Author Topic: 'Boy or girl?' Parents raising 'theybies' let kids decide  (Read 12776 times)

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Offline musiclady

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Re: 'Boy or girl?' Parents raising 'theybies' let kids decide
« Reply #100 on: July 25, 2018, 05:51:08 pm »
I never understood the "born that way" argument.  I think some people are naturally "wired" to respond to conflict with physical violence, is that supposed to make it okay?

That is the logical conclusion they ought to come to, but do not.

Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline thackney

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Re: 'Boy or girl?' Parents raising 'theybies' let kids decide
« Reply #101 on: July 25, 2018, 05:56:29 pm »
I do think we should have compassion for those who are wired differently and are able to resist that wiring.  It's got to be very, very tough, since sexuality is a very basic, integral part of who we are.

I can agree with that, love the sinner and hate the sin.

A lot harder for me to take the same stance for pedophilic disorder.
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Offline Sanguine

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Re: 'Boy or girl?' Parents raising 'theybies' let kids decide
« Reply #102 on: July 25, 2018, 06:01:22 pm »
I can agree with that, love the sinner and hate the sin.

A lot harder for me to take the same stance for pedophilic disorder.

That's a whole different situation and appears to be - usually - a result of being exposed to soul-corrupting sexual abuse at a young age.   It doesn't appear to have a genetic or congenital component.

Offline XenaLee

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Re: 'Boy or girl?' Parents raising 'theybies' let kids decide
« Reply #103 on: July 25, 2018, 06:07:11 pm »
I think most of homosexual men were indeed born that way.  Does that change the religious observations?  No, it doesn't.

And I think you are incorrect re: that.
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Offline XenaLee

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Re: 'Boy or girl?' Parents raising 'theybies' let kids decide
« Reply #104 on: July 25, 2018, 06:08:13 pm »
That's a whole different situation and appears to be - usually - a result of being exposed to soul-corrupting sexual abuse at a young age.   It doesn't appear to have a genetic or congenital component.

And yet.... you will undoubtedly hear the pedophiles claim that they, too, were "born that way".

Not so.
No quarter given to the enemy within...ever.

You can vote your way into socialism, but you have to shoot your way out of it.

Offline Sanguine

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Re: 'Boy or girl?' Parents raising 'theybies' let kids decide
« Reply #105 on: July 25, 2018, 06:24:45 pm »
And I think you are incorrect re: that.

Really?  Just going where the objective evidence takes us.  And, you think that, oh, say in Iran, men choose to be that way?  Odd strategy that.

Offline Sanguine

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Re: 'Boy or girl?' Parents raising 'theybies' let kids decide
« Reply #106 on: July 25, 2018, 06:25:15 pm »
And yet.... you will undoubtedly hear the pedophiles claim that they, too, were "born that way".

Not so.

No, I've never heard or seen that. 

Offline INVAR

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Re: 'Boy or girl?' Parents raising 'theybies' let kids decide
« Reply #107 on: July 25, 2018, 06:28:19 pm »
And yet.... you will undoubtedly hear the pedophiles claim that they, too, were "born that way".

Not so.

Well, the template that exists in this country is that if you are 'born that way', then you are encouraged to 'be yourself' and act on that 'wiring' and then force everyone to recognize your behavior as normal, good, moral and virtuous.

So if you are a pedophile "born that way" then society says you must act on your desires, and get everyone to accept your behavior as good, right and normal - and use government and the courts to force you to serve it.

Same is true if you are a violent person or murderer "born that way".  It is your right to be who you are and act on your wiring.

Who are we to judge - but bigots?
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

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Offline XenaLee

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Re: 'Boy or girl?' Parents raising 'theybies' let kids decide
« Reply #108 on: July 25, 2018, 06:41:03 pm »
Well, the template that exists in this country is that if you are 'born that way', then you are encouraged to 'be yourself' and act on that 'wiring' and then force everyone to recognize your behavior as normal, good, moral and virtuous.

So if you are a pedophile "born that way" then society says you must act on your desires, and get everyone to accept your behavior as good, right and normal - and use government and the courts to force you to serve it.

Same is true if you are a violent person or murderer "born that way".  It is your right to be who you are and act on your wiring.

Who are we to judge - but bigots?

God does not "create" pedophiles or homosexuals.   Children are ALL born innocent.... which is why Jesus loved/loves the little children.  Because of their innocence.

All of this BS that claims you are born "that way" is just that....

BS.
No quarter given to the enemy within...ever.

You can vote your way into socialism, but you have to shoot your way out of it.

Offline Sanguine

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Re: 'Boy or girl?' Parents raising 'theybies' let kids decide
« Reply #109 on: July 25, 2018, 06:48:50 pm »
God does not "create" pedophiles or homosexuals.   Children are ALL born innocent.... which is why Jesus loved/loves the little children.  Because of their innocence.

All of this BS that claims you are born "that way" is just that....

BS.

No, we are all born with original sin.  That is part of what we are. 

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: 'Boy or girl?' Parents raising 'theybies' let kids decide
« Reply #110 on: July 25, 2018, 06:56:19 pm »
Yep.   :shrug:

I do think we should have compassion for those who are wired differently and are able to resist that wiring.  It's got to be very, very tough, since sexuality is a very basic, integral part of who we are.

Yes, it is.  And IMO the thrust should be sexual responsibility and accountability.   Not arbitrary condemnation regardless of whether a gay couple lives faithfully and monogamously.

The cultural problems are promiscuity, unfaithfulness, and dishonesty and betrayal.  Christians seem to say little about divorce, but shout themselves hoarse about how my neighbors - faithful and true - are nevertheless abominations and perverts.  To them, the only prescriptions for a man or woman born gay are to remain celibate, or trick some poor innocent into a sham marriage where the sexual relationship will be non-existent or unfulfilling. 

It's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide

Offline musiclady

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Re: 'Boy or girl?' Parents raising 'theybies' let kids decide
« Reply #111 on: July 25, 2018, 07:00:21 pm »
Well, the template that exists in this country is that if you are 'born that way', then you are encouraged to 'be yourself' and act on that 'wiring' and then force everyone to recognize your behavior as normal, good, moral and virtuous.

So if you are a pedophile "born that way" then society says you must act on your desires, and get everyone to accept your behavior as good, right and normal - and use government and the courts to force you to serve it.

Same is true if you are a violent person or murderer "born that way".  It is your right to be who you are and act on your wiring.

Who are we to judge - but bigots?

The gay agenda has mandated that we not judge people for "who they love."

And yet, they try to maintain that it doesn't mean if you "love" an 8 year old girl.

They can't have it both ways, and yet they insist that we buckle under their tyrannical views against Biblical morality.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline XenaLee

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Re: 'Boy or girl?' Parents raising 'theybies' let kids decide
« Reply #112 on: July 25, 2018, 07:00:37 pm »
No, we are all born with original sin.  That is part of what we are.


Are you trying to claim that  "original sin" causes children to be born gay or prone to pedophilia?  Cause that is what the discussion was referring to.  If so, I'm stunned.   :shrug:



No quarter given to the enemy within...ever.

You can vote your way into socialism, but you have to shoot your way out of it.

Offline Sanguine

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Re: 'Boy or girl?' Parents raising 'theybies' let kids decide
« Reply #113 on: July 25, 2018, 07:04:17 pm »
Yes, it is.  And IMO the thrust should be sexual responsibility and accountability.   Not arbitrary condemnation regardless of whether a gay couple lives faithfully and monogamously.

The cultural problems are promiscuity, unfaithfulness, and dishonesty and betrayal.  Christians seem to say little about divorce, but shout themselves hoarse about how my neighbors - faithful and true - are nevertheless abominations and perverts.  To them, the only prescriptions for a man or woman born gay are to remain celibate, or trick some poor innocent into a sham marriage where the sexual relationship will be non-existent or unfulfilling.

No, don't manipulate my words.  There is no "gay marriage" and I don't care if people remain "faithful and true" to their own desires.  That totally misses the point.

Offline Sanguine

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Re: 'Boy or girl?' Parents raising 'theybies' let kids decide
« Reply #114 on: July 25, 2018, 07:06:20 pm »
Are you trying to claim that  "original sin" causes children to be born gay or prone to pedophilia?  Cause that is what the discussion was referring to.  If so, I'm stunned.   :shrug:

While that was not anything close to what I was saying, yes, I guess original sin covers all sin.  Is that what you were asking?  Or, you think there are special categories that are not covered by the concept of original sin?

Online Bigun

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Re: 'Boy or girl?' Parents raising 'theybies' let kids decide
« Reply #115 on: July 25, 2018, 07:08:22 pm »
We are all born with our individual DNA and if yours includes Y chromosome you are a male.  If it has no Y chromosome you are female. 

Yes it really is that simple!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline musiclady

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Re: 'Boy or girl?' Parents raising 'theybies' let kids decide
« Reply #116 on: July 25, 2018, 07:10:18 pm »
We are all born with our individual DNA and if yours includes Y chromosome you are a male.  If it has no Y chromosome you are female. 

Yes it really is that simple!

You mean you can't become a boy if you're a girl just cause you wanna be a boy? (Or your parents want you to be neuter??)

I'm SHOCKED, I tell ya...... SHOCKED! 
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Online Bigun

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Re: 'Boy or girl?' Parents raising 'theybies' let kids decide
« Reply #117 on: July 25, 2018, 07:18:47 pm »
You mean you can't become a boy if you're a girl just cause you wanna be a boy? (Or your parents want you to be neuter??)

I'm SHOCKED, I tell ya...... SHOCKED!

Oh!  It's better than that!  You can have parts removed or added to your hearts content but that only makes you a male or female who has chosen to physically disfigure yourself.  It does not change your sex.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline musiclady

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Re: 'Boy or girl?' Parents raising 'theybies' let kids decide
« Reply #118 on: July 25, 2018, 07:21:18 pm »
Oh!  It's better than that!  You can have parts removed or added to your hearts content but that only makes you a male or female who has chosen to physically disfigure yourself.  It does not change your sex.

Indeed!

Bruce Jenner is a physically disfigured, mentally ill MALE, and always will be.

The idea that he has been celebrated as somehow courageous, is proof of the moral, mental illness of the left.

(As are these abusive parents).
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline Sanguine

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Re: 'Boy or girl?' Parents raising 'theybies' let kids decide
« Reply #119 on: July 25, 2018, 07:22:43 pm »
We are all born with our individual DNA and if yours includes Y chromosome you are a male.  If it has no Y chromosome you are female. 

Yes it really is that simple!

Oh.  An on-topic comment?   ^-^

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: 'Boy or girl?' Parents raising 'theybies' let kids decide
« Reply #120 on: July 25, 2018, 07:45:41 pm »
No, don't manipulate my words.  There is no "gay marriage" and I don't care if people remain "faithful and true" to their own desires.  That totally misses the point.

I didn't manipulate your words.  I gave my opinion.   And same sex marriage is a fact under the civil law.   Under the Constitution,  religious freedom preserves the right of the Church to be arbitrarily cruel.   I accept that as a price of liberty, much as I accept the right to choose an abortion even as I am appalled by it.  But at least when it comes to religion, I can exercise my own liberty and reject the Church for imposing such cruelty on good, faithful people.   I feel that is the least I can do to demonstrate my respect for Christ and his message of empathy.   
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Offline musiclady

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Re: 'Boy or girl?' Parents raising 'theybies' let kids decide
« Reply #121 on: July 25, 2018, 07:50:11 pm »
I didn't manipulate your words.  I gave my opinion.   And same sex marriage is a fact under the civil law.   Under the Constitution,  religious freedom preserves the right of the Church to be arbitrarily cruel.   I accept that as a price of liberty, much as I accept the right to choose an abortion even as I am appalled by it.  But at least when it comes to religion, I can exercise my own liberty and reject the Church for imposing such cruelty on good, faithful people.   I feel that is the least I can do to demonstrate my respect for Christ and his message of empathy.

Nothing you ever say reflects even the most basic knowledge or understanding of Jesus Christ.

Stop using His Name as though you have even the slightest clue about His teaching.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: 'Boy or girl?' Parents raising 'theybies' let kids decide
« Reply #122 on: July 25, 2018, 08:49:58 pm »
Nothing you ever say reflects even the most basic knowledge or understanding of Jesus Christ.

Stop using His Name as though you have even the slightest clue about His teaching.

And who made you Pope?   

I understand you'd be more comfortable if I was just another atheist dumping on God and Christ.  To the contrary,  I am a man of faith who is disillusioned by the message that the Bible justifies arbitrary cruelty and bigotry.   The word "perverts"  and other vile epithets fly freely on this board,  and those words come from the mouths of Christians who ought to know better about Christ's message of empathy.
   
« Last Edit: July 25, 2018, 08:56:14 pm by Jazzhead »
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Offline Sanguine

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Re: 'Boy or girl?' Parents raising 'theybies' let kids decide
« Reply #123 on: July 25, 2018, 08:54:11 pm »
And who made you Pope?   

I understand you'd be more comfortable if I was just another atheist dumping on God and Christ.  To the contrary,  I am a man of faith who is disillusioned by the message that the Bible justifies arbitrary cruelty and bigotry.   The words "perverts" and "bleep" and other vile epithets fly freely on this board,  and those words come from the mouths of Christians who ought to know better about Christ's message of empathy.

I hate to admit it, but he's got a point.

Offline musiclady

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Re: 'Boy or girl?' Parents raising 'theybies' let kids decide
« Reply #124 on: July 25, 2018, 09:43:34 pm »
And who made you Pope?   

I understand you'd be more comfortable if I was just another atheist dumping on God and Christ.  To the contrary,  I am a man of faith who is disillusioned by the message that the Bible justifies arbitrary cruelty and bigotry.   The word "perverts"  and other vile epithets fly freely on this board,  and those words come from the mouths of Christians who ought to know better about Christ's message of empathy.
 

You had a point until the end, where you revealed your total lack of understanding, once again.

Christ's message is not one of "empathy," it is one of REDEMPTION from the sin that enslaves us, whether that be homosexual or heterosexual sin, envy, impatience, greed, hatred, or whatever it might be.  He shed His blood so that we might be freed from that sin.  He never, ever, ever "empathized" with sin.  He HATES it.  (Yours and mine).

I completely agree that the nasty words need to stop (I don't use them, but you don't seem to notice the difference, because you have condemned me in the group), but as long as you are claiming to know the Godhead, and grossly misinterpret and misstate what Jesus actually SAID (not what you want Him to have said), I will call you on it.

That doesn't actually make me "the Pope."  Your  lofty, self-centered condemnation of every conservative Christian on this board makes that more your problem than mine.

@Jazzhead
« Last Edit: July 25, 2018, 11:44:33 pm by musiclady »
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.