Republicans consider the unthinkable: A gas tax increase to pay for infrastructure

[Fantom]

Makes sense to me.   The combination of the tax bill and the recent Congressional compromise to spend more on defense and domestic priorities threatens to blow a hole in the deficit.  If we want to fix roads and bridges we have be able to pay for it.   The federal gas tax is a simple and fair way to get the revenue needed.

I certainly have no problem with "Use" taxes. A tax on fuel should cover the costs pf providing roads. But only that and no more. If you want to fund AMTRAC... bill AMTRAC riders. Same with ACELA..ACELA useres should pay the costs. Same with AIrports... put the cost on the price of a ticket.

Likewise , make sure bicycle riders share the cost, if they want to share the road.

[DB]

I was recently thinking that a tire tax might make more sense than a gas tax.  The more wear on your tires, the more wear on the road.

It's far from perfect, but probably a lot more accurate overall than a tax on a gallon of gas.

Where I am currently we go through a brand new set of Michelin tires in a year and a half (less than 30,000 miles). That's because the roads to/from our home are very windy. You would also be encouraging government to make their roads more abrasive and the theft of tires to avoid the tax.

[Emjay]

It's hilarious.... since those driving those "clean energy" vehicles are apparently clueless about the hazards of the batteries that will pollute the earth some day.  They actually think they are saving the planet...lol.  Same kind of ignorance behind those light bulbs containing mercury.  Sheer ssdd liberal stupidity, IOW.

No, it's about saving money, as in gas money.  Nothing liberal intended.

[Emjay]

 

 

Ha, ha.  It is a nice car and gets 50 MPG.  Her husband has a pickup if that makes you happier.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

This has nothing to do with reducing the deficit.  It is to spur even more spending on the state and local level.  This kind of money with strings attached scheme creates stupid projects like light rail and highways to nowhere.

No thanks.

[InHeavenThereIsNoBeer]

Where I am currently we go through a brand new set of Michelin tires in a year and a half (less than 30,000 miles). That's because the roads to/from our home are very windy. You would also be encouraging government to make their roads more abrasive and the theft of tires to avoid the tax.

Like I said, far from perfect, but better than a gas tax.

If you're going through tires because the roads are windy, that also means you're wearing down the roads faster than if they weren't windy.  Or you're buying Michelin (I don't know how they are these days, but 20-odd years ago when I paid close attention those things lasted about half as long as a Tiger Paw, though you could increase their lifetime significantly by idling away from the tire shop).

A theoretical increase in tire theft to avoid the tire tax would be offset by a theoretical decrease in gas theft to avoid the gas tax.

Like I said, far from perfect, but better than a gas tax.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

Aren't we ALREADY paying a gas tax which was promised to pay for our roads?

We are.  We are paying taxes on top of taxes with each purchase, because the property taxes, utility taxes, sales taxes, delivery taxes, and company payroll taxes are all build into the cost of everything we buy.

But how the heck can we run a government with only $4 Trillion?  It's already been trimmed to the bone by sequester. /sarc

[edpc]

Pretty soon, someone is going to introduce the idea of a nationwide toll system with FDOT tag lanes on every federal highway.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

@txradioguy

And yet, I still keep hearing I have to vote Republican in order to "save us" from the Democrats. 

When someone can adequately explain the difference between the two parties, maybe I'll listen.  But I don't see a difference.  There isn't one and probably hasn't been for decades.

The GOP has the guy with the sweetass zingers like Low Energy Jeb, and Lyin' Ted.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

Like I said, far from perfect, but better than a gas tax.

If you're going through tires because the roads are windy, that also means you're wearing down the roads faster than if they weren't windy.  Or you're buying Michelin (I don't know how they are these days, but 20-odd years ago when I paid close attention those things lasted about half as long as a Tiger Paw, though you could increase their lifetime significantly by idling away from the tire shop).

A theoretical increase in tire theft to avoid the tire tax would be offset by a theoretical decrease in gas theft to avoid the gas tax.

Like I said, far from perfect, but better than a gas tax.

Michelin uses a softer rubber to make the tires a more cushioned ride and quieter, but they wear out faster.

The bigger problem with a tire tax is people will ride their tires past the point of safety if they can't afford tires.  That causes accidents.  If someone can't afford gas they can't drive.  Plus robbing me a few dollars each week in gas taxes is less stressful than raping me hard every 6 months to a year with a much larger tire tax.

[DB]

Michelin uses a softer rubber to make the tires a more cushioned ride and quieter, but they wear out faster.

The bigger problem with a tire tax is people will ride their tires past the point of safety if they can't afford tires.  That causes accidents.  If someone can't afford gas they can't drive.  Plus robbing me a few dollars each week in gas taxes is less stressful than raping me hard every 6 months to a year with a much larger tire tax.

That is generally true about Michelins but we've had many different brands of tires on multiple cars and none have lasted very long due to the curvy road. When we move to Mesa AZ I expect that our tires will last a lot longer...

[InHeavenThereIsNoBeer]

Michelin uses a softer rubber to make the tires a more cushioned ride and quieter, but they wear out faster.

The bigger problem with a tire tax is people will ride their tires past the point of safety if they can't afford tires.  That causes accidents.  If someone can't afford gas they can't drive.  Plus robbing me a few dollars each week in gas taxes is less stressful than raping me hard every 6 months to a year with a much larger tire tax.

Good points.

I think a tire tax is a much more fair system than a gas tax since it more accurately taxes based on usage of a shared resource, but you're right -- people don't make economic decisions based on "fair".

[libertybele]

This has nothing to do with reducing the deficit.  It is to spur even more spending on the state and local level.  This kind of money with strings attached scheme creates stupid projects like light rail and highways to nowhere.

No thanks.

For once you and I agree. 

[Night Hides Not]

We are.  We are paying taxes on top of taxes with each purchase, because the property taxes, utility taxes, sales taxes, delivery taxes, and company payroll taxes are all build into the cost of everything we buy.

But how the heck can we run a government with only $4 Trillion?  It's already been trimmed to the bone by sequester. /sarc

Trump sez the government needs $4.4 trillion, a nifty 10% increase over Obama.

[libertybele]

Pretty soon, someone is going to introduce the idea of a nationwide toll system with FDOT tag lanes on every federal highway.

I have no doubt.  Trump has already made the statement that some of the infrastructure (highways) will be paid by using private contractors.  Enter Trump cronies (Giuliani included) who are going to make a fortune on the new highways and bridges and they will have tolls wherever possible paying for the highways and bridges which overtime will pay for them; meanwhile the gas tax will have increased and the tolls will always be a source of revenue.  In the beginning people will make more money and people will be back to work but inflation will soar, prices will skyrocket, taxes and deficit will be through the roof.

[txradioguy]

Aren't we ALREADY paying a gas tax which was promised to pay for our roads?

@driftdiver not just federal taxes but state and local taxes too.

 
Gasoline:

Federal - 18.40

Average of state taxes - 27.85


Diesel:

Federal - 24.40

Average of state taxes - 28.62

[driftdiver]

I have no doubt.  Trump has already made the statement that some of the infrastructure (highways) will be paid by using private contractors.  Enter Trump cronies (Giuliani included) who are going to make a fortune on the new highways and bridges and they will have tolls wherever possible paying for the highways and bridges which overtime will pay for them; meanwhile the gas tax will have increased and the tolls will always be a source of revenue.  In the beginning people will make more money and people will be back to work but inflation will soar, prices will skyrocket, taxes and deficit will be through the roof.

These already exist.   They are mostly through several layers of different organizations but the toll expressways common in many areas and the example I gave above all have a connection to private entities.

[libertybele]

These already exist.   They are mostly through several layers of different organizations but the toll expressways common in many areas and the example I gave above all have a connection to private entities.

I wonder how may Trump owns or his sons are going to own.  Ok ... here comes the criticism ... and accusations, but you watch the NAFTA superhighway will emerge joining the U.S. Mexico and Canada; which I mentioned while he was campaigning and before he was elected.

[driftdiver]

I wonder how may Trump owns or his sons are going to own.  Ok ... here comes the criticism ... and accusations, but you watch the NAFTA superhighway will emerge joining the U.S. Mexico and Canada; which I mentioned while he was campaigning and before he was elected.

@libertybele

Seems he was in real estate and not roadways.  Sounds like fakenews on your part.

Its a fact our roadways and bridges are in bad shape.   IMO its due to decades of neglect and the economic policies which force people to move to cities.   That screws up the economics of the federal road system.

Then there's the obvious corruption involved in the entire process.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

For once you and I agree.

[edpc]

I wonder how may Trump owns or his sons are going to own.  Ok ... here comes the criticism ... and accusations, but you watch the NAFTA superhighway will emerge joining the U.S. Mexico and Canada; which I mentioned while he was campaigning and before he was elected.

The one you’d probably want to keep an eye on is McConnell and his investments.  He’d have inside scoop on policy and legislation.  His wife, Elaine Chao, is Transportation Secretary.  She spoke about infrastructure today at the press briefing.

[libertybele]

@libertybele

Seems he was in real estate and not roadways.  Sounds like fakenews on your part.

Its a fact our roadways and bridges are in bad shape.   IMO its due to decades of neglect and the economic policies which force people to move to cities.   That screws up the economics of the federal road system.

Then there's the obvious corruption involved in the entire process.

Fake news?  I'm not reporting anything, I am merely stating what I have felt for quite awhile is going to occur during the Trump administration.  I have always stated that he may make improvements and get the economy going, but I wasn't sure we were going to like how he's going to get us there.  One of the 'projects' I predicted would be his improvement of infrastructure and implementing the NAFTA Superhighway connecting Mexico, US and Canada.  This has yet to be seen -- so no, I am absolutely NOT spreading fake news, rather my opinion of what I've believe has been his agenda long before he was elected.  His plan for improving infrastructure is in the works ... we'll see what happens.

[libertybele]

The one you’d probably want to keep an eye on is McConnell and his investments.  He’d have inside scoop on policy and legislation.  His wife, Elaine Chao, is Transportation Secretary.  She spoke about infrastructure today at the press briefing.

Another one to watch is Trump's buddy; Giuliani.  Granted -- these articles are very dated, the concept(s) for the most part died, but it could very well be revived under Trump.

http://www.texasturf.org/2012-06-01-03-09-30/press-releases/texas-state-wide/671-giuliani-has-ties-to-trans-texas-corridor

https://www.aim.org/aim-column/giuliani-linked-to-nafta-superhighway/

[IsailedawayfromFR]

Makes sense to me.   The combination of the tax bill and the recent Congressional compromise to spend more on defense and domestic priorities threatens to blow a hole in the deficit.  If we want to fix roads and bridges we have be able to pay for it.   The federal gas tax is a simple and fair way to get the revenue needed.

I agree it is simple, as it forces oil companies to be the tax collectors.  No tax should ever to hidden like that,  One reason I would never favor a VAT.

Fair?

In what way is that fair to people who utilize the highways for their job?

There is zero chance that any added taxes would be targeted for infrastructure anyway.  It doesn't happen now as it simply goes into the general kitty, so why should it be for the new taxes?

[Fantom]

I agree it is simple, as it forces oil companies to be the tax collectors.  No tax should ever to hidden like that,  One reason I would never favor a VAT.

Fair?

In what way is that fair to people who utilize the highways for their job?

There is zero chance that any added taxes would be targeted for infrastructure anyway.  It doesn't happen now as it simply goes into the general kitty, so why should it be for the new taxes?

Well, it does not go into the general kitty, though some of the fuel tax is diverted for non-road use. Think Acela/Amtrac and airports. As well as totally unrelated use.

However, corruption aside. Use taxes are the best possible tax. Quite Conservative..... you use it... you pay for it.