Author Topic: Judge rules New York City bar can refuse service to Trump supporter wearing MAGA hat  (Read 9100 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online Cyber Liberty

  • Coffee! Donuts! Kittens!
  • Administrator
  • ******
  • Posts: 44,687
  • We got 'im now!®
You got nothing of the kind.  The question in those cases is whether an anti-discrimination statute infringes on a businesses’ First Amendment rights.  That has no bearing on the question of whether the First Amendment by itself forces a business to do ssomething, such as tolerating political speech.

See, that's why I put in the caveat about my simple-mindedness.  I don't see the difference between the cake baker and this bar owner.  They should both be free to determine with whom they trade.  What applies to one should apply to the other equally, and the edumacation I got was that isn't how it works, that Christians are to STFU and take whatever the left-leaning legal system gives them.  They are public accommodations, while this bar is not.

Hey, maybe I'm not as stupid as I thought.
Don't call it the "Federal Government," that's an insult to the Founders.  It's a "National Government."
I will NOT comply.
                          Castillo del Cyber! ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Online Cyber Liberty

  • Coffee! Donuts! Kittens!
  • Administrator
  • ******
  • Posts: 44,687
  • We got 'im now!®
I've been away for awhile.  What's new around here?

LOL!  Nothing at all, as it turns out.  So good to see you again, Pardner.  Stop by the watering hole when you get a chance!
Don't call it the "Federal Government," that's an insult to the Founders.  It's a "National Government."
I will NOT comply.
                          Castillo del Cyber! ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline Lando Lincoln

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 12,530
LOL!  Nothing at all, as it turns out.  So good to see you again, Pardner.  Stop by the watering hole when you get a chance!

Are the donuts fresh?
For the progressive, there is very little to love about the United States. Washington, Jefferson, Madison? A bunch of rotten slaveholders, hypocrites, and cowards even when their hearts were in the right places. The Declaration of Independence? A manifesto for the propertied classes. The Constitution? An artifact of sexism and white supremacy. The sacrifices in the great wars of the 20th century? Feeding the poor and the disenfranchised into the meat-grinder of imperialism. The gifts of Carnegie, Rockefeller, Vanderbilt, Morgan, Astor? Blood money from self-aggrandizing robber barons. Nat Rev

Offline endicom

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 10,115
See, that's why I put in the caveat about my simple-mindedness.  I don't see the difference between the cake baker and this bar owner.  They should both be free to determine with whom they trade.  What applies to one should apply to the other equally, and the edumacation I got was that isn't how it works, that Christians are to STFU and take whatever the left-leaning legal system gives them.  They are public accommodations, while this bar is not.

Hey, maybe I'm not as stupid as I thought.


I believe the bar is a 'public accommodation' but not a 'public space,' or whatever is the correct terminology.

@Oceander

Online Cyber Liberty

  • Coffee! Donuts! Kittens!
  • Administrator
  • ******
  • Posts: 44,687
  • We got 'im now!®
Are the donuts fresh?

Always!  This time of day we start setting out the Happy Hour stuff, though.  Bar's open...
Don't call it the "Federal Government," that's an insult to the Founders.  It's a "National Government."
I will NOT comply.
                          Castillo del Cyber! ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Online Cyber Liberty

  • Coffee! Donuts! Kittens!
  • Administrator
  • ******
  • Posts: 44,687
  • We got 'im now!®

I believe the bar is a 'public accommodation' but not a 'public space,' or whatever is the correct terminology.

@Oceander

Whatever.  I'm still failing to grasp the essential difference between the kinds of business.   :shrug:
Don't call it the "Federal Government," that's an insult to the Founders.  It's a "National Government."
I will NOT comply.
                          Castillo del Cyber! ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline thackney

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 9,544
See, that's why I put in the caveat about my simple-mindedness.  I don't see the difference between the cake baker and this bar owner.  They should both be free to determine with whom they trade.  What applies to one should apply to the other equally, and the edumacation I got was that isn't how it works, that Christians are to STFU and take whatever the left-leaning legal system gives them.  They are public accommodations, while this bar is not.

Hey, maybe I'm not as stupid as I thought.

I do not believe this is a public accommodation issue as both store and bar would meet that description. (the custom cake work was debatable)

But politics isn't a special protected class (yet) like sexuality.  ie: basis of sex; any group which shares a common race, religion, color, or national origin; people over 40; and people with physical or mental handicaps.

https://www.archives.gov/eeo/terminology.html#p
Life is fragile, handle with prayer

Offline 240B

  • Lord of all things Orange!
  • TBR Advisory Committee
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,012
Ron White started his career with a story about being thrown out of a bar because of his hat. I too, have been thrown out a bar for wearing a hat. I was in a bar that had a bell they would ring if anyone was seen with a hat on. When the bar tender rang the bell you had to either buy a round for everyone, or you had to leave.

I am confused about why bars are so anti-hat? I don't understand their reasons. But being kicked out of a bar for wearing a hat is definitely nothing new.

Why would anyone wear a MAGA hat into a bar anyway, unless they are looking for trouble? Politics, religion, sports, and women, have caused more bar fights than anyone could count. Why court problems? There is more than enough going on in most bars to start a fight. There is no need to go in asking for it.
You cannot "COEXIST" with people who want to kill you.
If they kill their own with no conscience, there is nothing to stop them from killing you.
Rational fear and anger at vicious murderous Islamic terrorists is the same as irrational antisemitism, according to the Leftists.

Online Cyber Liberty

  • Coffee! Donuts! Kittens!
  • Administrator
  • ******
  • Posts: 44,687
  • We got 'im now!®
I do not believe this is a public accommodation issue as both store and bar would meet that description. (the custom cake work was debatable)

But politics isn't a special protected class (yet) like sexuality.  ie: basis of sex; any group which shares a common race, religion, color, or national origin; people over 40; and people with physical or mental handicaps.

https://www.archives.gov/eeo/terminology.html#p

So, then if this were a "non-gay" bar, and some guy walked in naked but for a pair of leather chaps, the bar would have to accommodate him, and can't throw him out like the guy with the MAGA hat, because "gay" is now a protected class?  I'm not disbelieving you, I'm just trying to be sure I understand the state of the Law in 21st Century America.
Don't call it the "Federal Government," that's an insult to the Founders.  It's a "National Government."
I will NOT comply.
                          Castillo del Cyber! ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline thackney

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 9,544
So, then if this were a "non-gay" bar, and some guy walked in naked but for a pair of leather chaps, the bar would have to accommodate him, and can't throw him out like the guy with the MAGA hat, because "gay" is now a protected class?  I'm not disbelieving you, I'm just trying to be sure I understand the state of the Law in 21st Century America.

It is NYC, so the naked chaps look may be okay.  It would get you thrown out of a Texas bar.  Chaps are okay, but we expect some Wranglers with them.
Life is fragile, handle with prayer

Online Cyber Liberty

  • Coffee! Donuts! Kittens!
  • Administrator
  • ******
  • Posts: 44,687
  • We got 'im now!®
Ron White started his career with a story about being thrown out of a bar because of his hat. I too, have been thrown out a bar for wearing a hat. I was in a bar that had a bell they would ring if anyone was seen with a hat on. When the bar tender rang the bell you had to either buy a round for everyone, or you had to leave.

I am confused about why bars are so anti-hat? I don't understand their reasons. But being kicked out of a bar for wearing a hat is definitely nothing new.

Why would anyone wear a MAGA hat into a bar anyway, unless they are looking for trouble? Politics, religion, sports, and women, have caused more bar fights than anyone could count. Why court problems? There is more than enough going on in most bars to start a fight. There is no need to go in asking for it.

I don't get the hat thing either.  I lived in TX for a short while, and I did DJ duty at a bar.  I can assure you that if I asked a cowboy to remove his fine cowboy hat he'd rightfully kick my ass.

I'm in agreement with the bar here, in principle.  It's a private business.  I just want to know why that same principle doesn't apply in other situations.  There appears to be a double standard at work.
Don't call it the "Federal Government," that's an insult to the Founders.  It's a "National Government."
I will NOT comply.
                          Castillo del Cyber! ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Online Cyber Liberty

  • Coffee! Donuts! Kittens!
  • Administrator
  • ******
  • Posts: 44,687
  • We got 'im now!®
It is NYC, so the naked chaps look may be okay.  It would get you thrown out of a Texas bar.  Chaps are okay, but we expect some Wranglers with them.

You have a good point.  It was the best analogy I could come up with in a pinch.
Don't call it the "Federal Government," that's an insult to the Founders.  It's a "National Government."
I will NOT comply.
                          Castillo del Cyber! ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Oceander

  • Guest
So, then if this were a "non-gay" bar, and some guy walked in naked but for a pair of leather chaps, the bar would have to accommodate him, and can't throw him out like the guy with the MAGA hat, because "gay" is now a protected class?  I'm not disbelieving you, I'm just trying to be sure I understand the state of the Law in 21st Century America.

You have to read the applicable statutes.  The law generally doesn’t exist in a vacuum or in the abstract.  And kicking someone out for not wearing appropriate attire has nothing to do with being gay, or not, so the analogy fails. 

Oceander

  • Guest
See, that's why I put in the caveat about my simple-mindedness.  I don't see the difference between the cake baker and this bar owner.  They should both be free to determine with whom they trade.  What applies to one should apply to the other equally, and the edumacation I got was that isn't how it works, that Christians are to STFU and take whatever the left-leaning legal system gives them.  They are public accommodations, while this bar is not.

Hey, maybe I'm not as stupid as I thought.

The New York statute in question does not ban discrimination against people for their political views, so there was no law that made the bar owner’s actions illegal. 

In the baker case, the statute made it illegal to refuse service to someone on the basis of sexual orientation. 

Online Cyber Liberty

  • Coffee! Donuts! Kittens!
  • Administrator
  • ******
  • Posts: 44,687
  • We got 'im now!®
The New York statute in question does not ban discrimination against people for their political views, so there was no law that made the bar owner’s actions illegal. 

In the baker case, the statute made it illegal to refuse service to someone on the basis of sexual orientation.

Thank you sincerely.  I may not agree with it, but it is what it is, until it gets changed.  My earlier analogy was imperfect, I agree, but this nails it down precisely.
Don't call it the "Federal Government," that's an insult to the Founders.  It's a "National Government."
I will NOT comply.
                          Castillo del Cyber! ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline Wingnut

  • Resident TBR Curmudgeon
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 7,660
we expect some Wranglers with them.

Wrangler Jane for me.
"I'm a man, but I changed, because I had to. Oh well."

Online Fishrrman

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 19,684
    • Fishrrman Speaks!
Geez, folks, didn't anyone read my post 11 above?
http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,313710.msg1667726.html#msg1667726

This could be a good one for that James O'Keefe guy to do a video on...

Offline Jazzhead

  • Radicalized
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 10,030

Gee, when was the last time I was on the side of @Oceander?

He, unless that's changed, is expressing a conservative view in siding with the property owner.

Of course.  And that makes it twice today the @txradioguy has protested that he's a conservative, while proving he's nothing of the sort.  A private business is free to discriminate in this context.   It's obnoxious,  but it is consistent with First Amendment's right of association.  And the MAGA-hat wearing cat is free to exercise his First Amendment right to shame this bar and try to hurt its business.   
"He was born poor, died rich, and never hurt anyone along the way"

   - Duke Ellington, upon hearing of the death of Louis Armstrong

"Not forever.  Just for now"

    - Jay Farrar

Offline Wingnut

  • Resident TBR Curmudgeon
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 7,660
Of course.  And that makes it twice today the @txradioguy has protested that he's a conservative, while proving he's nothing of the sort.  A private business is free to discriminate in this context.   It's obnoxious,  but it is consistent with First Amendment's right of association.  And the MAGA-hat wearing cat is free to exercise his First Amendment right to shame this bar and try to hurt its business.   

Bar Shaming.  Well that certainly is a new one for our SJW.
"I'm a man, but I changed, because I had to. Oh well."

Online Cyber Liberty

  • Coffee! Donuts! Kittens!
  • Administrator
  • ******
  • Posts: 44,687
  • We got 'im now!®
Bar Shaming.  Well that certainly is a new one for our SJW.

Shhh!  He's on a roll.  He's at his best when he's declaring people "non-conservative."  He knows "non-conservative" like nobody's business. :smokin:
Don't call it the "Federal Government," that's an insult to the Founders.  It's a "National Government."
I will NOT comply.
                          Castillo del Cyber! ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline txradioguy

  • Propaganda NCOIC
  • Cat Mod
  • ****
  • Posts: 18,305
  • Rule #39
Of course.  And that makes it twice today the @txradioguy has protested that he's a conservative, while proving he's nothing of the sort.  A private business is free to discriminate in this context.   It's obnoxious,  but it is consistent with First Amendment's right of association.  And the MAGA-hat wearing cat is free to exercise his First Amendment right to shame this bar and try to hurt its business.   

But let two gay people get told to leave the bar and your whole attitude would change on who was right and wrong.

You're not only a flaming Liberal...but a giant hypocrite to boot.

 *****rollingeyes*****
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Online Cyber Liberty

  • Coffee! Donuts! Kittens!
  • Administrator
  • ******
  • Posts: 44,687
  • We got 'im now!®
But let two gay people get told to leave the bar and your whole attitude would change on who was right and wrong.

You're not only a flaming Liberal...but a giant hypocrite to boot.

 *****rollingeyes*****

That's different.  Gays are a "protected class."  It's written into the laws, and has shamefully been found Constitutionally sound.  This country's gone to Hell in a handbasket since the government decided to start putting its thumb on the scales.  It's been pretty obvious since the Civil Rights Act in the 60's.
Don't call it the "Federal Government," that's an insult to the Founders.  It's a "National Government."
I will NOT comply.
                          Castillo del Cyber! ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline RoosGirl

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 16,809
Any business should be able to deny service to any person for any reason.  There, I said it.

Offline txradioguy

  • Propaganda NCOIC
  • Cat Mod
  • ****
  • Posts: 18,305
  • Rule #39
Any business should be able to deny service to any person for any reason.  There, I said it.

Soooo if a cop gets told to leave a restraunt or is refused service...the owner is still justified?

Asking for a friend.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline DCPatriot

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 37,923
  • "...and the winning number is...not yours!
I've been away for awhile.  What's new around here?

Not a damned thing, sir!   :laugh:
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"Journalism is about covering the news.  With a pillow.  Until it stops moving."    - Iowahawk

Whatever you're doing today, do it with all the confidence of a four-year-old wearing a Batman tee-shirt.


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf