FBI raids Trump lawyer's office

[XenaLee]

No, Trump is the President.  I was only addressing the point that both sides of the ET/NT divide have to admit some things before there can be any reconciliation.

And, yes, the current events give me a chill and should every liberty-loving person.

I've been  having that chill since the idiot left was endeavoring to have Bush, Cheney & Rumsfield frog-marched to prison... but ended up getting only Scooter Libby.... on yet another "process" charge.  This assault on Trump is just another leftist Marxist move... same stuff, different day....only now they're on steroids due to their hatred for Trump.   And I thought, back then, that they idiot left couldn't hate anyone more than they hated GWB.  Boy.... was I wrong about that! 

On the bright side... despite the hateful best attempts to destroy Bush, the idiot left failed.  Perhaps they're in for yet another major disappointment and epic fail here.  Hope springs.
 

[driftdiver]

I’m glad you used that analogy, because I see this as war. When war becomes necessary you must do anything to win, even to the point of “sacrificing your principles” to use a worn out phrase. To do anything less is political death.

@aligncare
It will be more than political death.  Millions will die even if this doesnt result in a shooting war, it will just take longer.

The people behind this have publicly stated the earths population needs to be cut by 75%.

[XenaLee]

IMO he's toast if he doesn't.   Its obvious the left has little concern for the rule of law and will go to any length to find a crime.  The GOPe and Dems must get rid of him otherwise it could be them going to jail.

The proverbial "damned if he does and damned if he doesn't" scenario.  One thing's for sure.... the American voters out there (like us) that know what's going on and that are watching intently.... will having something to say about things either way.   If Trump goes nuclear against the left, so should we.   He will need the support.

[INVAR]

Mostly agree.  I obviously am not one of Trump's fans, but what has taken place the past few days should give every American a chill.  Case study on what a out of control governmental agency can do when left to run amok.

I disagree with your assessment here.

The Alphabets are NOT and out-of-control agency *running amok*, doing their own thing.    They are wholly corrupted, weaponized Praetorians for the Statist Left and the Oligarchy in DC.  We have no idea how many working in them are Operatives for the Deep State/Democrat Party, who are in career positions and not elected or accountable to anyone but their masters.  You and I are NOT their masters.

I'm using the term velvet coup for a reason.

[INVAR]

I’m glad you used that analogy, because I see this as war. When war becomes necessary you must do anything to win, even to the point of “sacrificing your principles” to use a worn out phrase. To do anything less is political death.

Then there is no point fighting at all if principles are not the reason one is willing to go into combat for.

If I'm required to sacrifice my principles in order to "win", then I've won absolutely nothing at all, and have simply traded one form of despotism for another.

What you are advocating sir, by advocating we abandon principles in order to 'win', is a French Revolution styled bloodbath.

I will not be party to that.

[txradioguy]

Then there is no point fighting at all if principles are not the reason one is willing to go into combat for.

If I'm required to sacrifice my principles in order to "win", then I've won absolutely nothing at all, and have simply traded one form of despotism for another.

What you are advocating sir, by advocating we abandon principles in order to 'win', is a French Revolution styled bloodbath.

I will not be party to that.

A man who stands for nothing is will fall for anything.

[skeeter]

Then there is no point fighting at all if principles are not the reason one is willing to go into combat for.

If I'm required to sacrifice my principles in order to "win", then I've won absolutely nothing at all, and have simply traded one form of despotism for another.

What you are advocating sir, by advocating we abandon principles in order to 'win', is a French Revolution styled bloodbath.

I will not be party to that.

It was fortunate for our brand new republic, and its progeny with their principles, that the Sons of Liberty did not share your view.

[INVAR]

It was fortunate for our brand new republic, and its progeny with their principles, that the Sons of Liberty did not share your view.

Oh really?  The Sons of Liberty sacrificed their principles and went on to rape and pillage and kill redcoats just because they felt like it?

[skeeter]

Oh really?  The Sons of Liberty sacrificed their principles and went on to rape and pillage and kill redcoats just because they felt like it?

They rioted, destroyed private property, kidnapped and beat political opponents.

But not just 'because they felt like it'.

[DCPatriot]

They rioted, destroyed private property, kidnapped and beat political opponents.

But not just 'because they felt like it'.

They were defending THEIR......{{{drumroll......cymbal!!!}}}  TA-DAH.......principles.

[skeeter]

They were defending THEIR......{{{drumroll......cymbal!!!}}}  TA-DAH.......principles.

It served their end goals.

History is rife with examples of virtuous people committing less than virtuous acts in service of a higher purpose.

Its just an ugly reality.

[DCPatriot]

It served their end goals.

History is rife with examples of virtuous people committing less than virtuous acts in service of a higher purpose.

Its just an ugly reality.

Agree totally, @skeeter

...was just ribbing @INVAR who apparently won't recognize the opposing POV not giving in to their principles.

So...as some frightfully posted today...this cannot end by peaceful means.

Geez....today, some idiot in Washington, DC, put forth a bill that would allow 16 years olds the vote.

They can have a coordinated get-out-the-vote for all high-schoolers. 

[Cyber Liberty]

Agree totally, @skeeter

...was just ribbing @INVAR who apparently won't recognize the opposing POV not giving in to their principles.

So...as some frightfully posted today...this cannot end by peaceful means.

Geez....today, some idiot in Washington, DC, put forth a bill that would allow 16 years olds the vote.

They can have a coordinated get-out-the-vote for all high-schoolers.

Apparently we need high-schoolers to tell us old-ass people how to operate a Democracy.  It's like text messages.   

[DB]

It served their end goals.

History is rife with examples of virtuous people committing less than virtuous acts in service of a higher purpose.

Its just an ugly reality.

The ends justify the means is the tool that has been used throughout history to commit atrocities. It is how people end up in ovens. They thought they were virtuous in doing so, for the greater good...

That is the slippery slope to downright evil.

[INVAR]

They rioted, destroyed private property, kidnapped and beat political opponents.

But not just 'because they felt like it'.

There is a stark difference between fighting for a just-cause war based on principles of liberty against a lawless and tyrannical power, and a means-to-an-end, whatever-goes melee for punishment's sake because you hate the certain politics and beliefs, property or wealth of a people.

A French Revolution bloodbath is what comes out of that - and it is precisely why Alexis DeToqueville came here to find out why the Revolution in his country turned out so very differently that the one fought here.

Our Founders refused to surrender principles for expediency when waging a war.  Washington had requirements of his regulars to attend church when not on active duty, part of the reason was because he did not want his troops to engage in the same types of barbarism the British had hired the Hessians to perform on the Colonists.

The ends justify the means is the tool that has been used throughout history to commit atrocities. It is how people end up in ovens. They thought they were virtuous in doing so, for the greater good...

That is the slippery slope to downright evil.

BINGO.  Exactly.

[driftdiver]

The ends justify the means is the tool that has been used throughout history to commit atrocities. It is how people end up in ovens. They thought they were virtuous in doing so, for the greater good...

That is the slippery slope to downright evil.

@DB
People weren't put into the ovens of Germany under the guise that it was a bad thing for a good cause.   

No they were put in the ovens because the German people had accepted that jews were lesser and to remove them was a good thing.

[skeeter]

The ends justify the means is the tool that has been used throughout history to commit atrocities. It is how people end up in ovens. They thought they were virtuous in doing so, for the greater good...

That is the slippery slope to downright evil.

True, but it also helped win independence for oppressed peoples and wars against tyrannies.

I'm sure God's will fits in here somewhere.

[DCPatriot]

@DB
People weren't put into the ovens of Germany under the guise that it was a bad thing for a good cause.   

No they were put in the ovens because the German people had accepted that jews were lesser and to remove them was a good thing.

...as is being done right now with 'Conservatives'.  Their voices (weapons) are being silenced.  They are being villainized.

[skeeter]

There is a stark difference between fighting for a just-cause war based on principles of liberty against a lawless and tyrannical power, and a means-to-an-end, whatever-goes melee for punishment's sake because you hate the certain politics and beliefs, property or wealth of a people.

Thats a convenient distinction to make for your argument, but your first sentence neatly summarizes  what many of us whom you regularly condemn feel we are supporting.

[DCPatriot]

Thats a convenient distinction to make for your argument, but your first sentence neatly summarizes  what many of us whom you regularly condemn feel we are supporting.

The effects of having one's nose on the bark.   Can't see shit.   

[txradioguy]

...as is being done right now with 'Conservatives'.  Their voices (weapons) are being silenced.  They are being villainized.

And the sad thing is most of the villianization is coming from within.

[LauraTXNM]

True, but it also helped win independence for oppressed peoples and wars against tyrannies.

I'm sure God's will fits in here somewhere.

@skeeter Unfortunately, I've also see this argument accompanied by the idea that, "One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter."  ;(

[DCPatriot]

And the sad thing is most of the villianization is coming from within.

Like hell. 

Put out the match, @txradioguy         

[txradioguy]

Like hell. 

Put out the match, @txradioguy       

I'm not the one around here right now with the large stick stirring a smelly pot.

 

[skeeter]

@skeeter Unfortunately, I've also see this argument accompanied by the idea that, "One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter."  ;(

Yeah, I know. But sitting with hands tied behind our collective backs while an 'anything goes' opposition uses whatever means at their disposal to steal away my birthright as an American just doesn't appeal to me.