USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD

[driftdiver]

More on the "abducted" Japanese in article.

Nice little banner from: https://asiancorrespondent.com/topic/trump-kim-summit/  (Asian Correspondent)

@TomSea
Japan should approach this with caution.  Considering Japan abducted Korean girls before and during WWII and used them as sex slaves.   Some of those women are still alive and would be happy to speak about it.

[driftdiver]

 

@corbe
YOu can put me on ignore if you don't like it.

[driftdiver]

I don't understand what anyone believes would have been accomplished by bringing up human rights to Kim, other than virtue signalling.

We're trying to convince the guy we're no threat to his regime if he gives up nukes.  So how does sending a message that he better fix his human rights record or else further than goal?

Trump is kissing Kim's keister with false flattery.  That's because he knows that words are cheap, cost nothing, and if you can get what you want by doing it, you do it ten times out of ten.   

@Maj. Bill Martin  No matter what happened the same people were still going to find fault.   Foxnews was saying this morning that many who oppose Trump were hoping the summit would be a complete failure.  Instead when it seemed to accomplish what was intended they had to find fault in other areas.  I don't understand why they are so invested but it certainly seems to be an emotional position and not based on policies.

I pray for peace and an end to the Korean war and suffering there.  It won't happen overnight but even slow progress is a great alternative to NK working on nukes with ISIS and Iran.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

@Maj. Bill Martin  No matter what happened the same people were still going to find fault.   Foxnews was saying this morning that many who oppose Trump were hoping the summit would be a complete failure.  Instead when it seemed to accomplish what was intended they had to find fault in other areas.  I don't understand why they are so invested but it certainly seems to be an emotional position and not based on policies.

I pray for peace and an end to the Korean war and suffering there.  It won't happen overnight but even slow progress is a great alternative to NK working on nukes with ISIS and Iran.

I honestly think the biggest problem here is that too many of these people don't know what happens in real negotiations, in the real world.  They're too used to measuring these things by "optics", so they clutch their pearls when Trump flatters Kim.  What they don't understand is that those words cost nothing, and that sometimes, the guy on the other side of the table needs some sort of emotional validation or flattery before he'll move.  So, you give it a shot.  If it works, great.  If it doesn't...you go back to being an a-hole.

People are acting like Trump actually gave Kim something that matters.  He didn't.

[Concerned]

I don't understand what anyone believes would have been accomplished by bringing up human rights to Kim, other than virtue signalling.

We're trying to convince the guy we're no threat to his regime if he gives up nukes.  So how does sending a message that he better fix his human rights record or else further that goal?

Trump is kissing Kim's keister with false flattery.  That's because he knows that words are cheap, cost nothing, and if you can get what you want by doing it, you do it ten times out of ten.   

If the President doesn’t want to raise human rights during these negotiations, that’s his prerogative.  What I’m not fine with is the President of the United States saying things he knows are false (“false flattery”) in an attempt to get what he wants.  I think it just further degrades Trump’s credibility to publicly say that Kim loves his people when he’s starving them, torturing US citizens, publicly executing his own relatives, and holding 100+K people in political prison camps. 

Words may be cheap but the constant lying, misdirections, and false statements do cost something:  the credibility of the President of the United States.  I want to believe what my President says, but with this guy, he just makes that impossible. 

[Maj. Bill Martin]

If the President doesn’t want to raise human rights during these negotiations, that’s his prerogative.  What I’m not fine with is the President of the United States saying things he knows are false (“false flattery”) in an attempt to get what he wants.

Well, there's our difference.  I think the end goal of the denuclearization of North Korea is so desireable that a bit of disingenuous butt-kissing along the way doesn't bother me in the least.  Getting the deal itself is far more important.

But that's just me.  Apparently, others feel differently.

[driftdiver]

I honestly think the biggest problem here is that too many of these people don't know what happens in real negotiations, in the real world.  They're too used to measuring these things by "optics", so they clutch their pearls when Trump flatters Kim.  What they don't understand is that those words cost nothing, and that sometimes, the guy on the other side of the table needs some sort of emotional validation or flattery before he'll move.  So, you give it a shot.  If it works, great.  If it doesn't...you go back to being an a-hole.

People are acting like Trump actually gave Kim something that matters.  He didn't.

Well said

[Concerned]

Well, there's our difference.  I think the end goal of the denuclearization of North Korea is so desireable that a bit of butt-kissing along the way doesn't bother me in the least.  Getting the deal itself is far more important.

But that's just me.  Apparently, others feel differently.

It's possible to butt-kiss without outright lying.  At least for honest people it is.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

It's possible to butt-kiss without outright lying.  At least for honest people it is.

Again, I have no issue with saying something dishonest as part of negotiations with a scumbag if it gets me a deal that is worth it.

[Jazzhead]

Well, there's our difference.  I think the end goal of the denuclearization of North Korea is so desireable that a bit of butt-kissing along the way doesn't bother me in the least.  Getting the deal itself is far more important.

But that's just me.  Apparently, others feel differently.

If Kim responds to flattery, then flatter away.   Trump didn't want the Korea issue to be front and center on his plate.   It should have been addressed years ago.   Now there's no more time to kick the can - the NORKs have the nukes and the means to deliver them to our doorstep.   

Kiss his ass, Mr. President, or kick it.  Either way, it is despicable to hear his critics rooting for him to fail.   

[musiclady]

If the President doesn’t want to raise human rights during these negotiations, that’s his prerogative.  What I’m not fine with is the President of the United States saying things he knows are false (“false flattery”) in an attempt to get what he wants.  I think it just further degrades Trump’s credibility to publicly say that Kim loves his people when he’s starving them, torturing US citizens, publicly executing his own relatives, and holding 100+K people in political prison camps. 

Words may be cheap but the constant lying, misdirections, and false statements do cost something:  the credibility of the President of the United States.  I want to believe what my President says, but with this guy, he just makes that impossible.

That's the problem with electing a guy who has a long history of lying about everything.

Apparently some have the ability to pretend his character is not deeply flawed in the truth-telling department, but that to me, is naivte.   He is who he is, whether what he's saying is trivial, or extremely important (like now).

I would love to be hopeful that these negotiations mean something, but the completely madness and depraved cruelty of Kim and the lack of honesty in Trump make that impossible.

[DCPatriot]

[musiclady]

People who don't trust people who lie about everything are not 'liberals.'

People who don't trust maniacal, evil dictators like Kim are not liberals either.....

[Maj. Bill Martin]

People who don't trust people who lie about everything are not 'liberals.'

People who don't trust maniacal, evil dictators like Kim are not liberals either.....

Trust has nothing to do with any of this, on either side.

[musiclady]

Trust has nothing to do with any of this, on either side.

While I profoundly disagree with your statement, it is not directly related to my refutation of the claim that those who don't love or trust Trump are 'liberals,'

[INVAR]

Words may be cheap but the constant lying, misdirections, and false statements do cost something:  the credibility of the President of the United States.  I want to believe what my President says, but with this guy, he just makes that impossible.

Well, I find Trump's declaration that there is no longer a nuclear threat from North Korea to be yet another impossible incredibility - made when we have ZERO verification beyond his words.

Trump is at best channelling Obama.

[driftdiver]

Again, I have no issue with saying something dishonest as part of negotiations with a scumbag if it gets me a deal that is worth it.

@Maj. Bill Martin
What did Trump say that was dishonest regarding the Summit?

His tweet that the threat of nuclear war is gone?   For now it appears to be largely gone from NK.  Perhaps a bit premature but then we don't know what else is going on.   Do they still have the capability?   Probably, but then so does Pakistan.  Do we worry about a nuclear attack from Pakistan on a daily basis like many have been from NK?

[ABX]

Well, I find Trump's declaration that there is no longer a nuclear threat from North Korea to be yet another impossible incredibility - made when we have ZERO verification beyond his words.

Trump is at best channelling Obama.

Reminds me of Obama's Iran proclamation.

http://www.inspiretochangeworld.com/2015/09/obama-admin-declares-iran-and-hezbollah-no-longer-terrorist-threats/

[ABX]

..and from good old Bill Clinton...

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2017/08/09/that-time-bill-clinton-said-north-korea-will-dismantle-its-nuke-program-n1981099

[INVAR]

Reminds me of Obama's Iran proclamation.

http://www.inspiretochangeworld.com/2015/09/obama-admin-declares-iran-and-hezbollah-no-longer-terrorist-threats/

EXACTLY!!!

For me, the issue on this board is not that Trump needs to be criticized for the effort - but that his rabid supported are hypocrites because they rightfully bashed Obama for similar statements over the Iran "deal", but now because it's Trump - everyone must support the effort.

To declare that "there is no longer a nuclear threat from North Korea" because of a handshake in front of the cameras is as absurd as Obama saying Iran is no longer a terror threat after his 'deal'.

It is disconcerting to watch a people who not long ago were outraged when Obama's regime pulled all their propaganda crap over the Iran deal, suddenly sound just like Obama's drones singing the hosannas and dreaming of Nobel prizes when Trump did roughly the same damn thing.

And of course while ForeverTrump® are crowing about the 'framework' that Trump has established with North Korea - some of us DO REMEMBER when Slick made all his empty pronouncements with the same moronic regime over there.

! No longer available

[edpc]

Do we worry about a nuclear attack from Pakistan on a daily basis like many have been from NK?

No, we worry about Pakistan, because they have an uncomfortably close relationship with some horrible groups, uphold a known nuclear proliferator as a national hero, and would be ready to assist with Saudi Arabia's desire to obtain nukes, if Iran keeps doing what everyone suspects.

[TomSea]

EXACTLY!!!

For me, the issue on this board is not that Trump needs to be criticized for the effort - but that his rabid supported are hypocrites because they rightfully bashed Obama for similar statements over the Iran "deal", but now because it's Trump - everyone must support the effort.

To declare that "there is no longer a nuclear threat from North Korea" because of a handshake in front of the cameras is as absurd as Obama saying Iran is no longer a terror threat after his 'deal'.

It is disconcerting to watch a people who not long ago were outraged when Obama's regime pulled all their propaganda crap over the Iran deal, suddenly sound just like Obama's drones singing the hosannas and dreaming of Nobel prizes when Trump did roughly the same damn thing.

And of course while ForeverTrump® are crowing about the 'framework' that Trump has established with North Korea - some of us DO REMEMBER when Slick made all his empty pronouncements with the same moronic regime over there.

! No longer available

In other words, here the forum member is going after anyone who supports Trump again.

For me, the issue on this board is not that Trump needs to be criticized for the effort - but that his rabid supported are hypocrites

Also, I doubt if there are any posts in this thread worshiping Trump over this deal in this thread. But even if one points out the truth, be ready for a rude or vulgar retort.

The analysis is shallow and without the president, we may well see terrorism at a much higher level than it is presently, we may not have seen the economy bounce back and being very productive here. Along with other measures, but I wouldn't expect honesty in the discussion.

[Suppressed]

and would be ready to assist with Saudi Arabia's desire to obtain nukes, if Iran keeps doing what everyone suspects.

...and we got stupid and distanced ourselves from KSA.

[TomSea]

Reminds me of Obama's Iran proclamation.

http://www.inspiretochangeworld.com/2015/09/obama-admin-declares-iran-and-hezbollah-no-longer-terrorist-threats/

There was no Mike Pompeo in the Obama administration. Pompeo will be in charge of the verification process.

One can call any deal, a deal with Canada or Mexico even, "reminds me of the Iran deal";  I note, some people, EU and others, are still upholding the Iran deal. So, the trial is even still out on that.

[Concerned]

There was no Mike Pompeo in the Obama administration. Pompeo will be in charge of the verification process.

One can call any deal, a deal with Canada or Mexico even, "reminds me of the Iran deal";  I note, some people, EU and others, are still upholding the Iran deal. So, the trial is even still out on that.

Pompeo is our ace in the hole IMO.  His involvement gives me some degree of confidence.   The fact that he and the Administration couldn’t get “verification” into the joint statement issued by Kim and Trump does cause me pause about whether Kim is really serious or not, but if there’s a deal to be had, I think Mike Pompeo will find it. 

At the end of the day though, I just can’t see North Korea really giving up their nuclear weapons after working for decades to get them and by having them, allowing their leader to stand side-by-side with the President of the United States.  Time will tell though, but as Pompeo said, we’re years away from major disarmament with NK.