Author Topic: This Is Why We Will Never Register Our Guns Or Cooperate With Government Mandates  (Read 19592 times)

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Offline Smokin Joe

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Thank you for the welcome!!!
I am more of a lurker than a poster. This topic is a hot button to me. I hate that when we leave the state, we have to change our habits to please the gun control nazis south of us. Need to go check reciprocity for a few states since we will be taking a short rode trip soon. Illinois will be the worst. Although, if Jazzy is from PA, maybe it will be worse. Great.
I go around Illinois. Literally.
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Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Suppressed

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Although, if Jazzy is from PA, maybe it will be worse. Great.

@threadbender
PA is very gun-friendly except in the cities, especially Philly.
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Offline Jazzhead

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Although I am also upset on the vagaries of the state gun laws I visit, in the big scheme of things, this is how it should be.

Keeping federalism strong in this country will keep this country stronger as weaker states succumb to those who have chosen freedom instead of stifling regulations.

Let California or New York lose valuable citizens who yearn for better places to live.

And that, folks, is the true conservative position.   I agree, @IsailedawayfromFR
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Offline Smokin Joe

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None of that is correct.   Civil marriage is a form of contract,  between two parties.   Full faith and credit has always included one state permitting enforcement of a contract entered into in another state.   A party married in New Jersey can move to Arkansas and be able to enforce the marriage contract, just like any other. 

Now,  Arkansas doesn't have to recognize the same rights and privileges to a civil marriage as New Jersey does.  If Arkansas doesn't let a married couple deduct the cost of home renovations on a state income tax return,  then that's the rule in Arkansas even if the deduction is available in New Jersey.   Of course, the that local law must, as per the Constitution, afford equal protection.  The deduction must be provided (or denied) to the parties to a marriage whether gay or straight. 

States (and localities) have traditionally be sovereign with respect to public security and safety issues.   If New Jersey won't allow concealed carry,  then just try to understand that there is simply no tradition of full faith and credit extended to other states to allow their citizens to travel to New Jersey with concealed weapons.

You might try to argue that reciprocity is indicated by the natural and Constitutionally-protected right to travel.  After all, that natural right lies behind why full faith and credit is extended to the enforcement of contracts, including marriage contracts.  But again,  public security and safety are traditionally local concerns,  up to local rules and local law enforcement.  You come to New Jersey,  you play by its rules.   You observe its speed limits, and you also obey its laws when carrying, or not carrying, a gun. 

Capiche? 

Caipche? WTF do you think you are some wannabe Soprano?


I gotta contract for you, the ultimate contract. It begins We, The People.....

What about that contract?

Nevermind the strawmen of legitimately local issues. If the Government can impose upon all States the requirement to allow perversion, Then the card I carry which says I have been background checked and found to be of good enough character to carry a lethal weapon should indicate that in all jurisdictions, and be a valid permit. If my Driver's License is accepted in states which have subtly different rules concerning things like "right turn on red", then my CCW permit should also be accepted.
Quote
That's an excellent policy.  By all means, stay away.  You'd make a poor neighbor with that kind of childish and selfish attitude.  And, as far as the Constitutional and federalism goes, it is you that is fundamentally wrong.
Selfish attitude? YES! Absolutely!

I am a selfish lout who wishes to secure the blessings of Liberty for himself, his family, his neighbors and his prosperity from those who would twist natural rights into wrongs and warp the even the most basic human relationships, those who call good evil and evil good. Bad neighbor? For the likes of you, certainly.
I gladly will refuse to spend any money in those jurisdictions which would deny me or mine our Constitutionally enumerated and God-Given Rights, especially while creating Rights for perversions out of thin air. I must note those jurisdictions aren't exactly flush with prosperity, but don't come here, don't flee in this direction, instead wallow in the cesspit you have created.
And if, by accident I must tread there I will shake the dust from my feet when I leave.
I would not enter a war zone without the means to defend myself, much less a town that has more murders on a Saturday morning than the entire State I live in has in a year. (There's a reason for that, but Reason has left the jurisdictions we speak of.)
Either my license to carry a firearm has full faith and credit, or your perverted pals' little piece of paper means nothing legally.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Cyber Liberty

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And that, folks, is the true conservative position.   I agree, @IsailedawayfromFR

On balance, I agree too, @Jazzhead

While mandated CCW reciprocity would be convenient, it rubs the Federalist in me the wrong way.  I am also suspicious it would become a vehicle to strip the citizens of all states of Constitutional Carry by catering to the worst states, like CA and IL.  I don't expect what works in my state to work in all others.  BTW, even though we have Constitutional Carry in AZ, we also offer CCWs so permit holders can get that reciprocity.  Most states already offer reciprocity for AZ CCWs.  If I had a CCW, it would be honored in PA.

https://www.usacarry.com/concealed_carry_permit_reciprocity_maps.html
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Offline INVAR

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Of course, the that local law must, as per the Constitution, afford equal protection.  The deduction must be provided (or denied) to the parties to a marriage whether gay or straight.

It's going to be a real fun to watch that play out with the perverts that are now demanding 'equal protection' to marry their pets and worse. 

You'd make a poor neighbor with that kind of childish and selfish attitude. 

You make a piss-poor American, period.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline Jazzhead

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On balance, I agree too, @Jazzhead

While mandated CCW reciprocity would be convenient, it rubs the Federalist in me the wrong way.

Thanks, @Cyber Liberty .   To me, one of the defining characteristics of American conservatism is respect for federalism, which in turn means respect for state sovereignty.   
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Offline INVAR

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To me, one of the defining characteristics of American conservatism is respect for federalism, which in turn means respect for state sovereignty.

Unless the state overwhelmingly passes a law that says they will only recognize marriage when defined between one man and one woman.  Then Federalism no longer matters.  Then we have tyrants like you using the courts and government to tell a sovereign state that they have to recognize homosexual marriage and it's citizens can be forced to bake the damn cake or be punished for refusing to accept homosexuality as good and normal.

You have zero respect for federalism when it comes to shoving your Leftist bullshit on sovereign states that do not want it.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline Smokin Joe

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Thanks, @Cyber Liberty .   To me, one of the defining characteristics of American conservatism is respect for federalism, which in turn means respect for state sovereignty.
Unless the State Constitution states that Marriage is only between one man and one woman. Like Alabama's did, and Roy Moore upheld.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline roamer_1

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I go around Illinois. Literally.

Aw, southern parts of it ain't so bad... If it weren't for falling in the river, it'd be hard to tell where Illinois ends and Missouri begins... If it weren't for Springfield and Chicago...

Offline Smokin Joe

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Aw, southern parts of it ain't so bad... If it weren't for falling in the river, it'd be hard to tell where Illinois ends and Missouri begins... If it weren't for Springfield and Chicago...
Michigan is pretty. Across the UP, across the bridge, and down the middle finger to the Ohio Turnpike, then East....to visit kinfolk out that way.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline roamer_1

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Michigan is pretty. Across the UP, across the bridge, and down the middle finger to the Ohio Turnpike, then East....to visit kinfolk out that way.

LOL! Point taken... But then you miss Indiana.

Farthest east I need to go for kin is Michigan and Tennessee... Most others are in Colorado, Kansas, Missouri, and Mississippi... So for me, If I take the high line, I will be turning south after DesMoines and before Chicago.

Well, that ain't right. I prolly oughta stop and see my kin IN Chicago... Then over to Michigan, then Tennessee, then the most of em in Mississippi, Missouri, and Kansas, and then take a right at the Rockies and come on home. The new missus add to that, though most her kin are in the Missouri Ozarks... but she adds points south toward Texas, which suits me fine.


Offline Cyber Liberty

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Michigan is pretty. Across the UP, across the bridge, and down the middle finger to the Ohio Turnpike, then East....to visit kinfolk out that way.

If you're hitting the OH Turnpike that way, you must be coming down I-75 to Toledo?  Or is it via Lansing and I-69?
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Offline Axeslinger

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Hey @Jazzhead

You worked up the guts to volunteer yet?  Or are you still just another tyrant wannabe? 

NO ONE HERE IS BUYING WHAT YOU’RE SELLING.  Peddle it elsewhere statist.

Riddle me this:

Do you believe that any law passed by your “community” is inherently and unquestioningly valid?

Your comments elsewhere indicate yes.

Additionally, your own comments elsewhere indicate that as such, you are perfectly willing to fully empower the government, at the point OF A GUN, to enforce the law passed by your “community”.

You have also intimated that we citizens are forbidden from resisting said laws.

Perhaps I shouldnt have said forbidden...probably should have used a word you’re more familiar with: verboten...because you would have made one hell of a Nazi.  You are an enemy of the people and deserve ALL of the derision, ridicule and lack of respect we can muster.  May posterity forget you were our countryman

@INVAR @txradioguy @Cyber Liberty

Hmmm...I notice that @Jazzhead decided to tuck tail and run rather than make any reply...
"The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first." - Thomas Jefferson

Offline threadbender

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I go around Illinois. Literally.

It would be next to impossible unless we added a couple days to our trip! We live in SE Wisconsin. lol But, we do go around Chicago and get through Illinois as quickly as possible. The only good thing about Illinois was how easy it is to get married. lol We didn't want to have to bring a bunch of paperwork so went to Waukegan.

Offline Cyber Liberty

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@INVAR @txradioguy @Cyber Liberty

Hmmm...I notice that @Jazzhead decided to tuck tail and run rather than make any reply...

I wouldn't read too much into that...Jazz posts sporadically on weekends, I assume it's because he has a regular life......
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline RoosGirl

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Capiche?  Someone needs to tighten their necktie.

Offline Smokin Joe

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If you're hitting the OH Turnpike that way, you must be coming down I-75 to Toledo?  Or is it via Lansing and I-69?
South to Jackson, then east and south on lesser roads. Stayed in Toledo overnight.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2018, 04:19:21 am by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline To-Whose-Benefit?

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Thanks, @Cyber Liberty .   To me, one of the defining characteristics of American conservatism is respect for federalism, which in turn means respect for state sovereignty.

@Jazzhead

14th Amendment Sec 1, Clause 1.

Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

After the War of Secession, Since some folks STILL hadn't got the mssg. we straightened out that stuff with the Civil War Amendments.

1: All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.

IF States Rights were intended to be on a equal footing with Citizens Rights or Superior to Citizens Federal Rights the Opening Clause would need to state:

are Citizens of Both the United States and of the State wherein they reside.

Right off the top Clause 1 establishes the Supremacy of Federal Citizenship (and it's Protections) over State Citizenship (and it's erosion BY State Tyrannies of/infringement upon,  those Federal guarantees).

In Plain, unvarnished English, States have NO BUSINESS WHATSOEVER, and NO AUTHORITY WHATSOEVER to infringe, revoke, or otherwise limit Any Federally Guaranteed Individual Citizen's Rights.

« Last Edit: May 27, 2018, 10:31:55 am by To-Whose-Benefit? »
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In Vol 2 the weapons come out in a winner take all war on two fronts.

Vol 3 opens with the rigged murder trial of the villain in a Viking Court under Viking law to set the stage for the hero's own murder trial.

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Offline To-Whose-Benefit?

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@Jazzhead

And I am not in the slightest interested in any contrary Opinions issued as Case Law by the Courts.

Where Courts have refused to understand/uphold the Plain, Unequivocal Intent and Meaning of any of the Bill of Rights Supremacy over State Govt Regulations, their ruling is in error and in need of being overturned by SCOTUS, which, has not yet upheld in its entirety the actual Supreme Law of these United States.
My 'Viking Hunter' High Adventure Alternate History Series is FREE, ALL 3 volumes, at most ebook retailers including Ibooks, Barnes and Noble, Kobo, and more.

In Vol 2 the weapons come out in a winner take all war on two fronts.

Vol 3 opens with the rigged murder trial of the villain in a Viking Court under Viking law to set the stage for the hero's own murder trial.

http://wulfanson.blogspot.com

Offline Jazzhead

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In Plain, unvarnished English, States have NO BUSINESS WHATSOEVER, and NO AUTHORITY WHATSOEVER to infringe, revoke, or otherwise limit Any Federally Guaranteed Individual Citizen's Rights.

You are free to hold that opinion, sir, but if you do you should not call yourself a conservative.   The states have traditionally remained sovereign with respect to the safety and security of their citizens.   Guns can be registered, regulated, be made subject to safety and insurance regimes,  and their use in the public square limited or even proscribed.  That is the right of every state.   The Constitution prohibits infringement - that is, denial - of the gun right, and requires that rights subject to legal sanction be afforded due process.   Otherwise,  our federal system leaves the regulation (or non-regulation) of the gun right to the several states.   
« Last Edit: May 27, 2018, 04:11:08 pm by Jazzhead »
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Offline To-Whose-Benefit?

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@Jazzhead

I'm a Citizen.

I call myself a Conservatives as a matter of convenience, since it sometimes prevents Emo Screwheads from pulling the cork out of their own mouths and expecting to get away with;

1: Boring me.

2: Monopolizing the discussion in the hope of converting any bystanders to their way of 'Feeling' what's right and proper.
My 'Viking Hunter' High Adventure Alternate History Series is FREE, ALL 3 volumes, at most ebook retailers including Ibooks, Barnes and Noble, Kobo, and more.

In Vol 2 the weapons come out in a winner take all war on two fronts.

Vol 3 opens with the rigged murder trial of the villain in a Viking Court under Viking law to set the stage for the hero's own murder trial.

http://wulfanson.blogspot.com

Offline txradioguy

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Unless the state overwhelmingly passes a law that says they will only recognize marriage when defined between one man and one woman.  Then Federalism no longer matters.  Then we have tyrants like you using the courts and government to tell a sovereign state that they have to recognize homosexual marriage and it's citizens can be forced to bake the damn cake or be punished for refusing to accept homosexuality as good and normal.

You have zero respect for federalism when it comes to shoving your Leftist bullshit on sovereign states that do not want it.

^^^ This!
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Offline INVAR

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You are free to hold that opinion, sir, but if you do you should not call yourself a conservative.

Says the Leftist that lectures and advocates for abortion, gun control and bans, homosexuality, state imposition upon private property, taxes, and every other Leftist agenda item out there.  You have spewed it all on this board and argued for those things.

That you have the unmitigated gall to tell someone else that they should not call themselves a Conservative has the same bullshit weight as if Hillary Clinton and Barrack Obama told him he may not call himself a Conservative.


Guns can be registered, regulated, be made subject to safety and insurance regimes,  and their use in the public square limited or even proscribed.

No, they cannot.  If and when they do, such government is null and void. All it is then is a tyranny that will have to use guns to force us into compliance - and then that will be when it is time to water the tree of liberty.

The Constitution prohibits infringement - that is, denial - of the gun right

Wrong.  That is NOT what the Constitution says.  The Constitution specifically says 'The Right of the people to keep and bear ARMS, Shall Not Be Infringed.'  The right to carry, possess, own and have on our person - ARMS is an inalienable right the government has no authority to infringe upon with regulations, registration or other tyrannical schemes intended to disarm the populace.

You can argue your bullshit excuses and justifications for turning an inalienable right into a government-granted and regulated privilege to your heart's content.  All it is to us, is a declaration of evil intents towards us - and the intent to war upon us.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2018, 07:08:16 pm by INVAR »
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...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline thackney

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Welcome to GBR.

Although I am also upset on the vagaries of the state gun laws I visit, in the big scheme of things, this is how it should be.

Keeping federalism strong in this country will keep this country stronger as weaker states succumb to those who have chosen freedom instead of stifling regulations.

Let California or New York lose valuable citizens who yearn for better places to live.

I continue to agree.  I haven't seen anything that convinces me I want the federal government to enforce one states laws onto another.  Fantasies that they would expand our freedoms in doing so is only fantasy.
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