Author Topic: In Historic Reversal, Republicans Are Likely To Retain Control Of Congress  (Read 7138 times)

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Online sneakypete

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:amen:  They made a conscious decision in the primary to not only vote for the immoral one,

@libertybele

  "immoral one"?????  We elected presidents in this country,not nannies and not religious zealots. Keep your superstitions in your family. We are a free nation,not a cult.

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but disregarded his liberalism and failed to support the true conservative.

Name the "true conservative". Go ahead, I dare  you.

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They not only tossed morality aside but they tossed conservatism aside.

Proof you are a loon. Conservatism has nothing to do with religious cults. In FACT,members of religious cults are the LEAST conservative people in the nation. That is always true of slaves.
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Cruz was correct; "those who bolstered Trump WILL bear that responsibility going forward"!

Message to Ted Cruz,ESAD. He and Bubbette! should get together and have a pity party.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2018, 08:43:14 pm by sneakypete »
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Offline To-Whose-Benefit?

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@libertybele

  "immoral one"?????  We elected presidents in this country,not nannies and not religious zealots. Keep your superstitions in your family. We are a free nation,not a cult.

Name the "true conservative". Go ahead, I dare  you.

Proof you are a loon. Conservatism has nothing to do with religious cults. In FACT,members of religious cults are the LEAST conservative people in the nation. That is always true of slaves.

Message to Ted Cruz,ESAD. He and Bubbette! should get together and have a pity party.

 :word:

Now, for those still howling about Govt ignoring Their religious compass, . . .

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« Last Edit: April 10, 2018, 09:43:39 pm by To-Whose-Benefit? »
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Offline To-Whose-Benefit?

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As for this rescuing the PO-ed 'I USED to vote Republican but Never Again!' off and away into a True Conservative 3rd Party stuff:

Tea Party
Constitution Party
Libertarian Party
Bull Moose Party
Anti Federalists (they were called a faction in their day because they opposed the centralization of power in a Federal Govt)


Where are they today?
How much actual effect have they had?

Any 3rd Party that makes a real showing, IF it happens and it won't, opens the door to a 4th and 5th Party.

Democratic Socialists
CPUSA

Then we get Govt by coalitions of these multiple Parties.

And Votes of No Confidence in the Executive, like Europe.
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In Vol 2 the weapons come out in a winner take all war on two fronts.

Vol 3 opens with the rigged murder trial of the villain in a Viking Court under Viking law to set the stage for the hero's own murder trial.

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Offline aligncare

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As for this rescuing the PO-ed 'I USED to vote Republican but Never Again!' off and away into a True Conservative 3rd Party stuff:

Tea Party
Constitution Party
Libertarian Party
Bull Moose Party
Anti Federalists (they were called a faction in their day because they opposed the centralization of power in a Federal Govt)


Where are they today?
How much actual effect have they had?

Any 3rd Party that makes a real showing, IF it happens and it won't, opens the door to a 4th and 5th Party.

Democratic Socialists
CPUSA

Then we get Govt by coalitions of these multiple Parties.

And Votes of No Confidence in the Executive, like Europe.

Great points. Who wants to be Europe? The two party system is awful, except for all the others.

I think Trump represents a natural evolution when a party calcifies. Shake up the comfortable in government, or the fat and happy as I call them, but restore the system to its foundation, with two parties that reflect their base in a responsive and honest, open contest of ideas and solutions for expanding liberty and opportunity.

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Offline INVAR

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As for this rescuing the PO-ed 'I USED to vote Republican but Never Again!' off and away into a True Conservative 3rd Party stuff:

Tea Party
Constitution Party
Libertarian Party
Bull Moose Party
Anti Federalists (they were called a faction in their day because they opposed the centralization of power in a Federal Govt)


Where are they today?
How much actual effect have they had?

Gotta start somewhere.   A thoroughly corrupted Statist party that told Christian Conservatives to sit down, shut up and get lost while making a lifelong NYC Liberal Democrat it's standard-bearer of Conservatism - is not a party redeemable to carry the principles of liberty we are beholden IMO.

The Republican Party might as well be the Democrat Party AFAIC.  They certainly act and govern similarly, just not as aggressively.  I no longer trust them with being an opposition party to the Statist Left.  They have demonstrated that they are simply another party of the Collectivists that they think they can manage Statism better.

I'm done messing around with Lucy and the football or the Boy who cried "Help me stop the Democrats!"

I'm putting my energies elsewhere.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline aligncare

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What are you talking about? Christians stood up for Trump.

Offline libertybele

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@libertybele

  "immoral one"?????  We elected presidents in this country,not nannies and not religious zealots. Keep your superstitions in your family. We are a free nation,not a cult.

Name the "true conservative". Go ahead, I dare  you.

Proof you are a loon. Conservatism has nothing to do with religious cults. In FACT,members of religious cults are the LEAST conservative people in the nation. That is always true of slaves.
Message to Ted Cruz,ESAD. He and Bubbette! should get together and have a pity party.

The true conservative is Cruz.  He and Bubbette a pity party?  Really?  Cruz is the one who helped get Trump elected.  Where have you been?

I never stated that Conservatism with a religious cult.  Go back and read my post.  Then when you actually have a legitimate rebuttal, I'll consider discussing this further.  Next.
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline INVAR

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What are you talking about? Christians stood up for Trump.

Yeah?  So?

Lots of "Christians" today stand up for homosexual marriage in the church and are a-okay with abortion too.

Is that supposed to get me to abandon my views of morality and go with the flow just because they say vote for someone I considered reprehensible?

Notwithstanding the fact that a huge number of Republicans have opined publicly that they wish SOCONS would get lost because their "myopic views of morality" are a drag on their party and they are sick and tired of us.

So fine.  We had both the leadership and a good chunk of the GOP membership tell Christian Conservatives to shut up and either vote the way they demand - or get lost.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Online sneakypete

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Gotta start somewhere.   A thoroughly corrupted Statist party that told Christian Conservatives to sit down, shut up and get lost while making a lifelong NYC Liberal Democrat it's standard-bearer of Conservatism - is not a party redeemable to carry the principles of liberty we are beholden IMO.

@INVAR
HorseHillary! You HAVE NO PRINCIPLES OF LIBERTY because you want religious doctrine to be law.

Organized religion is slavery by another name.

And quit demonizing collectivism or people will begin to question your commitment to Christianity.


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Online sneakypete

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The true conservative is Cruz.  He and Bubbette a pity party?  Really?  Cruz is the one who helped get Trump elected.  Where have you been?

@libertybele

Living sober. You should give it a try.

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I never stated that Conservatism with a religious cult.
 

Of course not. You just state that is what you want it to be. You are just always complaining because there are too many people who refuse to walk in lock-step with you and become members of your Borg.
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Online roamer_1

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I’m afraid the US House of Representatives is likely going blue in November.

 :shrug: It's already blue...



Online roamer_1

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They made a conscious decision in the primary to not only vote for the immoral one, but disregarded his liberalism and failed to support the true conservative. They not only tossed morality aside but they tossed conservatism aside. Cruz was correct; "those who bolstered Trump WILL bear that responsibility going forward"!

That's right.

Online roamer_1

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What are you talking about? Christians stood up for Trump.

No, not by half, or he'd have had a landslide.

Online roamer_1

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  "immoral one"?????  We elected presidents in this country,not nannies and not religious zealots. Keep your superstitions in your family. We are a free nation,not a cult.


@sneakypete
Has less to do with religion than with trust.
An immoral man cannot be trusted and will be, predictably, indefensible.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2018, 09:55:03 pm by roamer_1 »

Offline edpc

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No, not by half, or he'd have had a landslide.



My Kansas county is loaded with churches.  It went by 17.5 points in 2012 for Romney.  In 2016, Trump won it by 2.4 points.
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

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My Kansas county is loaded with churches.  It went by 17.5 points in 2012 for Romney.  In 2016, Trump won it by 2.4 points.

Doesn't surprise me - I know a ton of Christians regionally and locally, mostly pretty hard core Christians (orthodoxy wise) and I don't know anyone who admits to voting for him. Not a one.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2018, 10:39:00 pm by roamer_1 »

Offline INVAR

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HorseHillary! You HAVE NO PRINCIPLES OF LIBERTY because you want religious doctrine to be law.

Come on Pete, you're better than that and we've already had discussions where we agreed that our laws were based on moral biblical principles that undergirded liberty as intended for us.  This includes murder, theft, lying, adultery and coveting what yer neighbor's got that 'aint yours.

The problem we agreed upon together is when 'religious doctrine' (i.e.; denominational positions) is attempted to be administered as law (i.e.: Prohibition).  I no more will tolerate a theocracy than you will.  I'm self-governed by a set of beliefs and principles that I don't want government meddling with.   Besides,  the most likely candidate for a theocracy in this country is going to be Islam.

Organized religion is slavery by another name.

Correct.  And, I prefer to be a slave to Christ and my biblical understanding than a slave to any man or institution of men.

And quit demonizing collectivism or people will begin to question your commitment to Christianity.

This is also true - because "Christians' have been indoctrinated to hold to the Red Letter Doctrine preached in recent years that Jesus was a Socialist - and that to be a good Christian means you have to be a government-empowering Collectivist. 
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Online corbe

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   I know a lot of Christians, besides my Family, and they are still Trump but many I know, besides the aforementioned Family, voted for obummer. It taints my Belief beyond recognition.
No government in the 12,000 years of modern mankind history has led its people into anything but the history books with a simple lesson, don't let this happen to you.

Online sneakypete

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Come on Pete, you're better than that and we've already had discussions where we agreed that our laws were based on moral biblical principles that undergirded liberty as intended for us
.

@INVAR

What's this "we" stuff? I never agreed to that. I DO agree that most (all?) religions have moral stands based on common sense,but if anything "the Bible" stole/borrowed those ideas from previous civilizations.


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The problem we agreed upon together is when 'religious doctrine' (i.e.; denominational positions) is attempted to be administered as law (i.e.: Prohibition).


That IS the only area I have a problem with MOST religious doctrine. I can't broaden that claim anymore because I am not familiar with every religious doctrine on earth,past,present,and future. IMHO,if you want to live your life a certain way and no one is purposely harming children or animals as a part of the doctrine,it's no business of mine and I have to place approving of disapproving of anything you do. Your business,not mine.

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I no more will tolerate a theocracy than you will.  I'm self-governed by a set of beliefs and principles that I don't want government meddling with.   Besides,  the most likely candidate for a theocracy in this country is going to be Islam.

Complete agreement,there. It is a simple fact of life that ALL organizations will take as much power as they can grab,and then abuse it. That is because organizations are controlled by humans,and human nature never really changes.

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And, I prefer to be a slave to Christ and my biblical understanding than a slave to any man or institution of men.

You are an adult capable of making up your own mind,so it's none of my business what you believe. Nor is it my place to approve or disapprove of it.  Live and let live.

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This is also true - because "Christians' have been indoctrinated to hold to the Red Letter Doctrine preached in recent years that Jesus was a Socialist - and that to be a good Christian means you have to be a government-empowering Collectivist.

That's pretty much the message of the New Testament,but since I am not a follower,I am in no position to argue the rightness or wrongness of it with a true believer.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2018, 11:04:37 pm by sneakypete »
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Offline bilo

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Yeah?  So?

Lots of "Christians" today stand up for homosexual marriage in the church and are a-okay with abortion too.

Is that supposed to get me to abandon my views of morality and go with the flow just because they say vote for someone I considered reprehensible?

Notwithstanding the fact that a huge number of Republicans have opined publicly that they wish SOCONS would get lost because their "myopic views of morality" are a drag on their party and they are sick and tired of us.

So fine.  We had both the leadership and a good chunk of the GOP membership tell Christian Conservatives to shut up and either vote the way they demand - or get lost.

We agree on a lot of things, especially how the Pubs have lied to and cheated their supporters, including me. However you will not find Christians supporting homosexual marriage and abortion. You may find people who claim the title, but obviously the Holy Spirit is not within them if they support those things. As paganism has grown a lot of churches that used to be Christian have been infected and succumbed to this evil.

One of the reasons you see such a strong support for Pres. Trump among Evangelical Christians (the Born Again) is precisely because of the Pub party always failing us. It's obvious the Pres. Trump is flawed in a lot of ways, but he does fight for us. Whereas, the Pub party could careless.
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Offline INVAR

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What's this "we" stuff? I never agreed to that.

Well... you did.  That the founders were governed by a set of moral principles found in the bible that influenced the kind of liberty they sought to preserve  for us - was not an issue we had in contention. 

I DO agree that most (all?) religions have moral stands based on common sense,

If that was the case, America would have come into existence in another culture long before White Men ever set foot on these shores.  Hinduism, Islam, on back to the Egyptians had no religions that respected individual liberty and rights to life, liberty and pursuits of happiness.  We are an anomaly in the entirety of mankind's written history that our government was based upon a foundation built on biblical principles of morality, and not under the castes of serf and noble.

That IS the only area I have a problem with MOST religious doctrine. I can't broaden that claim anymore because I am not familiar with every religious doctrine on earth,past,present,and future. IMHO,if you want to live your life a certain way and no one is purposely harming children or animals as a part of the doctrine,it's no business of mine and I have to place approving of disapproving of anything you do. Your business,not mine.

Self-governed means being guided by a set of moral principles that everyone agrees to in a way that enables a society to respects life, liberty and the property and pursuits of happiness without the leave of government or monarch to micromanage.  Most religions on the planet would not permit such a covenant due their own castes and abuse encoded in their doctrines of lesser peoples.  The Biblical/Judeo/Christian ethic is the  reason our liberty is and was unique in all human history.

Complete agreement,there. It is a simple fact of life that ALL organizations will take as much power as they can grab,and then abuse it. That is because organizations are controlled by humans,and human nature never really changes.

Somehow that fact is willfully forgotten in this day and age of making men and political leaders into popes and saviors.  I firmly believe in the adage that if a people are not self-governed by the biblical principles that established us (meaning all the stuff you and I would agree is morally reprehensible and wrong), then we will be ruled by the tyranny of men.  As Benji Franklin rightly noted: "As nations become more corrupt and vicious, they will have more need of masters".

You are an adult capable of making up your own mind,so it's none of my business what you believe. Nor is it my place to approve or disapprove of it.  Live and let live.

Except that people need a Safe Space from hearing anything that is contrary to their Social Justice worldview.

That's pretty much the message of the New Testament,but since I am not a follower,I am in no position to argue the rightness or wrongness of it with a true believer.


Actually, that is NOT the message in the New Testament letters.  That is simply a Leftist perversion of the Sermon on the Mount.  Nowhere in scripture does Jesus tell His followers to empower government to serve others on their behalf.  Doing so robs the Believer of their own personal responsibility to do charity and serve where he is led or compelled to serve out of a willing heart.

Not only that - but Jesus expounded on the fact that Union fairness is not the way God thinks if one considers the Parable of the laborers in the Harvest.  Jesus talks about paying workers the same exact wage, regardless of the hour He commissioned them to work.  His words to those who were outraged that the owner of the vineyard would pay the same wage to someone hired at dawn as someone whom he hired and only worked for an hour - "You agreed to work for me at the price I offered did you not?  Take your pay and go. I want to give the one who was hired last the same as I gave you. Don’t I have the right to do what I want with my own money? So the last will be first, and the first will be last.” Matthew 20:14-16

That pretty much kills the idea of what modern society says is fairness.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Online roamer_1

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Actually, that is NOT the message in the New Testament letters.  That is simply a Leftist perversion of the Sermon on the Mount.  Nowhere in scripture does Jesus tell His followers to empower government to serve others on their behalf.

TRUE.

Offline INVAR

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One of the reasons you see such a strong support for Pres. Trump among Evangelical Christians (the Born Again) is precisely because of the Pub party always failing us. It's obvious the Pres. Trump is flawed in a lot of ways, but he does fight for us. Whereas, the Pub party could careless.

I think the excuses Evangelicals make for Trump's own character flaws, sins and problems being trumpeted - is hypocrisy of the highest order, when they were outraged when similar things were done under the Clinton and Obama regimes.  They give Trump a full pass for because of the 'he fights for us' meme and then go on to insist that God anointed Trump to the office.

Nope. 
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Online sneakypete

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Well... you did.  That the founders were governed by a set of moral principles found in the bible that influenced the kind of liberty they sought to preserve  for us - was not an issue we had in contention. 

@INVAR

Maybe the disagreement lies in my interpretation of "found in the bible" is different than yours? To ME,it IMPLIES it ORIGINATED in the bible. What does it mean to you?

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If that was the case, America would have come into existence in another culture long before White Men ever set foot on these shores. 

It did. White men didn't invent the continent,and AFAIK white men weren't the first men to live here.

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Hinduism, Islam, on back to the Egyptians had no religions that respected individual liberty and rights to life, liberty and pursuits of happiness.  We are an anomaly in the entirety of mankind's written history that our government was based upon a foundation built on biblical principles of morality, and not under the castes of serf and noble.

A SERIOUS stretch of historical events. White men mostly came from Europe. Are  you claiming Europe was a model of morality and equality?

Are you totally unfamiliar with the Catholic Church,the Old Testament,and European History?



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Self-governed means being guided by a set of moral principles that everyone agrees to in a way that enables a society to respects life, liberty and the property and pursuits of happiness without the leave of government or monarch to micromanage.

Organized religion is very much a government.A harsh one.

 
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Most religions on the planet would not permit such a covenant due their own castes and abuse encoded in their doctrines of lesser peoples.  The Biblical/Judeo/Christian ethic is the  reason our liberty is and was unique in all human history.

I am sure you believe that to be true because it is what you have been taught since you were a child,but it's not.

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Somehow that fact is willfully forgotten in this day and age of making men and political leaders into popes and saviors.


The typical scumbag politician of today is too moral to be a Pope.

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I firmly believe in the adage that if a people are not self-governed by the biblical principles that established us (meaning all the stuff you and I would agree is morally reprehensible and wrong), then we will be ruled by the tyranny of men.  As Benji Franklin rightly noted: "As nations become more corrupt and vicious, they will have more need of masters".

Once again,those principles were not given birth by the Bible.


 BUT.....,continue to feel free to believe anything you want to believe. Just don't demand that laws be enacted that force me and others to live according to your religious beliefs or face punishment.

 
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!