrum?

I'd say Spencer's own words place him on the spectrum.

Offline Cyber Liberty

  • Coffee! Donuts! Kittens!
  • Administrator
  • ******
  • Posts: 79,873
  • Gender: Male
  • 🌵🌵🌵
Re: Richard Spencer, Wilsonian Progressive
« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2018, 02:27:13 pm »
He's not a Nazi? What about his little "hail Trump hail victory" crap then? Most bizarre moment in the last few years in politics.

He explains that.  I found the explanation...unsatisfactory.  He contradicted himself over the course of the interview.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline endicom

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10,113
Re: Richard Spencer, Wilsonian Progressive
« Reply #10 on: August 11, 2018, 02:28:08 pm »
I'd say Spencer's own words place him on the spectrum.


Well, racialist attitudes are ostensibly rightist. Why? Because it has so been decreed.


Offline Sanguine

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 35,986
  • Gender: Female
  • Ex-member
Re: Richard Spencer, Wilsonian Progressive
« Reply #11 on: August 11, 2018, 02:46:45 pm »

Well, racialist attitudes are ostensibly rightist. Why? Because it has so been decreed.

It's easy to show how wrong that is though.

Offline GrouchoTex

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7,382
  • Gender: Male
Re: Richard Spencer, Wilsonian Progressive
« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2018, 02:35:18 am »

Spencer wants a controlling state to further his ends. His state, at the least, leans socialist. His state is patently racialist and could be either of what we call left or right.

I think D'Souza errs in trying to place Spencer on the 'political spectrum.' About the only people fitting on that spectrum are those accepting it as comprehensive and pledging themselves to one portion of it. Where is individual freedom on that spectrum?

I don’t disagree with you.
It is Spencer putting himself on the political spectrum.
No, Nationalism or Socialism. Need not be racist, but has history shown you an example where either philosophy ended up not being so?

Another common thread in both is that they’be required an enemy to rally against. That could be race, but does not necessarily have to be.

Offline endicom

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10,113
Re: Richard Spencer, Wilsonian Progressive
« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2018, 02:45:25 am »
I don’t disagree with you.
It is Spencer putting himself on the political spectrum.
No, Nationalism or Socialism. Need not be racist, but has history shown you an example where either philosophy ended up not being so?

Another common thread in both is that they’be required an enemy to rally against. That could be race, but does not necessarily have to be.


I can just say again that the United States was founded by nationalists.


Offline GrouchoTex

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7,382
  • Gender: Male
Re: Richard Spencer, Wilsonian Progressive
« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2018, 02:49:17 am »

I can just say again that the United States was founded by nationalists.

I can just say again that Spencer’s brand of Nationalism and Socialism are not that far removed from one another

Offline endicom

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10,113
Re: Richard Spencer, Wilsonian Progressive
« Reply #15 on: August 12, 2018, 02:54:37 am »
I can just say again that Spencer’s brand of Nationalism and Socialism are not that far removed from one another


Okay, but you asked if history shows either nationalism or socialism not ending as racist.


Offline GrouchoTex

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7,382
  • Gender: Male
Re: Richard Spencer, Wilsonian Progressive
« Reply #16 on: August 12, 2018, 03:28:22 am »

Okay, but you asked if history shows either nationalism or socialism not ending as racist.

i guess this is our dilemma.
Nationalism may mean different things to you and I.
If we understood what each other meant, I think we would find ourselves in agreement.