Author Topic: Trump to take steps to ban bump stocks  (Read 13662 times)

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Offline LauraTXNM

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Re: Trump to take steps to ban bump stocks
« Reply #350 on: February 24, 2018, 06:43:45 pm »
Under Texas state law a convicted felon may possess a firearm in the residence, in which he lives, once five years have elapsed from the date his sentence was discharged.

He can't buy one(fails NICS), but he can possess one in his home.

This makes sense to me.  Do you think it's appropriate?
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Offline INVAR

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Re: Trump to take steps to ban bump stocks
« Reply #351 on: February 24, 2018, 06:53:26 pm »
So in NC you have to ask permission to buy a handgun from the Sheriff? And you think this makes it easy?

This is why I think getting a CCL is stupid.

We already HAVE an inalienable right to keep and bear arms. 

To grovel before a sheriff or law enforcement or government  to license a right you already possess, is simply surrendering your Right to become a government-granted privilege.

And, as @roamer_1 pointed out - why put yourself on a list that will be used to impose taxes, registration and confiscation of your weapons when the tyrant Statists get their way?

When a government is scared shitless of what it's armed population might do to them, you have liberty.

When a population is scared shitless of what its government might do to them, you have tyranny.

Here we are, living in a comfortable quasi-tyranny that only needs the population to be disarmed before that tyranny goes into ballistic despotism.
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Re: Trump to take steps to ban bump stocks
« Reply #352 on: February 24, 2018, 07:52:14 pm »
This is why I think getting a CCL is stupid.

We already HAVE an inalienable right to keep and bear arms. 

To grovel before a sheriff or law enforcement or government  to license a right you already possess, is simply surrendering your Right to become a government-granted privilege.

And, as @roamer_1 pointed out - why put yourself on a list that will be used to impose taxes, registration and confiscation of your weapons when the tyrant Statists get their way?

When a government is scared shitless of what it's armed population might do to them, you have liberty.

When a population is scared shitless of what its government might do to them, you have tyranny.

Here we are, living in a comfortable quasi-tyranny that only needs the population to be disarmed before that tyranny goes into ballistic despotism.

I was pretty happy when AZ passed the Constitutional Carry law we have in the Summer of 2010.  I don't need any kind of a "by your leave" from anybody if I want to carry a weapon, just some space in my pocket, no permission required.  Most stores around here are fine with my carrying.

I'm glad that was an election year, because the RINO Governor would never have signed it if she wasn't in a tough Primary.  To her discredit, she would not extend the right to public streets that run though college campuses because that bill came to her desk after the Primary.  Happy to say that it came up again after the next Governor was elected, and he had no problem signing it.

I've noticed more states have passed Constitutional Carry since we did.
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: BREAKING: TRUMP DIRECTS SESSIONS TO BAN BUMP STOCKS
« Reply #353 on: February 24, 2018, 07:52:42 pm »
Thanks for giving me this info!  I'm sorry I'm late in answering, but I have a couple of follow-up questions, if you don't mind.

From the article:
3. Expanding the background check requirement, especially if it is coupled with "improved" databases, compounds the injustice of disarming millions of people who pose no threat to others but are nevertheless forbidden to own guns because they use illegal drugs, overstay a visa, were once subjected to court-ordered psychiatric treatment, or have felony records, even if they have never committed a violent crime.

Why should people in the US illegally (visa overstays) be allowed to buy guns?  Or felons -- I thought that was pretty well accepted?  Or crack-heads (yeah, the changing attitudes about marijuana complicate this)?  Mental illness and medication is currently up for discussion, I thought. 

4. Expanding the background check requirement is not the same as actually compelling people to perform background checks for private gun transfers. Many gun owners will balk at the inconvenience and expense of finding and paying a licensed dealer who is willing to faciliate a transaction....The federal government has no such registry either, so how can it possibly hope to track transfers and make sure background checks are performed? Even with hefty criminal penalties, widespread noncompliance is a certainty.

I know people don't want to have to go through a broker to sell their guns; but I really don't see that as an excuse -- especially if we don't want felons, visa overstays, crazy people, drug addicts to own guns.  Why would anyone be okay with selling a gun to an illegal alien?  Or someone who just got out of prison for beating up his neighbor and now wants revenge?  John Hinckley Jr. is now out of stir; would it be okay to sell a gun to him?  Why isn't that irresponsible?

As I just read on another thread, aren't the serial number-owner records kept by gun dealers effectively a national registry that can only be accessed by the ATF?  If private sales go through a dealer/broker, the records would be updated.

Consider:
Transfers don't just involve sales, they involve something so simple as giving a gun to your grown son, or leaving a collection to relatives in your will. Every time a gun changes ownership, that is a transfer. Every firearm transferred legally from ancestor to progeny would again have to be paid for (transfers through an FFL aren't free, simply because of the bookkeeping involved). Some are more reasonable than others, but for an extensive collection, this adds a lot of time and a fortune in compliance costs. Other than motor vehicles and real estate, no other class of property is subject to that sort of restriction, and motor vehicles and real estate are registered in a government database. Make of that what you will, but considering that when a FFL dealer goes out of business (for whatever reason), those Form 4473s are surrendered to the BATFE, and those, in aggregate, or more likely, in some more convenient form, constitute a database.  Keeping in mind that the possession of firearms is an enumerated, protected, right, to "not be infringed", this is a violation of the letter and spirit of that protection.

TO reply to another question you had about NC, and the sheriff permit, Here in ND if you have a CCW permit you do not have to go through the NICS check. Dealers run them anyway, but it is presumed if your ND CCW permit has not been revoked that you have already been thoroughly checked out by the State Bureau of Criminal Investigation. That isn't needed to purchase a handgun, and to some extent we have Constitutional carry within the State, but the CCW permit does put you on the "good guys" list.

Otherwise, you go to the dealer, fill out the Form 4473, go through the NICS check, and purchase your handgun, often within an hour.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2018, 07:55:40 pm by Smokin Joe »
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Offline LauraTXNM

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Re: Trump to take steps to ban bump stocks
« Reply #354 on: February 24, 2018, 07:58:06 pm »
@Smokin Joe Thanks for answering!  The family transfer thing seems unnecessary to me; you should be able to pass on weapons to children, etc.  I agree with you completely.

I've wondered about selling to strangers -- that seems dangerous without a background check.
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Offline thackney

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Re: Trump to take steps to ban bump stocks
« Reply #355 on: February 24, 2018, 08:28:08 pm »
The idea was that it was cheaper and faster to get the background check that way.  The original NC poster seemed to think it was a good idea.  I'll try to find the original post again.

When I buy from the licensed dealer, the paperwork typically takes 5 minutes and the online check takes 5 minutes.  No way having to make a separate trip to someone else would be faster.  And there is no fee so I don't know how it could be cheaper.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2018, 08:28:37 pm by thackney »
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Trump to take steps to ban bump stocks
« Reply #356 on: February 24, 2018, 08:41:34 pm »
@Smokin Joe Thanks for answering!  The family transfer thing seems unnecessary to me; you should be able to pass on weapons to children, etc.  I agree with you completely.

I've wondered about selling to strangers -- that seems dangerous without a background check.
I would not sell a firearm to anyone I hadn't known for a long time, and then not some of those. That's a personal thing. I shy away from 'deals too good to be true', because I will have the numbers run to ensure a gun isn't stolen. If someone seems shifty, no deal. 
However the idea that I be able to hand my grandfather's shotgun, purchased before the Form 4473, before the NICS check, to my grandson or even great grandson some day without the Government acting as a middleman is one of the few remaining shreds of the Constitutional Liberties we had when my Grandfather gave it to me.
He bought it from a local dealer (Hardware Store), but could just have easily put a check in the mail and got a shotgun back in those days.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Elderberry

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Re: Trump to take steps to ban bump stocks
« Reply #357 on: February 24, 2018, 08:44:31 pm »
This makes sense to me.  Do you think it's appropriate?

If he has redeemed himself in the eyes of the law, his full rights should be restored.

Texas allows him to own a firearm in his home only. That's a start. He should be able to protect himself as he travels. He should be able to hunt. The Federal Govt should allow him to purchase, and possess a firearm if he is allowed by the state of Texas to own one.

Offline Suppressed

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Re: Trump to take steps to ban bump stocks
« Reply #358 on: February 24, 2018, 09:04:56 pm »
+++++++++
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Re: Trump to take steps to ban bump stocks
« Reply #359 on: February 24, 2018, 10:03:48 pm »
I would not sell a firearm to anyone I hadn't known for a long time, and then not some of those. That's a personal thing. I shy away from 'deals too good to be true', because I will have the numbers run to ensure a gun isn't stolen. If someone seems shifty, no deal. 
However the idea that I be able to hand my grandfather's shotgun, purchased before the Form 4473, before the NICS check, to my grandson or even great grandson some day without the Government acting as a middleman is one of the few remaining shreds of the Constitutional Liberties we had when my Grandfather gave it to me.
He bought it from a local dealer (Hardware Store), but could just have easily put a check in the mail and got a shotgun back in those days.

Didn't Oswald buy his 30-06 mail order?  I don't recall people getting up in arms about that back in 1963.  I think we can plant the flag of when society got stupid about guns somewhere between then and now.  However, a case can be made it was really 1934. 
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Offline RoosGirl

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Re: Trump to take steps to ban bump stocks
« Reply #360 on: February 24, 2018, 10:18:15 pm »
Didn't Oswald buy his 30-06 mail order?  I don't recall people getting up in arms about that back in 1963.  I think we can plant the flag of when society got stupid about guns somewhere between then and now.  However, a case can be made it was really 1934.

I thought it was when James Brady was shot.

Offline Elderberry

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Re: Trump to take steps to ban bump stocks
« Reply #361 on: February 24, 2018, 10:31:08 pm »
Didn't Oswald buy his 30-06 mail order?  I don't recall people getting up in arms about that back in 1963.  I think we can plant the flag of when society got stupid about guns somewhere between then and now.  However, a case can be made it was really 1934.

Yes, it was a mail order, but it was a 6.5×52mm Carcano Model 91/38.

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Re: Trump to take steps to ban bump stocks
« Reply #362 on: February 24, 2018, 10:31:20 pm »
I thought it was when James Brady was shot.

I had to sign for .22 ammo all the time in 1972 because it was usable in pistols.  I was 14 at the time, so it felt really stupid.
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Re: Trump to take steps to ban bump stocks
« Reply #363 on: February 24, 2018, 10:32:24 pm »
Yes, it was a mail order, but it was a 6.5×52mm Carcano Model 91/38.

Thanks...I had thought it was 30-06.   :shrug:
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
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Offline Elderberry

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Re: Trump to take steps to ban bump stocks
« Reply #364 on: February 24, 2018, 10:49:02 pm »
Thanks...I had thought it was 30-06.   :shrug:

I have two 6.5 rifles. A 6.5X47 Lapua and a 6.5 Grendel.

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Re: Trump to take steps to ban bump stocks
« Reply #365 on: February 24, 2018, 11:13:32 pm »
I've wondered about selling to strangers -- that seems dangerous without a background check.

@LauraTXNM

One of my baseball bats  was used later in life to criminally beat a man half to death. The cops inquired because of a symbol that I put on all I own - Someone recognized  that logo and pointed them at me.

I guess that could have been better handled, had we only titled and recorded the transfer of baseball bats, eh?

Don't laugh that off as being preposterous, because it is quite literally the same dang thing.

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Re: Trump to take steps to ban bump stocks
« Reply #366 on: February 24, 2018, 11:17:02 pm »
I will have the numbers run to ensure a gun isn't stolen. If someone seems shifty, no deal. 


I do that on every transaction on the buy side, just like with cars.

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Re: Trump to take steps to ban bump stocks
« Reply #367 on: February 24, 2018, 11:18:09 pm »
@LauraTXNM

One of my baseball bats  was used later in life to criminally beat a man half to death. The cops inquired because of a symbol that I put on all I own - Someone recognized  that logo and pointed them at me.

I guess that could have been better handled, had we only titled and recorded the transfer of baseball bats, eh?

Don't laugh that off as being preposterous, because it is quite literally the same dang thing.

Just cut to the chase and force people to get liability insurance for what they might do if they leave their property...

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Re: Trump to take steps to ban bump stocks
« Reply #368 on: February 24, 2018, 11:19:20 pm »
If he has redeemed himself in the eyes of the law, his full rights should be restored.

Texas allows him to own a firearm in his home only. That's a start. He should be able to protect himself as he travels. He should be able to hunt. The Federal Govt should allow him to purchase, and possess a firearm if he is allowed by the state of Texas to own one.

That's right. I can see an interim time to see if he reverts to his old ways... a probationary period with limits, but basically, that's right.

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Re: Trump to take steps to ban bump stocks
« Reply #369 on: February 24, 2018, 11:22:27 pm »
Just cut to the chase and force people to get liability insurance for what they might do if they leave their property...

Right. because SOMEBODY's got to pay.

Offline LauraTXNM

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Re: Trump to take steps to ban bump stocks
« Reply #370 on: February 24, 2018, 11:26:04 pm »
Just cut to the chase and force people to get liability insurance for what they might do if they leave their property...

Specifically NOT interested in insurance.   Interested in background checks.  Period.
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Re: Trump to take steps to ban bump stocks
« Reply #371 on: February 24, 2018, 11:37:09 pm »
I do that on every transaction on the buy side, just like with cars.

How do you do that? Do you have a LEO friend?
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Offline RoosGirl

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Re: Trump to take steps to ban bump stocks
« Reply #372 on: February 24, 2018, 11:39:41 pm »
How do you do that? Do you have a LEO friend?

I was wondering that also.

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Re: Trump to take steps to ban bump stocks
« Reply #373 on: February 24, 2018, 11:40:20 pm »
@LauraTXNM

One of my baseball bats  was used later in life to criminally beat a man half to death. The cops inquired because of a symbol that I put on all I own - Someone recognized  that logo and pointed them at me.

I guess that could have been better handled, had we only titled and recorded the transfer of baseball bats, eh?

Don't laugh that off as being preposterous, because it is quite literally the same dang thing.

I can see a problem for me with one of my bats.  "Hey Mr. Liberty, can you explain how this bat with Mickey Lolich and Al Kaline's signatures on it appeared at the crime scene?"
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

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Re: Trump to take steps to ban bump stocks
« Reply #374 on: February 24, 2018, 11:40:45 pm »
How do you do that? Do you have a LEO friend?

YEP. A couple.
And I tell the seller it is going to happen too... Still, every now and then you find some dumbass that is playing the bet...
And in those cases, rare though they are, my LEO friends get a collar. Which is why they are happy to reciprocate. All off the books, no fault no foul.