Author Topic: Chris Stewart: House Intel released memo to inform public on FBI abuses, not to exonerate Trump  (Read 8928 times)

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Offline Cyber Liberty

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Probably not.  Just look at his Cabinet.  Rick Perry is Secretary of Energy.  That is a department Perry wanted to eliminate, but couldn't remember in his famous 'oops' moment. Tom Price is now gone from Health and Human Services. Ben Carson, a brain surgeon, probably would have been better in that role but he is in charge of Housing and Urban Development - probably because Trump thought it should be a black guy.

Meh.  If I wanted to eliminate Energy, I'd probably have picked somebody who agrees with me (but Perry was not an inspired choice).  As for Ben Carson, I totally agree, he would have been perfect for HHS.  HUD is a throw-away Cabinet post, just about anybody could do it and I have no clue why Trump chose a literal Brain Surgeon for the job.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Offline jpsb

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Who knows?   That’s why they’re investigating.  Duh. If we knew what crimes he had committed, they’d be prosecuting, not investigating.  Duh.

Well there you have it.

We don't know that a crime has been committed, we have no evidence that a crime was
committed but need to investigate anyway. And this comes from a so called attorney? Rule
of law is dead in the USA if the new standard is I don't like your politics so I am going the
have the DOJ/FBI investigate you. And I am going to have them lie to the court to obtain a
warrant to spy on you.

"Show me the man and I'll find you the crime" is straight out of the USSR play book. I miss
America.

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Prior to being "interviewed" by the FBI what crime did Papadopoulos commit. Same with Gen Flynn
what crime did Flynn commit? All of these "crimes" are being manufactured by the FBI. This is
Martha Steward all over again. It is not justice, it is fascism.

I agree that Papadop and Flynn were FBI "made-up crimes" (and I don't like that.  Thought it was wrong in the Martha Stewart thing too), but Manafort got his trouble all on his own.  Papadop was a lightning rod that was practically guaranteed to draw fire, and an avoidable error.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Offline jpsb

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You missed his point:  Investigators don't act on proven commissions of crime, they act on probable cause.

The correct question would be, "What's the probable cause here?"

Fine so what crime would "probable cause" indicate Trump committed? The FBI is suppose to
investigate crime. I just want to know what Trump crime it is that the FBI is investigating.

Offline edpc

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Prior to being "interviewed" by the FBI what crime did Papadopoulos commit. Same with Gen Flynn what crime did Flynn commit? All of these "crimes" are being manufactured by the FBI. This is Martha Steward all over again. It is not justice, it is fascism.


Popadopulous didn't necessarily do anything wrong by contacting foreign agents.  However, he wasn't caught in some 'gotcha' game - he straight up lied in the interview.  As far as Flynn goes, he and Manafort both failed to properly register under the Foreign Agents Registration Act (FARA) of 1938.  Their activities related to it are not often prosecuted, but it is a violation of the law and occurred years ago.
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Offline Fantom

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Whatever.  You have your mind made up, and no amount of facts will ever change it, so please, enjoy playing with your strawmen and other little trinkets. 

Carry on, child, carry on.

LOL, trigger warning!


Someone cannot handle answering to their own  idio......er logic it seems.

Pity @Oceander , I thought better of you.

The fact is, one does not have an investigation in search of a crime. That is how the Stassi do it. Given the events with the FBI, I now understand how the East Germans felt.

No Oceander, one investigates with the probable cause of a crime. When the very basis of ones "investigation" is shown to be based on false info..lies , then the investigation is stopped, and those who put forth the lies which started a false investigation are themselves investigated, charged, tried and hopefully jailed.

That is the thin line of rule by law, or a banana republic/Stassi State.

It would seem you are guilty of projecting your own failings onto others. Namely.... having one's mind made up.

Carry on. It is at least amusing to watch such a yoga lesson in logic.  :silly:
« Last Edit: February 04, 2018, 06:16:01 pm by Fantom »
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Offline driftdiver

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I don’t have evidence and, generally speaking, the cops don’t have to have sufficient evidence that proves all the elements of a crime before they start investigating a crime.  Duh. 

What there is are some stupid moves by a disorganized idiot, namely Trump and his campaign, that gave rise to the appearance of possible criminal conduct.  And all the cops need to investigate is that appearance. 

If you’d stop worshipping Trump as an infallible saint, you might see just how large are his feet of clay, and just how they got him into this predicament.

So after more than a year of investigating and there's still no evidence a crime was committed but we need more time.

Meanwhile we have clear evidence of crimes by the FBI but we need to not jump to conclusions.
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Oceander

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Well there you have it.

We don't know that a crime has been committed, we have no evidence that a crime was
committed but need to investigate anyway. And this comes from a so called attorney? Rule
of law is dead in the USA if the new standard is I don't like your politics so I am going the
have the DOJ/FBI investigate you. And I am going to have them lie to the court to obtain a
warrant to spy on you.

"Show me the man and I'll find you the crime" is straight out of the USSR play book. I miss
America.

We do have, amongst other things, an offer to provide hacked emails.  How much cooperation was there on that?  We don’t know yet.  We have a guy who was already investigated once for being a Russian agent being hired as a campaign adviser and then trying to make connections with the Russians again. 

None of that proves all the elements of a crime, but it does provide enough smoke to give some people the basis for wondering if there’s any fire there. 

Probably there isn’t any fire there - Trump is too damned stupid in my opinion to have done something criminal that required guile and sophistication - but Trump did put out enough smoke, mostly through his own incompetence, that he brought this thing on himself.

Offline ConstitutionRose

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Prior to being "interviewed" by the FBI what crime did Papadopoulos commit. Same with Gen Flynn
what crime did Flynn commit? All of these "crimes" are being manufactured by the FBI. This is
Martha Steward all over again. It is not justice, it is fascism.

On this point, you and I absolutely agree.  So far Mueller has charged no one with a crime other than lying.  If these gentlemen had been forthcoming, it is entirely possible that they would not have been charged at all.  If Mueller had any evidence they had committed a real crime, it seems he would have charged them with that.  Even if he had to wait a bit to get the goods on them. 

I personally think there is nothing there. 
"Old man can't is dead.  I helped bury him."  Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas quoting his grandfather.

Offline driftdiver

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Fine so what crime would "probable cause" indicate Trump committed? The FBI is suppose to
investigate crime. I just want to know what Trump crime it is that the FBI is investigating.

@jpsb

They let us know when they find something.   They can't worry about all the details they have a presidency to bring down
Fools mock, tongues wag, babies cry and goats bleat.

Oceander

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So after more than a year of investigating and there's still no evidence a crime was committed but we need more time.

Meanwhile we have clear evidence of crimes by the FBI but we need to not jump to conclusions.

So if it’s so damned clear the DOJ and FBI were committing crimes, why hadn’t Trump at least made efforts to have another special counsel appointed to investigate all these crimes?

Online mountaineer

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So if it’s so damned clear the DOJ and FBI were committing crimes, why hadn’t Trump at least made efforts to have another special counsel appointed to investigate all these crimes?
Perhaps the memo will be the impetus to appoint a special prosecutor. It certainly seems to be appropriate.
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Offline edpc

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On this point, you and I absolutely agree.  So far Mueller has charged no one with a crime other than lying.  If these gentlemen had been forthcoming, it is entirely possible that they would not have been charged at all.  If Mueller had any evidence they had committed a real crime, it seems he would have charged them with that.  Even if he had to wait a bit to get the goods on them. 

I personally think there is nothing there.


Ummmmm......no.  This was fairly big news about Manafort just a few months ago.

The indictment contains 12 counts: conspiracy against the United States, conspiracy to launder money, unregistered agent of a foreign principal, false and misleading FARA statements, false statements, and seven counts of failure to file reports of foreign bank and financial accounts.

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/10/30/former-trump-campaign-chairman-paul-manafort-indicted-as-part-of-russia-election-probe-nyt.html
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Offline Concerned

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So if it’s so damned clear the DOJ and FBI were committing crimes, why hadn’t Trump at least made efforts to have another special counsel appointed to investigate all these crimes?

Exactly right IMO.  If someone was really interested in getting to the bottom of this and holding people accountable, I'd expect they'd be screaming at the top of their lungs:  special counsel, special counsel, special counsel (or Congressional hearing, Congressional hearing, Congressional hearing).  Instead, we've got public releases of partial classified information for clearly political reasons.  Releasing the memo to the public doesn't do anything for getting on a path of truly finding the guilty and holding them accountable.  JMO.
I adore facts and data and abhor lies and liars.

Offline jpsb

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On this point, you and I absolutely agree.  So far Mueller has charged no one with a crime other than lying.  If these gentlemen had been forthcoming, it is entirely possible that they would not have been charged at all.  If Mueller had any evidence they had committed a real crime, it seems he would have charged them with that.  Even if he had to wait a bit to get the goods on them. 

I personally think there is nothing there.

I don't know about Papadopoulos but I'd bet dollars to donuts that Gen Flynn did not lie to
FBI agent Peter Struck (sp). DOJ/FBI broke Mike Flynn, he could not afford fight them. He sold
his home everything he owned, bankrupted and broken he coped a plea. This is not justice it
is tyranny and it needs to stop.

Offline driftdiver

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On this point, you and I absolutely agree.  So far Mueller has charged no one with a crime other than lying.  If these gentlemen had been forthcoming, it is entirely possible that they would not have been charged at all.  If Mueller had any evidence they had committed a real crime, it seems he would have charged them with that.  Even if he had to wait a bit to get the goods on them. 

I personally think there is nothing there.

@ConstitutionRose

From what I heard they asked Flynn about a call he made two years earlier.  Flynn didn't remember the call accurately.  Meanwhile they had the call recorded and knew what he said.

So he got charged with lying.  How accurately do you remember calls you made two years ago.   Seems to me he was too forthcoming.  If he said 'I don't recall' they couldn't have trapped him.
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Oceander

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LOL, trigger warning!


Someone cannot handle answering to their own  idio......er logic it seems.

Pity @Oceander , I thought better of you.

The fact is, one does not have an investigation in search of a crime. That is how the Stassi do it. Given the events with the FBI, I now understand how the East Germans felt.

No Oceander, one investigates with the probable cause of a crime. When the very basis of ones "investigation" is shown to be based on false info..lies , then the investigation is stopped, and those who put forth the lies which started a false investigation are themselves investigated, charged, tried and hopefully jailed.

That is the thin line of rule by law, or a banana republic/Stassi State.

It would seem you are guilty of projecting your own failings onto others. Namely.... having one's mind made up.

Carry on. It is at least amusing to watch such a yoga lesson in logic.  :silly:

Hiring someone who was trying to illegally hook up with Russian agents back in 2013 as a campaign adviser on foreign affairs, and then having this same moron start trying to get involved with the Russians again suggests that there is probable cause to believe the campaign might be illegally involved with Russian agents. 

Meeting with Russians who are offering access to hacked emails and other information gives probable cause to believe that there might be a conspiracy to gain unlawful access to computer data, or possession of stolen computer data. 

Probable cause deals in probsbilities, not certainties, so none of these possibilities has to be true.

Furthermore, the cops don’t even need probable cause to start an investigation; probable cause is generally the requirement for a warrant to issue of an arrest to be made. 

A reasonable suspicion, which is less than probable cause, would almost certainly be enough to justify an investigation. 

And Trump, through his own stupidity and incompetence, allowed his campaign staff to do things that gave rise to a basis for suspicion. 

You want to point fingers?  Point them and the incompetent boob sitting in the White House and his propensity for hiring idiots and rubes without adequate vetting.  He finally seems to be learning from his mistakes, so he’s not irredeemable, but he is largely to blame for having given the democrats this opportunity. 

Offline jpsb

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Perhaps the memo will be the impetus to appoint a special prosecutor. It certainly seems to be appropriate.

There are two  more reports due out by Spring. One by Sen Grassley and one by the DOJ
Inspector General. If they also allege basis or criminality by either the DOJ or the FBI Sessions
will have no choice but to appoint another SC. The American people will not trust DOJ/FBI
investigating themselves.

Offline jpsb

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@ConstitutionRose

From what I heard they asked Flynn about a call he made two years earlier.  Flynn didn't remember the call accurately.  Meanwhile they had the call recorded and knew what he said.

So he got charged with lying.  How accurately do you remember calls you made two years ago.   Seems to me he was too forthcoming.  If he said 'I don't recall' they couldn't have trapped him.

Flynn was ambushed, he did not even know he was being "interviewed" he thought FBI agent
Peter Struck (sp) just stopped by for a friendly chat.

Oceander

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There are two  more reports due out by Spring. One by Sen Grassley and one by the DOJ
Inspector General. If they also allege basis or criminality by either the DOJ or the FBI Sessions
will have no choice but to appoint another SC. The American people will not trust DOJ/FBI
investigating themselves.

I hope you’re correct, and I look forward to these next reports.

Oceander

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Flynn was ambushed, he did not even know he was being "interviewed" he thought FBI agent
Peter Struck (sp) just stopped by for a friendly chat.

Yeah, because FBI agents who aren’t your personal friends for years always stop by for casual friendly chats. 

Offline driftdiver

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Yeah, because FBI agents who aren’t your personal friends for years always stop by for casual friendly chats.

When you're a powerful general they do.   
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Offline jpsb

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When you're a powerful general they do.

When you are the National Security Advisor to an incoming president, yes they do come by for
a chat. Gen Flynn was ambushed.

Oceander

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When you're a powerful general they do.   

Baloney.  Any idiot who thinks an FBI agent who isn’t a personal friend is not on the clock deserves what he gets. 

Oceander

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When you are the National Security Advisor to an incoming president, yes they do come by for
a chat. Gen Flynn was ambushed.

He wasn’t ambushed.  He set himself up.  Why?  Because like Trump he suffers from a certain degree of ego-driven stupidity.