Author Topic: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD  (Read 34161 times)

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Offline driftdiver

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Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
« Reply #725 on: June 14, 2018, 04:23:10 pm »
...and we got stupid and distanced ourselves from KSA.

Yeah distancing ourselves from the leader of the caliphate movement.  Also the place where the radical version of Islam was revived.

How silly
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Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
« Reply #726 on: June 14, 2018, 04:27:31 pm »
Reminds me of Obama's Iran proclamation.

http://www.inspiretochangeworld.com/2015/09/obama-admin-declares-iran-and-hezbollah-no-longer-terrorist-threats/

Well, isn't there a rather large difference between Obama's statement, and Trump's?

Obama was touting an actual, completed deal that gave Iran access to over $100B dollars with which to finance WMD's and terrorism in exchange for what amounts to a 10 year moratorium with inadequate verification.

Trump isn't talking about a completed deal, and has given up nothing of tangible value.  If he really thought that what Kim has said/done so far was actually enough, then he'd be ordering U.S. troops to leave the country, asking Congress to lift sanctions immediately, etc..  He hasn't done any of that.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2018, 04:29:58 pm by Maj. Bill Martin »

Offline INVAR

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Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
« Reply #727 on: June 14, 2018, 04:32:50 pm »
Trump isn't talking about a completed deal, and has given up nothing of tangible value.

"there is no longer a nuclear threat from North Korea" - Donald J. Trump 06-13-18

Sounds like a completed deal to me.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline TomSea

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Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
« Reply #728 on: June 14, 2018, 04:39:05 pm »
http://www.inspiretochangeworld.com/

That website publishes some stories; it looks like a lot of those websites that just disperse Russian or even Iranian propaganda like the Duran, Moon over Alabama or even Zero Hedge. Check some of the headlines on page one.

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
« Reply #729 on: June 14, 2018, 04:42:14 pm »
"there is no longer a nuclear threat from North Korea" - Donald J. Trump 06-13-18

Sounds like a completed deal to me.


In a completed deal, each side gets something of tangible value.  In this case, the tangible things Kim wants are the ending of economic sanctions and embargoes, and eventually the withdrawal of U.S. troops from Korea.  He's gotten neither of those things.

So if you think this is a "completed deal", then Kim hasn't gotten either of the major things he wanted.

I know you hate the guy, but just try to step back for a moment and consider the possibility (however remote) that Trump actually knows what he is doing.  If you start with that, then what he's doing with the statements you are pointing to is trying to tie Kim publicly to the positions he took during negotiations.  Trump is setting him (and us) up for one of two results:

1) a good, solid deal that is great for the U.S., or

2) no deal, but the moral/political high ground position where he went the extra mile to be conciliatory, friendly, and non-aggressive, but even that approach was met with lies and betrayal by Kim.  This latter option strengthens anything we want to do moving forward in terms of bringing heat on NK.  It also removes the last counter-arguments against not using military force to end Kim's ability to strike the U.S. with nukes.  Trump will legitimately be able to say that he offered every possible assurance to NK that we were not threatening him, were not going to try to destabilize or disrupt his regime, etc..  And that despite the entire world saying that Trump was being too nice, Kim still rejected it.

He's forcing Kim into a position where he either follows through, or offends and betrays the leader of the most powerful country in the world, who is not afraid to use military force.  By publicly saying how great Kim is, he makes Kim look like an even bigger turd if he doesn't follow through.

From the perspective of professional negotiations, this is sound.

ETA:  I should add this:  People should be getting a bit more nervous about how this increases the possibility that we will be engaging in military action.  Trump has set himself up -- I believe deliberately -- to be the aggrieved, insulted party if Kim doesn't follow through.  If this attempt fails, then I don't think Trump will stop at just threats next time.

He is boxing Kim in, and the press and pundits haven't yet figured that out.  But this approach reeks of Mattis and Kelly.  Kill them with kindness, and if that doesn't work, wipe them out.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2018, 06:47:04 pm by Maj. Bill Martin »

Offline aligncare

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Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
« Reply #730 on: June 14, 2018, 05:33:36 pm »
“...consider the possibility (however remote) that Trump actually knows what he is doing.”

In NYC, to get his skyscrapers green lighted and completed, Donald Trump has had to negotiate with some pretty shady, corrupt, bad actors. Oh, and the mob, too.  :laugh:
« Last Edit: June 14, 2018, 05:43:17 pm by aligncare »

Offline thackney

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Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
« Reply #731 on: June 14, 2018, 05:36:44 pm »
...ETA:  I should add this:  People should be getting a bit more nervous about how this increases the possibility that we will be engaging in military action.  Trump has set himself up -- I believe deliberately -- to be the aggrieved, insulted party if Kim doesn't follow through.  If this attempt fails, then I don't think Trump will stop at just threats next time.

He is boxing Kim in, and the press and pundits haven't yet figured that out.  But this approach reeks of Pompeo, Mattis, etc..  Kill them with kindness, and if that doesn't work, wipe them out.

I agree with this assessment.  There will be no reasonable ground to claim we should have tried more diplomacy.
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Offline INVAR

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Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
« Reply #732 on: June 14, 2018, 05:43:58 pm »
I know you hate the guy,

No Bill, I don't 'hate' the guy.  I regard him in a similar light as I did Bush II and Obama; a sad travesty.  Trump does provide more hilarious fodder than either of the two previous buffoons in the office.   I really do think Trump is more about self image and marketing than substance to serve as Administrator.

I'm actually more interested in the zeitgeist and the mass movement of Trump supporters in the country.  They have more of an immediate impact on me and mine than anything coming from Trump himself.

but just try to step back for a moment and consider the possibility (however remote) that Trump actually knows what he is doing.  If you start with that, then what he's doing with the statements you are pointing to is trying to tie Kim publicly to the positions he took during negotiations. 

Trump has not given me any reason to consider that he knows what he is doing.  His handling of the budget here at home with detractors in his own party has not engendered itself to afford him such grace.

More importantly Bill, I am not interested in analyzing the minutae and strategies imputed to Trump's ability to do underwater 12th dimensional chess by armchair internet commanders. While your suppositions can be rightly regarded as good hypothetical analysis, I think its ridiculous and stupid to to cheerlead this deal as a 'success' when we have ZERO verification that anything at all has been accomplished except getting the world to talk about them and heralding them as peace brokers up for prizes from Norway.  This has the feel of promoting image over substance to me, having experienced 16 years of that from the last two Democrats occupying the White House. Yes, call me cynical, but it's a learned mindset when looking at Washington.

If in the months ahead, Inspectors are allowed in to verify that the Norks are actually dismantling their nuke program (as they once promised they would do with Clinton for lots of cash we gave them that they of course reneged on), then Trump gets a win and a deserved acknowledgement of achievement.  Handing him a participation trophy is absurd.  I'm more irritated that the very people who would have been critical of the drones and the media efforts to hand Obama a participation trophy for the Iran deal are now the very people demanding everyone give Trump one along with a worthless prize from Norway.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline thackney

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Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
« Reply #733 on: June 14, 2018, 05:46:16 pm »
...I really do think Trump is more about self image and marketing than substance to serve as Administrator....

How can you possibly think that of a WWE Hall of Famer?
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Offline guitar4jesus

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Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
« Reply #734 on: June 14, 2018, 06:30:12 pm »
In NYC, to get his skyscrapers green lighted and completed, Donald Trump has had to negotiate with some pretty shady, corrupt, bad actors.

He was one of them.

Offline TomSea

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Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
« Reply #735 on: June 14, 2018, 06:36:51 pm »
"there is no longer a nuclear threat from North Korea" - Donald J. Trump 06-13-18

Sounds like a completed deal to me.

Dishonest argument again, I'd urge people not to be taking things out of context, I looked up full articles on this. Trump said many other things. More proof of the "out to get Trump" crowd.

Offline TomSea

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Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
« Reply #736 on: June 14, 2018, 06:37:43 pm »
“...consider the possibility (however remote) that Trump actually knows what he is doing.”

I don't know who said this but it breaks my heart, that they don't see ISIS working full force in the ME. Yes, relevant.

Offline RoosGirl

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Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
« Reply #737 on: June 14, 2018, 06:53:25 pm »
“...consider the possibility (however remote) that Trump actually knows what he is doing.”

In NYC, to get his skyscrapers green lighted and completed, Donald Trump has had to negotiate with some pretty shady, corrupt, bad actors. Oh, and the mob, too.  :laugh:

He bribed them, didn't he?

Offline txradioguy

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Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
« Reply #738 on: June 14, 2018, 06:57:23 pm »
Dishonest argument again, I'd urge people not to be taking things out of context, I looked up full articles on this. Trump said many other things. More proof of the "out to get Trump" crowd.

How is taking something he said in a tweet from his own twitter account taken out of context?  Please explain how using direct quotes is a dishonest argument?
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Offline INVAR

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Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
« Reply #739 on: June 14, 2018, 07:02:45 pm »
Dishonest argument again, I'd urge people not to be taking things out of context, I looked up full articles on this. Trump said many other things. More proof of the "out to get Trump" crowd.

Hey Genius, before making yourself a complete ass once again, you might have wanted to read his entire Tweet that prompted the commentary before commenting:



How is taking something he said in a tweet from his own twitter account taken out of context?  Please explain how using direct quotes is a dishonest argument?

Because it is not genuflecting and praising Trump to his satisfaction.  That is why he asserts it is a 'dishonest argument'.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2018, 07:04:33 pm by INVAR »
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline DCPatriot

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Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
« Reply #740 on: June 14, 2018, 07:15:33 pm »
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"Journalism is about covering the news.  With a pillow.  Until it stops moving."    - David Burge (Iowahawk)

"It was only a sunny smile, and little it cost in the giving, but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living" F. Scott Fitzgerald

Offline txradioguy

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Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
« Reply #741 on: June 14, 2018, 07:19:35 pm »

Actually he's breaking even right now...not really winning...but not losing either.  Which is actually better than most would have expected at this point given the current political climate in America.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline DCPatriot

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Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
« Reply #742 on: June 14, 2018, 07:19:50 pm »
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"Journalism is about covering the news.  With a pillow.  Until it stops moving."    - David Burge (Iowahawk)

"It was only a sunny smile, and little it cost in the giving, but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living" F. Scott Fitzgerald

Offline DCPatriot

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Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
« Reply #743 on: June 14, 2018, 07:22:12 pm »
Actually he's breaking even right now...not really winning...but not losing either.  Which is actually better than most would have expected at this point given the current political climate in America.

Spit it out!   Keep trying....don't give up...you can do it!


ROFL!   :laugh:
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"Journalism is about covering the news.  With a pillow.  Until it stops moving."    - David Burge (Iowahawk)

"It was only a sunny smile, and little it cost in the giving, but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living" F. Scott Fitzgerald

Offline txradioguy

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The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline txradioguy

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Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
« Reply #745 on: June 14, 2018, 07:23:23 pm »
Spit it out!   Keep trying....don't give up...you can do it!


ROFL!   :laugh:

I'm not the one in need of spitting anything out.

Just sayin...
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline DCPatriot

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Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
« Reply #746 on: June 14, 2018, 07:32:01 pm »
I'm not the one in need of spitting anything out.

Just sayin...

Bullshit.

"He's not winning.   Okay, he's not losing, either.   He's in a holding pattern."

<NOPE>
« Last Edit: June 14, 2018, 07:39:48 pm by MOD3 »
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"Journalism is about covering the news.  With a pillow.  Until it stops moving."    - David Burge (Iowahawk)

"It was only a sunny smile, and little it cost in the giving, but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living" F. Scott Fitzgerald

Offline txradioguy

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Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
« Reply #747 on: June 14, 2018, 07:44:03 pm »
Bullshit.

"He's not winning.   Okay, he's not losing, either.   He's in a holding pattern."

<NOPE>

I said he's at .500  for a president at this stage in his Presidency...or any presidency for that matter is pretty good.

Better take a look in the mirror DCP....what is truly pathetic is your Idolism of the man and everything he does and your unwillingness or inability to ever admit he's fallible and has made mistakes.

Pathetic is taking someone who was praising Trump and ripping them to shreds over the lack of use of the prefix Mr. when referring to Trump.

Your refusal to let anyone praise as well as criticize Trump without feeling the need to jump in and personally attack them is what is pathetic around here.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2018, 08:45:15 pm by MOD3 »
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline aligncare

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Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
« Reply #748 on: June 14, 2018, 08:22:24 pm »
As beloved by the people as Obama was, as uncritical of Obama as congress was, as glowing and positive was the media coverage of Obama, as revered by Hollywood as Obama was, Trump’s approval numbers are higher now than those of Obama’s at this same stage of his presidency.

There’s always that.

Offline INVAR

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Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
« Reply #749 on: June 14, 2018, 08:23:44 pm »
@MOD3

Some animals are more equal than others, aren't they?   *****rollingeyes*****

He did not say you were pathetic.  He said your behavior was.

Big difference.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775