Broward Sheriff's office's active shooter protocol does not require a deputy to engage the shooter.

[WingNot]

Israel said he had provided "amazing leadership" and it wasn't his fault that deputy Scot Peterson had failed to enter Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School during the shooting. Politico reports that the sheriff's office's active shooter protocol does not require a deputy to engage the shooter. A sheriff's office spokeswoman declined to explain why.

PDF at link.
https://www.politico.com/states/f/?id=00000161-ce88-d3a7-a5e1-eecd4aad0000

[edpc]

Politico reports that the sheriff's office's active shooter protocol does not require a deputy to engage the shooter.

Sheriff Israel is right.  That's pretty effing amazing.....

[Victoria33]

@mystery-ak

I read the protocol, and it says when a deputy has on site intelligence someone is shooting inside a building, he may go in without waiting for other deputies and does not need approval from sheriff's department to go in.  It also does not REQUIRE the deputy to go in.  Deputy has to decide to go in or not go in.

I want to say about Emergency Medical Services, the EMTs, by protocol CANNOT go in a building unless it has been determined to be safe for them - dead EMTs cannot help patients.  This was drilled into us who became EMTs.
emergency call along with EMS?

An aside:  Why do police and firemen arrive at a medical emergency along with the EMTs?
Police assess situation to determine safety for EMTs before entering.  It is the firemen's duty to get the patient to the EMTs if the patient is locked in a room, stuck in a bathroom where EMTs can't get to patient, take/extract patient downstairs, etc..  Firemen have equipment EMTs don't have, so Firemen have that duty.  EMTs do the medical work; they cannot be police and firemen, too, at a location.

When I lived by myself, family wanted me to wear one of those medical things on a necklace so if I fell, I could punch the button and EMTs would come to the house.  One day the button accidentally got punched and I didn't know it.  It was night, and suddenly someone was banging at my front door.  It was the police, firemen, ambulance - it looked like Christmas out there with red/blue lights everywhere on their vehicles.  They were ready to charge inside my house to save me.  I apologized to them and felt awful that happened.

[240B]

Did someone tell the responders to "Stand Down" as in Benghazi?
Israel refuses to say No. He says, I can't talk about that.

Broward County Sheriff Denies Mishandling Shooting Response

http://dailycaller.com/2018/02/25/broward-county-sheriff-shooting-response/

[driftdiver]

I could maybe see waiting for a second person before you went in.   That would make tactical sense.

To have 4 of them hiding behind their cars tells me they were waiting for SWAT or the shooting to stop.

[txradioguy]

I could maybe see waiting for a second person before you went in.   That would make tactical sense.

To have 4 of them hiding behind their cars tells me they were waiting for SWAT or the shooting to stop.

And their lack of action is more than likely...IMO...what let the shooter escape and avoid capture for quite some time after the shooting stopped.

[Bigun]

Worthless!  The whole lot if you ask me!

[Frank Cannon]

[XenaLee]

When you add in the total incompetence and laziness of the Broward sheriff's office.... coupled with (as usual) government interference ala the Obama and Holder's policies (protecting 'our people')....

you have a perfect recipe of leftist-orchestrated and caused disaster.  And then they have the nerve to blame the NRA and gun owners?

The program that allowed Cruz to skate (See: Same interference with Treyvon Martin).

https://www.browardprevention.org/behavior/promise/

The program that started in Chicago (big shock there) that Rush is talking about now...

https://www.browardprevention.org/behavior/promise/

[mystery-ak]

When you add in the total incompetence and laziness of the Broward sheriff's office.... coupled with (as usual) government interference ala the Obama and Holder's policies (protecting 'our people')....

you have a perfect recipe of leftist-orchestrated and caused disaster.  And then they have the nerve to blame the NRA and gun owners?

The program that allowed Cruz to skate (See: Same interference with Treyvon Martin).

https://www.browardprevention.org/behavior/promise/

The program that started in Chicago (big shock there) that Rush is talking about now...

https://www.browardprevention.org/behavior/promise/

Rush was just discussing the PROMISE Program devised by Obama and Holden...

[edpc]

It is pretty obvious this guy thought he would spend a few years in a cushy job, occasionally breaking up a fight, and counting down days to retirement. Once the shooting began, his priorities were his pension and snook fishing, not the students.

[WingNot]

The intent of PROMISE is to safeguard the student from entering the judicial system.

To hell with safeguarding the other student is the school house.

[XenaLee]

To hell with safeguarding the other student is the school house.

To find out that this latest school shooting is the product of LEFTIST policies is not a shock.  At least, not to me.  Hell, we knew even back during the Treyvon Martin fiasco that the police (government) was refusing to charge thugs like him.... for "some" reason.  Now we know it was an official government program cloaked as a "grant program".  Figures.

[truth_seeker]

1. Lost Angeles 1992 Rodney King riots: Police got much criticism, when they effectively retreated from danger, in order to regroup, strengthen, then return with enough force to deal with matters.

2. A neighbor and friend of mine, now retired city police officer (following 20 years in LAPD) was first on scene, of a July 4th riot. Young people burning couches in the street, etc. He was outnumbered as one versus perhaps 200. He followed policies, got away fast. Then with adequate force, they cam back and stopped the riot.

I am NOT excusing the behavior of the single campus cop, or the 4 sheriff dept. officers.

The responding officers, don't know how many shooters are involved.

[edpc]

The responding officers, don't know how many shooters are involved.

That’s true, but you do know as the officer assigned to the school, you are the only armed good guy on site that has a chance against him/them.  To stand by and listen while people are murdered is unacceptable.

[truth_seeker]

That’s true, but you do know as the officer assigned to the school, you are the only armed good guy on site that has a chance against him/them.  To stand by and listen while people are murdered is unacceptable.

It poses tough questions. I followed the Waco biker shootout for quite awhile. The cops there, presumably "heard" something, and tried to "do something." Next they took a lot of criticism as if they should have stayed away, and let other diners in the restaurant get caught in crossfire when the biker gangs shot it out.

I believe the bigger issue, is overall law enforcement Non-Action to multiple warnings.

[XenaLee]

1. Lost Angeles 1992 Rodney King riots: Police got much criticism, when they effectively retreated from danger, in order to regroup, strengthen, then return with enough force to deal with matters.

2. A neighbor and friend of mine, now retired city police officer (following 20 years in LAPD) was first on scene, of a July 4th riot. Young people burning couches in the street, etc. He was outnumbered as one versus perhaps 200. He followed policies, got away fast. Then with adequate force, they cam back and stopped the riot.

I am NOT excusing the behavior of the single campus cop, or the 4 sheriff dept. officers.

The responding officers, don't know how many shooters are involved.

Yes.... but.... to hide behind their cars OUTSIDE means they will only know how many shooters there are AFTER the event.   Right?

Seems to me the best way to find out how many shooters there are is to go in.  What are they getting paid for, if not for that?

[edpc]

It poses tough questions. I followed the Waco biker shootout for quite awhile. The cops there, presumably "heard" something, and tried to "do something." Next they took a lot of criticism as if they should have stayed away, and let other diners in the restaurant get caught in crossfire when the biker gangs shot it out.

I believe the bigger issue, is overall law enforcement Non-Action to multiple warnings.

Problem with that comparison is you had hundreds of people at that motorcycle rally wearing similar garb who were lawfully armed and many others who weren’t.  You can’t easily discern who’s an aggressor and who’s defending themselves.  Anyone armed in that school aside from law enforcement would be your target.

[roamer_1]

Yes.... but.... to hide behind their cars OUTSIDE means they will only know how many shooters there are AFTER the event.   Right?

Seems to me the best way to find out how many shooters there are is to go in.  What are they getting paid for, if not for that?

You are relying upon the wrong forces to mediate this situation.

Six minutes.
There is no way that an outside force can gather, plan, coordinate, and execute a response in six minutes.
The only real answer is that the response must come from within.
The ONLY true answer is that 'gun-free zones' are why these targets cannot be hardened or mediated. Period.

A SEAL team could properly assault that building, if they were on the ground. Their means and methods are capable of asymmetric  assault and seat-of-the-pants, on-the-fly tactical changes.

Cops are not capable of that. They cannot charge hell with a bucket of water.
They have a rigid command structure and protocols, and force protection mandates that rely upon intel and overwhelming force. I am alright with that, but don't expect that to win the day in six minutes. It cannot happen.

[truth_seeker]

Problem with that comparison is you had hundreds of people at that motorcycle rally wearing similar garb who were lawfully armed and many others who weren’t.  You can’t easily discern who’s an aggressor and who’s defending themselves.  Anyone armed in that school aside from law enforcement would be your target.

Yet the LEOs didn't shoot a single unarmed non-biker diner, indicating to me it was possible to discern who to go after.

Do you think LEOs should have even been at Waco, or not?

Do you think LEOs at Waco should have shot at targets, or not?

*We have ALL been treated lifetimes of television dramas about police actions, usually with romantic notions of "ideal" outcomes.

The Florida kid should have been locked up. That is the ideal outcome.

[edpc]

Yet the LEOs didn't shoot a single unarmed non-biker diner, indicating to me it was possible to discern who to go after.

Do you think LEOs should have even been at Waco, or not?

Do you think LEOs at Waco should have shot at targets, or not?

*We have ALL been treated lifetimes of television dramas about police actions, usually with romantic notions of "ideal" outcomes.

The Florida kid should have been locked up. That is the ideal outcome.

Yes, they should have been there, because there were prior indications at least one element would cause trouble.  Ideally, they should have had UCs inside where it's easier to tell what's going on.  In any case, they're completely different situations as explained and not relevant to the school situation. 

[driftdiver]

You are relying upon the wrong forces to mediate this situation.

Six minutes.
There is no way that an outside force can gather, plan, coordinate, and execute a response in six minutes.
The only real answer is that the response must come from within.
The ONLY true answer is that 'gun-free zones' are why these targets cannot be hardened or mediated. Period.

A SEAL team could properly assault that building, if they were on the ground. Their means and methods are capable of asymmetric  assault and seat-of-the-pants, on-the-fly tactical changes.

Cops are not capable of that. They cannot charge hell with a bucket of water.
They have a rigid command structure and protocols, and force protection mandates that rely upon intel and overwhelming force. I am alright with that, but don't expect that to win the day in six minutes. It cannot happen.

@roamer_1
We've heard that before.  The cops act as if there could be a massive assault team on every one of these shootings.  So they stop and collect all their troops.  Meanwhile the shooter continues to shot.

In every case following Columbine there was only one shooter.  Even then the two killers traveled together.

No the tactics used by police are there to protect cops, not people.   They have decided its acceptable to trade the lives of our children rather then risk one cops life going after a shooter.

In this case a single cop could easily have stopped the shooting. The other police dept did enter the building upon arrival and perhaps they did stop it.

[driftdiver]

Yet the LEOs didn't shoot a single unarmed non-biker diner, indicating to me it was possible to discern who to go after.

Do you think LEOs should have even been at Waco, or not?

Do you think LEOs at Waco should have shot at targets, or not?

*We have ALL been treated lifetimes of television dramas about police actions, usually with romantic notions of "ideal" outcomes.

The Florida kid should have been locked up. That is the ideal outcome.

@truth_seeker
In Waco they should have arrested Koresh on one of his daily trips to town, like the Sheriff suggested.   Instead they called the media and did a very high risk dynamic entry when even a blind squirrel could have told them it would lead to shooting.  Thereby putting the lives of innocents at severe risk.

So they went in shooting, killing men women and children.  Burning some to death, asphyxiating others.  Some were killed by the toxic chemicals released when the tear gas burned.  Others were killed as they ran out of the burning structure.   

When it was over Texas Rangers reported seeing ATF & FBi agents pouring bleach onto evidence.  Then within 24 hours the entire site was bulldozed.

No there's nothing positive about Waco from a LEO point of view.

[XenaLee]

You are relying upon the wrong forces to mediate this situation.

Six minutes.
There is no way that an outside force can gather, plan, coordinate, and execute a response in six minutes.
The only real answer is that the response must come from within.
The ONLY true answer is that 'gun-free zones' are why these targets cannot be hardened or mediated. Period.

A SEAL team could properly assault that building, if they were on the ground. Their means and methods are capable of asymmetric  assault and seat-of-the-pants, on-the-fly tactical changes.

Cops are not capable of that. They cannot charge hell with a bucket of water.
They have a rigid command structure and protocols, and force protection mandates that rely upon intel and overwhelming force. I am alright with that, but don't expect that to win the day in six minutes. It cannot happen.

I totally disagree.  Cops (at least, 'some' cops) are more than capable of handling a school shooter such as Cruz.  I don't know where you're getting your disinformation.

And I ask again... if not going in and trying to save kids from being gunned down...
what the hell ARE they being paid for?

[driftdiver]

I totally disagree.  Cops (at least, 'some' cops) are more than capable of handling a school shooter such as Cruz.  I don't know where you're getting your disinformation.

And I ask again... if not going in and trying to save kids from being gunned down...
what the hell ARE they being paid for?

@XenaLee
You don't need a seal team in this situation.  You might need swat if they're close but more than likely the only officers in a position to help are the normal every day street cop.

Who should certainly be more proficient with tactics and his firearm then every single one of the people responsible for the school shootings we've seen.