Author Topic: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD  (Read 22480 times)

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Offline txradioguy

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Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
« Reply #550 on: June 13, 2018, 09:38:02 AM »
Tom, who is it you want to hear from about ISIS on this NK thread?  I'm not sure what you're saying.

@Sanguine he's trying to play the moral equivalence card.  Using the red herring of "North Korea isn't as bad as Daesh (ISIS)" as a defence for Trump now saying glowing things about a brutal despot.
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Offline TomSea

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Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
« Reply #551 on: June 13, 2018, 09:38:08 AM »
Tom, who is it you want to hear from about ISIS on this NK thread?  I'm not sure what you're saying.

The people who may only comment on human rights (among other things) when they can be critical of Trump.

Offline driftdiver

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Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
« Reply #552 on: June 13, 2018, 09:38:31 AM »
So if you were a 1SG you'd have no problem with a PV2 skipping his entire chain of command to go talk to the Sgt. Major of The Army about a problem before he consults even his team leader?

That's the same kind of breach of protocol and proper notification and even common courtesy that Trump displayed by not consulting with his commanders on the ground in Korea...the Joint Chiefs or even his hand picked "Mad Dog" SecDef before announcing this unilateral withdrawl from the exercises.

Had Obama done this you'd be pissed and talking about everything I'm talking about right now and you know it. 

But because it's Trump.

@txradioguy
Sure I'd have a problem with a low ranking guy skipping the chain going up.

But if a general comes down and wants to talk to the private, I'm gonna say "Yes Sir".  Good grief does that really have to be explained?

I already said I don't think he should have done it.   Its not the big deal you are making it out to be.
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Offline TomSea

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Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
« Reply #553 on: June 13, 2018, 09:39:40 AM »
@Sanguine he's trying to play the moral equivalence card.  Using the red herring of "North Korea isn't as bad as Daesh (ISIS)" as a defence for Trump now saying glowing things about a brutal despot.

You can't read someone's mind.

@Concerned  brought up human rights. The Trump detractors seem to comment on matters often when they think they can criticize the administration.  Such seem to be disingenuous arguments.

Offline driftdiver

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Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
« Reply #554 on: June 13, 2018, 09:41:43 AM »
@Sanguine he's trying to play the moral equivalence card.  Using the red herring of "North Korea isn't as bad as Daesh (ISIS)" as a defence for Trump now saying glowing things about a brutal despot.

@txradioguy
Two sides of the same coin.

Would you rather have your head cut off or be run over with a steam roller?  Perhaps pinned to the ground so the cows can eat you?

Its a stupid argument.  Both are evil.   Making steps towards stopping one of them is not a bad thing.   

Perhaps you'd rather just sit back and do nothing and let more people be murdered?   Or maybe attack and start a nuclear war.   yeah thats the ticket.

Just six months ago many people were saying there were no good alternatives for solving the NK mess.  This summit is a damn good alternative.
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Offline txradioguy

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Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
« Reply #555 on: June 13, 2018, 09:46:43 AM »
@txradioguy
Two sides of the same coin.

No it isn't.  It's trying to rationalize being nice to an evil POS just because he gave you a photo op.

So if Trump pulls off a meeting with Mullah Omar and starts talking about what a "smart and strong" leader Mullah Omar is...will you dismiss his brutality the same way you are right now with Kim?

Quote
Perhaps you'd rather just sit back and do nothing and let more people be murdered?   Or maybe attack and start a nuclear war.   yeah thats the ticket.

Quit being hysterical.  No one here is saying we should start a nuclear war.  That's a just a BS talking point from the defend Trump at all costs crowd designed to dissuade serious discussion about this.

The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline RoosGirl

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Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
« Reply #556 on: June 13, 2018, 09:47:19 AM »
WOW talk about stupid shit.  Comparing a press release trying to ease peoples fears of nuclear war and celebrate a successful meeting to encouraging people to go to NK for vacation.


So typical. I criticize POTUS and AT shows up to criticize me.  I really don't understand the emotional investment and appearance that they take a criticism of POTUS as a personal insult.

Thjs was not a press release. It was (another) unforced Twit up.  There are good ways to say that the meeting was positive without resorting to crazy hyperbole.

Offline Sanguine

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Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
« Reply #557 on: June 13, 2018, 09:48:03 AM »
OK, I'm out of this thread.  Neither opposing side here knows what is going to happen, or really even what has happened, but that doesn't keep them from arguing from the few crumbs of knowledge that they have.  Endless bickering over what you don't know.  Ain't got time for that.
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Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
« Reply #558 on: June 13, 2018, 09:48:10 AM »
It's gives North Korea a nice big propaganda win and lets Kim go back to Pyongyang crowing about how he got the U.S. to fold on an issue they've resisted for decades.

So what?  I keep hearing about a "propaganda win", but what is the actual, tangible value to NK (or cost to us) of that "propaganda win"?  What does it actually get them?

This is my biggest issue with foreign policy pundits and politicians.  They put more emphasis on "optics" than they do on real-world, tangible actions.  It's like a politician who bases every single decision or statement on the short-term effect on polls.  The value of such "wins" is fleeting at best.  Nobody will care about that "propaganda win" in six months.  It will be completely irrelevant.

And what happens if in 90 days, Trump is calling him a big fat liar who broke his promises, and who presides over a bankrupt, starving country?   What does that do to any "propaganda win" the NK's  may have gotten from this meeting?

People are far too concerned about how things "look", than what actually happens.

Offline RoosGirl

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Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
« Reply #559 on: June 13, 2018, 09:49:09 AM »
No it isn't.  It's trying to rationalize being nice to an evil POS just because he gave you a photo op.

So if Trump pulls off a meeting with Mullah Omar and starts talking about what a "smart and strong" leader Mullah Omar is...will you dismiss his brutality the same way you are right now with Kim?

Quit being hysterical.  No one here is saying we should start a nuclear war.  That's a just a BS talking point from the defend Trump at all costs crowd designed to dissuade serious discussion about this.

It's another verse of "If you don't support Trump, you support Hillary."  Just in a different key this time.

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Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
« Reply #560 on: June 13, 2018, 09:49:10 AM »
It's gives North Korea a nice big propaganda win and lets Kim go back to Pyongyang crowing about how he got the U.S. to fold on an issue they've resisted for decades.


Which they've already reported in their state media.

Most Western observers have said the deal appears to include significant concessions from the US while including no new commitments from North Korea nor details on how denuclearisation could be achieved.

KCNA has focused on those elements as a great breakthrough for North Korea.

"Trump expressed his intention to halt US-South Korea joint military exercises, offer security guarantees to the North and lift sanctions against it along with advance in improving the mutual relationship through dialogue and negotiation," it said.


https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-asia-44464236
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Offline Sanguine

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Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
« Reply #561 on: June 13, 2018, 09:49:16 AM »
@Sanguine he's trying to play the moral equivalence card.  Using the red herring of "North Korea isn't as bad as Daesh (ISIS)" as a defence for Trump now saying glowing things about a brutal despot.

Thanks, TRG.  I was being slow I guess.
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Offline Concerned

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Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
« Reply #562 on: June 13, 2018, 09:49:18 AM »
You can't read someone's mind.

@Concerned  brought up human rights. The Trump detractors seem to comment on matters often when they think they can criticize the administration.  Such seem to be disingenuous arguments.

I didn't initially bring up human rights, but I did respond to someone who did with some statistics about North Korean "concentration camps" (their word) and a book recommendation about what life in those prison camps are really like.

@TomSea
I adore facts and data and abhor lies and liars.

Offline txradioguy

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Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
« Reply #563 on: June 13, 2018, 09:49:30 AM »
You can't read someone's mind.

You're an open book.  It doesn't take mind reading to see what you're trying to do.

Quote
@Concerned  brought up human rights. The Trump detractors seem to comment on matters often when they think they can criticize the administration.  Such seem to be disingenuous arguments.

And you're the one being disingenuous by defending Trump talking to one of the biggest human rights violators in the world by saying "well...ISIS is worse".

That's such a simplistic and simpleton knee jerk response it boggles the mind.

Tell me...which country in the middle east has ISIS established a recognized government in?

You're comparing a nebulous terrorist organization to the leader of a country.

 **nononono*
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

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Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
« Reply #564 on: June 13, 2018, 09:52:08 AM »
OK, I'm out of this thread.  Neither opposing side here knows what is going to happen, or really even what has happened, but that doesn't keep them from arguing from the few crumbs of knowledge that they have.  Endless bickering over what you don't know.  Ain't got time for that.

@Sanguine

I'm hanging around in the hope that someone will finally regale me with all the success stories of previous presidents attempting to untie the Korean knot. 

Offline driftdiver

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Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
« Reply #565 on: June 13, 2018, 09:53:12 AM »
So typical. I criticize POTUS and AT shows up to criticize me.  I really don't understand the emotional investment and appearance that they take a criticism of POTUS as a personal insult.

Thjs was not a press release. It was (another) unforced Twit up.  There are good ways to say that the meeting was positive without resorting to crazy hyperbole.

@RoosGirl
You compare Trumps statement to an invitation to vacay in NK and then complain about hyperbole?


 :silly: :silly: :silly: :silly:
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Offline driftdiver

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Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
« Reply #566 on: June 13, 2018, 09:54:55 AM »
No it isn't.  It's trying to rationalize being nice to an evil POS just because he gave you a photo op.

So if Trump pulls off a meeting with Mullah Omar and starts talking about what a "smart and strong" leader Mullah Omar is...will you dismiss his brutality the same way you are right now with Kim?

Quit being hysterical.  No one here is saying we should start a nuclear war.  That's a just a BS talking point from the defend Trump at all costs crowd designed to dissuade serious discussion about this.

@txradioguy
Oh BS, 6 months ago everyone thought either Trump was gonna launch on NK or they were gonna launch on us.   Face it, the summit was a good thing and all your whining doesn't change that fact.
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Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
« Reply #567 on: June 13, 2018, 09:56:51 AM »
@Sanguine

I'm hanging around in the hope that someone will finally regale me with all the success stories of previous presidents attempting to untie the Korean knot.

There aren't any.  Zero.  And there's a pretty good chance this will end up exactly the same.

But there is absolutely zero harm in trying -- that accident at the NK test site may have created an opportunity that hasn't previously existed.

Offline RoosGirl

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Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
« Reply #568 on: June 13, 2018, 09:57:37 AM »
@RoosGirl
You compare Trumps statement to an invitation to vacay in NK and then complain about hyperbole?


 :silly: :silly: :silly: :silly:

I didn't compare it to anything.  That was sarcasm.  I forgot you had no sense of humor, I guess I should have explained in further detail.

Offline TomSea

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Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
« Reply #569 on: June 13, 2018, 09:58:01 AM »
Quote
Still Confused about the Trump-Kim Summit? 12 Pressing Questions, Answered
Bloomberg

What’s the best-case and worst-case scenario we can hope for from the Trump-Kim commitment? And how can anyone be sure that North Korea is really denuclearizing? Well, for starters, the two sides would need to establish what denuclearization means.

The historic meeting of the two world leaders in Singapore on Tuesday left many open questions. Bloomberg hosted a live chat about the Trump-Kim summit on the LINE messaging app, where people tuned in to have their questions answers by editors. Below is an abridged transcript.

Between Donald Trump and Kim Jong Un, who got the better deal?

Read more at: http://fortune.com/2018/06/13/trump-kim-north-korea-summit-questions-answered/

Oceander

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Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
« Reply #570 on: June 13, 2018, 09:58:16 AM »
Yeah Trump is known for following protocol.  /s

For years people have bitched about ineffective politicians and diplomats, along comes a guy who ignores those conventions but get things done.  Then you cry about his methods.



He hasn’t gotten anything done!

Except now he’s nominated for the Nobel peace prize - just like Obastard.

Online Bigun

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Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
« Reply #571 on: June 13, 2018, 10:00:05 AM »
There aren't any.  Zero.  And there's a pretty good chance this will end up exactly the same.

But there is absolutely zero harm in trying -- that accident at the NK test site may have created an opportunity that hasn't previously existed.

That's what I thought! But we have to do our best to take down the guy who is at least trying to exploit an opportunity /s

Offline driftdiver

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Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
« Reply #572 on: June 13, 2018, 10:01:10 AM »
I didn't compare it to anything.  That was sarcasm.  I forgot you had no sense of humor, I guess I should have explained in further detail.

@RoosGirl
Guess you don't like being poked any more than I do.  hmmmm
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Offline driftdiver

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Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
« Reply #573 on: June 13, 2018, 10:02:17 AM »
That's what I thought! But we have to do our best to take down the guy who is at least trying to exploit an opportunity /s

Seems that way.
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Online edpc

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Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
« Reply #574 on: June 13, 2018, 10:04:09 AM »
I'm hanging around in the hope that someone will finally regale me with all the success stories of previous presidents attempting to untie the Korean knot.


Would a cameo by Dorothy Gale count towards a regale?


(I'm going to miss you most of all, Scarecrow ....)
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.


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