As Medicare cracks down on opiods, doctors worry patients will suffer

[ABX]

....Medicare, they decided, would now refuse to pay for long-term, high-dose prescriptions; a rule to that effect is expected to be approved on April 2. Some medical experts have praised the regulation as a check on addiction.
But the proposal has also drawn a broad and clamorous blowback from many people who would be directly affected by it, including patients with chronic pain, primary care doctors and experts in pain management and addiction medicine.....

http://www.staradvertiser.com/2018/03/27/nyt/as-medicare-cracks-down-on-opiods-doctors-worry-patients-will-suffer/

[Cyber Liberty]

Thanks for posting this, @AbaraXas.

I just got off the phone to my (Dem) Congresswoman's office after delivering a polite rant about how this rule is going to literally kill my 90-year-old Mom.  Apparently Medicrap is worried she might get addicted. 

Hopefully it will do some good.  My Congresscritter haaattttttes Trump.

[truth_seeker]

IMO one big reason for the call for government action is lack of action by medical professionals.

My personal experience was a disappointment. The doctor failed to initiate any discussion or action, to take me off opioids.

I initiated it myself. The doctor suggested doing it gradually, but I took my own advice and risked cold turkey.

It turned out I was fine without the opioids. A little more pain using tylenol, but the side effects were finished (those required 2 more prescriptions).

[Cyber Liberty]

IMO one big reason for the call for government action is lack of action by medical professionals.

My personal experience was a disappointment. The doctor failed to initiate any discussion or action, to take me off opioids.

I initiated it myself. The doctor suggested doing it gradually, but I took my own advice and risked cold turkey.

It turned out I was fine without the opioids. A little more pain using tylenol, but the side effects were finished (those required 2 more prescriptions).

True for a lot of us young bucks.  I did that after both hip replacements, didn't wait for my Orthopod to tell me, I told him

But one size does not fit all.  This is going to kill my Mom.  She doesn't know yet, I imagine her Doc is going to tell her next time she sees him.  The person I have been talking about on these threads has already been thrown off the meds, we're hoping Tramadol does the job, and if it does we hope Melania Trump and her brain trust don't decide to throw her off that, too.

[Victoria33]

@Cyber Liberty

On the other thread, someone posted some states already limit opioid prescriptions.  I doubt it is a limit of 7 days, as Medicare is going to do. What?  I have to go back to doctor every 7 days?  Better to rent one of the doctor's offices and live there.

[ABX]

@Cyber Liberty

On the other thread, someone posted some states already limit opiod prescriptions.  I doubt it is a limit of 7 days, as Medicare is going to do. What?  I have to go back to doctor every 7 days?  Better to rent one of the doctor's offices and live there.

I saw an article when looking for this one that Florida, for example, adopted a 3 day limit.

[ABX]

@Cyber Liberty

On the other thread, someone posted some states already limit opiod prescriptions.  I doubt it is a limit of 7 days, as Medicare is going to do. What?  I have to go back to doctor every 7 days?  Better to rent one of the doctor's offices and live there.

Every doctor visit is a bill to Medicare and/or insurance.  Making people more dependent on the government and the system deeper in debt.

Now, instead of a doctor visit once a month, for example, you go once a week- so quadrupling the visits billed.

[Cyber Liberty]

Every doctor visit is a bill to Medicare and/or insurance.  Making people more dependent on the government and the system deeper in debt.

Now, instead of a doctor visit once a month, for example, you go once a week- so quadrupling the visits billed.

That's insane.  You know they're going to lean on the Docs to cut their reimbursements even more.

Here in AZ, they're just going to the State Medical Board and pressuring them to threaten to strip Doctors of their certs.  Same horrible consequences, but done more quietly as they leave the explaining to the Docs.  That's how my friend got thrown off a Hydrocodone regimen that has worked for years.  No muss, no fuss, and no publicity.

[Victoria33]

This is going to kill my Mom.  She doesn't know yet, I imagine her Doc is going to tell her next time she sees him.

@Cyber Liberty

He is likely not to tell her until time gets closer to Jan. 1.  Why worry her now?
Maybe a miracle will happen between now and next Monday and they won't keep that particular rule in there.  If it is there, I wish your mom's pain and mine on Donald Duck Trump and don't let him have more than 7 days of pills.  The King can get anything he wants - the peasants can't.

Anyone know if this, hydrocodone, can be bought in Canada on line and sent here?  I'm not kidding.  Plus, would that be against the law?

There is someone on this forum who has, twice, earlier, suggested marijuana in PMs to me; I will never do that so forget that and it's illegal still in Texas. Think there was a medical marijuana bill last time in Texas legislature, but don't think it passed.

This is a fine mess we are in.

[Victoria33]

Every doctor visit is a bill to Medicare and/or insurance.  Making people more dependent on the government and the system deeper in debt.  Now, instead of a doctor visit once a month, for example, you go once a week- so quadrupling the visits billed.

@AbaraXas

I had not thought of that.  With so many having to go every week, one couldn't get an appointment, either. 

[Cyber Liberty]

@Cyber Liberty

He is likely not to tell her until time gets closer to Jan. 1.  Why worry her now?
Maybe a miracle will happen between now and next Monday and they won't keep that particular rule in there.  If it is there, I wish your mom's pain and mine on Donald Duck Trump and don't let him have more than 7 days of pills.  The King can get anything he wants - the peasants can't.

Anyone know if this, hydrocodone, can be bought in Canada on line and sent here?  I'm not kidding.  Plus, would that be against the law?

There is someone on this forum who has, twice, earlier, suggested marijuana in PMs to me; I will never do that so forget that and it's illegal still in Texas. Think there was a medical marijuana bill last time in Texas legislature, but don't think it passed.

This is a fine mess we are in.

I imagine the penalties for bringing a Narcotic over the international border would be pretty stiff.  I'm hoping there will be sufficient noise created by this NYT story to get them to reconsider the stupid rule.  Better still, if the bureaucrats then announced they will take no more directives from Melania Trump.

I'd call my Senators, but one is McCain who probably can't find his sippy cup, and the other is Flake who is too busy listening to his own voice to pick up this great rock with which to beat his nemesis over the head with.  It's a pretty damnable state of affairs I must plead with my Commiecrat Rep to do something.

[Applewood]

@Victoria33

Just for the heck of it, i searched the website of a Canadian pharmacy I dealt with some years ago.  It doesn't offer hydrocodone -- probably because it is such a controlled substance here.

For what it's worth, I'm composing an email to my Republican senator.  Don't know if he can help, but unlike the other senator (a dopey Democrat) and the even dopier Dem congressman, this guy will at least answer me. 

[roamer_1]

This is precisely why I weaned myself off... I knew it would only tighten more, and giving those SOBs that kind of power over my life was not acceptable. When it went to checking in with the doc for a hand-written prescription every time, I began looking for alternatives.

[truth_seeker]

I imagine the penalties for bringing a Narcotic over the international border would be pretty stiff.  I'm hoping there will be sufficient noise created by this NYT story to get them to reconsider the stupid rule.  Better still, if the bureaucrats then announced they will take no more directives from Melania Trump.

I'd call my Senators, but one is McCain who probably can't find his sippy cup, and the other is Flake who is too busy listening to his own voice to pick up this great rock with which to beat his nemesis over the head with.  It's a pretty damnable state of affairs I must plead with my Commiecrat Rep to do something.

I had major surgery in 2013. Saved a few left over opioid pain meds. I just looked at the labels.

Guess how much I got at one time? Never more than a one week supply, using them as prescribed. And no refills.

If I needed more, I called the doctor's office. Either the MD or his PA wrote another prescription, sent it to my designated pharmacy for me to pick up (or my wife).

[truth_seeker]

This is precisely why I weaned myself off... I knew it would only tighten more, and giving those SOBs that kind of power over my life was not acceptable. When it went to checking in with the doc for a hand-written prescription every time, I began looking for alternatives.

Were you going back for a written precription for pain, or for addiction (which in large measure is fear of withdrawal discomfort) ?

[GtHawk]

I had major surgery in 2013. Saved a few left over opioid pain meds. I just looked at the labels.

Guess how much I got at one time? Never more than a one week supply, using them as prescribed. And no refills.

If I needed more, I called the doctor's office. Either the MD or his PA wrote another prescription, sent it to my designated pharmacy for me to pick up (or my wife).

So.......good enough for me, good enough for thee? I hope for your sake you never experience long term debilitating pain, then again you appear to able to tuff it out with Tylenol so won't need any real meds.

[roamer_1]

Were you going back for a written precription for pain, or for addiction (which in large measure is fear of withdrawal discomfort) ?

No, I had legit pain, and still do, especially now, since I have begun walking again after a long convalescence. But, with substance abuse a thing in my past, I always tried to wean off for the summers anyway, to prevent a hard addiction, and to keep my body from getting too used to the drugs, whereupon they lose a ton of effectiveness - Even over the winter, my comfort level required more at the end than at the beginning, nearly by double.

But that also left me very familiar with the effects of 'withdrawal discomfort', as I did it pretty much every year - To a lesser degree I suppose than for those that let addiction reach its full blossom...

[Cyber Liberty]

I had major surgery in 2013. Saved a few left over opioid pain meds. I just looked at the labels.

Guess how much I got at one time? Never more than a one week supply, using them as prescribed. And no refills.

If I needed more, I called the doctor's office. Either the MD or his PA wrote another prescription, sent it to my designated pharmacy for me to pick up (or my wife).

Can't call them in anymore.  You were dealing with "the permissive times."  Now, it's been decided the lives of junkies (that won't be saved) are worth more than old-ass Geriatric patients.  If implemented Monday, this new policy will be responsible for thousands of older Americans either dying, or being crippled by pain.

Kinda gives you something to look forward to in your golden years, doesn't it? 

[Hoodat]

I initiated it myself. The doctor suggested doing it gradually, but I took my own advice and risked cold turkey.

It turned out I was fine without the opioids.

Good for you.  Drug addition is slavery.

[Hoodat]

This is precisely why I weaned myself off... I knew it would only tighten more, and giving those SOBs that kind of power over my life was not acceptable.

There's a reason why they call methadone "liquid handcuffs".

[Victoria33]

This is precisely why I weaned myself off... I knew it would only tighten more, and giving those SOBs that kind of power over my life was not acceptable. When it went to checking in with the doc for a hand-written prescription every time, I began looking for alternatives.

@roamer_1
@Cyber Liberty
@GtHawk

News of this new rule, only can get 7 day prescription, comes when I couldn't move three days ago due to massive back pain.  That pain is still in my mind and my back muscles are still sore due to the seizure of the muscles.  How dare Trump take away my pills.

So, Roamer, what do you take for serious pain?  Pain so bad if it doesn't stop, death would be better - that kind of pain as I was close to that this time, and the time before that, I would have died to stop it.  My brain was screaming in pain both times.

How does one stop that kind of pain without pain pills and non-seizure pills?  I have to figure this out before Jan. 1.  So do other people here and their relatives.

[roamer_1]

There's a reason why they call methadone "liquid handcuffs".

Never been very good at listening to folks who want to make me jump through hoops. Not my bag.

So I have found alternative means.

[Cyber Liberty]

@roamer_1
@Cyber Liberty

News of this new rule, only can get 7 day prescription, comes when I couldn't move three days ago due to massive back pain.  That pain is still in my mind and my back muscles are still sore due to the seizure of the muscles.  How dare Trump take away my pills.

So, Roamer, what do you take for serious pain?  Pain so bad if it doesn't stop, death would be better - that kind of pain as I was close to that this time, and the time before that, I would have died to stop it.  My brain was screaming in pain both times.

How does one stop that kind of pain without pain pills and non-seizure pills?  I have to figure this out before Jan. 1.  So do other people here and their relatives.

Mom hasn't heard this bit of good news yet, but she's been assuring me she's not making it to January anyway....

[roamer_1]

So, Roamer, what do you take for serious pain?  Pain so bad if it doesn't stop, death would be better - that kind of pain as I was close to that this time, and the time before that, I would have died to stop it.  My brain was screaming in pain both times.

How does one stop that kind of pain without pain pills and non-seizure pills?  I have to figure this out before Jan. 1.  So do other people here and their relatives.

@Victoria33
Primarily turmeric milk and willow bark tea... And other residuals (like chaga tea) that are not really pain related, but help give the body what it needs for repair and health. I am almost completely off store bought foods, to include only organic grains - I think a whole bunch of it is reaction to roundup and pesticides on foods bought through the delivery chain.

Went back to the old ways and a lot of my pain diminished. Even off of city water - I get my water form an artesian spring.

All I have for seizure is magnesium, which is sufficient for me - I do seize but mostly my problem is muscles that won't come off 'ready'... not seizing, but not able to relax... When I start getting that way, I start upping my magnesium.

If I get really bad, Alcohol. Yep. I get shit-faced. My pain is tied to sleep, and if I can't sleep, it will be worse tomorrow. So a few beers, and I don't care that I am hurting, and I can sleep (or pass out trying) I usually wake up pretty much better. But I resort to alcohol very rarely.

Consult a native medicine or homeopath guy. Figure out what works for you.
But I am successfully past two winters now, with no narcs.
That from a 4 to 8 norco 7.5's/10s  a day habit (at least in the winter), or comparable in vikes, oxys, etc.

And the relief is more real, btw. Narcs just made me not care that I was hurting... but this method actually removes the pain.

And btw, *RESPECT*. I know what it's like, and I will not call you an addict, nor criticize your dilemma. I would still be right there with you, but for those sonsabiches making me jump through hoops. I would rather use what I can grow right here, and poke those bastards in the eye. 

[GtHawk]

@roamer_1
@Cyber Liberty
@GtHawk

News of this new rule, only can get 7 day prescription, comes when I couldn't move three days ago due to massive back pain.  That pain is still in my mind and my back muscles are still sore due to the seizure of the muscles.  How dare Trump take away my pills.

So, Roamer, what do you take for serious pain?  Pain so bad if it doesn't stop, death would be better - that kind of pain as I was close to that this time, and the time before that, I would have died to stop it.  My brain was screaming in pain both times.

How does one stop that kind of pain without pain pills and non-seizure pills?  I have to figure this out before Jan. 1.  So do other people here and their relatives.

@Victoria33
My mother goes thru periods of intense pain similar to what you describe and had an episode just recently. I am the one who takes care of her needs and medical, so not only would I be hopping for myself I'd be spinning around to get her pain meds for her too! What a imbecilic (but look who started this war) waste of not only the physician or his staffs time but also of those suffering. And what if the imbeciles in charge decide that the doctor knowing his patient, can't just authorize a refill? What if they require an office visit? Now the person in pain has to suffer through the trip to the Dr. office sitting in uncomfortable seating aggravating the pain while keeping the Dr. from seeing patients that actually need to see the Dr. for illness. Plus the financial strain on people like my mom that have a copay for every office visit.
I just went through crap with Kaiser today for my mom, she had to go for a injection for osteoporosis, the only facility that does it was over twenty miles away, not bad unless your 88 and in pain and then once there they tell us she needs to go for a bone density scan another trip to another facility, one we were at two days before for a blood draw she needed for the Endocrinologist! Because Kaiser couldn't get it's shit together and set up all the tests, let alone tell us, beforehand an 88 year old that is in chronic pain was made to suffer more.
 If they actually put this into effect I think Medicare(who doesn't care) the politicians and especially Trump are going to hear a shout that is deafening.