Author Topic: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case  (Read 44259 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Oceander

  • Guest
Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #675 on: January 05, 2018, 12:51:01 am »
As I said of our discussion earlier in this thread, readers will reach their own conclusions.

I still hold no ill will for you, but unfortunately it's because I've concluded you simply aren't worth the effort.

Neither are you.  I’m sitting on the train home with nothing else to do and most of the other threads are just boring. 

Offline edpc

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,879
  • Gender: Male
  • Professional Misanthrope - Briefer and Boxer
Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #676 on: January 05, 2018, 12:51:05 am »
I guess you never heard of Nineveh then.

I have, but I've also heard of Revelations 21:1, so there's no correlation.  There won't be an Earth, much less a United States to spare.
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Online roamer_1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43,289
Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #677 on: January 05, 2018, 12:51:26 am »
It’s that different people respond differently.  Don’t be so parochial as to assume that every is, or ought to be, just like you.

Not the point.
The bias held against me is not a protected class. That's the difference.
Not that I would do such a thing in the first place, but that they can and I can't is the actual inequality.
They are not simply getting treated like everyone else, nor is that their aim, in aggregate.

Oceander

  • Guest
Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #678 on: January 05, 2018, 12:53:12 am »
Not the point.
The bias held against me is not a protected class. That's the difference.
Not that I would do such a thing in the first place, but that they can and I can't is the actual inequality.
They are not simply getting treated like everyone else, nor is that their aim, in aggregate.

Actually, it is their aim, in the aggregate.  If you treated them like people instead of like subhuman monsters, you’d know that.

Online roamer_1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43,289
Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #679 on: January 05, 2018, 12:53:38 am »
I have, but I've also heard of Revelations 21:1, so there's no correlation.  There won't be an Earth, much less a United States to spare.

You are surely reading that one wrong.

Online Cyber Liberty

  • Coffee! Donuts! Kittens!
  • Administrator
  • ******
  • Posts: 79,867
  • Gender: Male
  • 🌵🌵🌵
Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #680 on: January 05, 2018, 12:54:08 am »
Being denied service because of some irrelevant characteristic that goes to the core of who you are is not just “hurt feelings”.

Let's examine the two things.  If you sell me real estate, then take the money and don't give me title, I go to the Fraud section at the police department where they are waiting with handcuffs for you as soon as I swear out a complaint.  At which department do I show up if the core of who I am is hurt?

Dood, you analogy is off, and I suggest you leave it and find another.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline INVAR

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,961
  • Gender: Male
  • Dread To Tread
    • Sword At The Ready
Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #681 on: January 05, 2018, 12:55:27 am »
I have, but I've also heard of Revelations 21:1, so there's no correlation.  There won't be an Earth, much less a United States to spare.

That doesn't give us license to accept the Mark of evil in our thoughts or actions by serving behaviors that lead to eternal death.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Online Cyber Liberty

  • Coffee! Donuts! Kittens!
  • Administrator
  • ******
  • Posts: 79,867
  • Gender: Male
  • 🌵🌵🌵
Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #682 on: January 05, 2018, 12:56:08 am »
Neither are you.  I’m sitting on the train home with nothing else to do and most of the other threads are just boring.

They are.  I could cough up a nice gravy recipe you might like, but then we'd bore everybody else.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Online roamer_1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43,289
Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #683 on: January 05, 2018, 01:03:00 am »
Actually, it is their aim, in the aggregate.  If you treated them like people instead of like subhuman monsters, you’d know that.

No, it is not. Their aim in aggregate is to impose their morality, by any means necessary - The same as the feminists, and every other liberal sect, The very thing you accuse Christians of.
Watch and see.

And I treat them as I do anyone else. It is their agenda that I rise against. That is a hard thing for a liberal mind to dissect.


Offline IsailedawayfromFR

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,746
Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #684 on: January 05, 2018, 01:04:13 am »
So the absolutist is the person whom *you say* will resort to violence.  Very convenient.  There is a related legal term for that kind of thinking.  It's called "prior restraint."

I thought a lot of the people arguing against you here were unnecessarily antagonistic, but I see now that your position *is* pure prejudice.
Glad you finally realized that.  This is not the first thread where his prejudice rears its head, hence our automatic reflex to bump back, and hard.  If it seems unnecessary, so be it, as myself and others rebut him in order to ensure what he says does not stand without challenge.

And BTW, someone who calls himself 'Chief Dork' establishes his position in any argument as combative.
No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

Oceander

  • Guest
Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #685 on: January 05, 2018, 01:04:25 am »
No, it is not. Their aim in aggregate is to impose their morality, by any means necessary - The same as the feminists, and every other liberal sect, The very thing you accuse Christians of.
Watch and see.

And I treat them as I do anyone else. It is their agenda that I rise against. That is a hard thing for a liberal mind to dissect.



No, it’s not.  Something you would know if you treated them as individuals and as people instead of as subhuman monsters. 

Offline jpsb

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,141
  • Gender: Male
Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #686 on: January 05, 2018, 01:04:43 am »
So the absolutist is the person whom *you say* will resort to violence.  Very convenient.  There is a related legal term for that kind of thinking.  It's called "prior restraint."

I thought a lot of the people arguing against you here were unnecessarily antagonistic, but I see now that your position *is* pure prejudice.

Arguing with big gov liberals (Marxists) is pretty much a waste of time.

Oceander

  • Guest
Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #687 on: January 05, 2018, 01:05:52 am »
Arguing with big gov liberals (Marxists) is pretty much a waste of time.

:bigsilly:

Online roamer_1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43,289
Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #688 on: January 05, 2018, 01:07:07 am »
No, it’s not.  Something you would know if you treated them as individuals and as people instead of as subhuman monsters.

Like I said, a hard thing for a liberal mind to dissect.

Oceander

  • Guest
Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #689 on: January 05, 2018, 01:08:41 am »
Like I said, a hard thing for a liberal mind to dissect.

Whatever, snowflake.

Offline edpc

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,879
  • Gender: Male
  • Professional Misanthrope - Briefer and Boxer
Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #690 on: January 05, 2018, 01:08:59 am »
That doesn't give us license to accept the Mark of evil in our thoughts or actions by serving behaviors that lead to eternal death.

No, but it should give those who don't subscribe to it license to be free from the oppression of those that do.  You're all set, so you don't need to be concerned with this temporary world.
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Offline HoustonSam

  • "That'll be the day......"
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,982
  • Gender: Male
  • old times there are not forgotten
Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #691 on: January 05, 2018, 01:20:11 am »
Glad you finally realized that.  This is not the first thread where his prejudice rears its head, hence our automatic reflex to bump back, and hard.  If it seems unnecessary, so be it, as myself and others rebut him in order to ensure what he says does not stand without challenge.

And BTW, someone who calls himself 'Chief Dork' establishes his position in any argument as combative.

@IsailedawayfromFR @jpsb

It seems only fair to give people a chance to make their case, and I don't spend enough time here to have a reasonable basis to anticipate someone's position or their tendencies in discussion; I'm willing to let someone run on a bit, and to recognize that we all choose our words and our arguments ineffectively at times.  That in itself doesn't make one a bad person.

But there are limits to my intellectual indulgence.  Compounding non-sequitur with name calling is one of those limits because it demonstrates that the other guy is simply not up to speed, whether morally or mentally I can't tell.  At some point you have to call it what it seems to be.

I appreciate that some are willing to continue a response to prejudice and illogic, I'm not sure I care that much.  People can see it for what it is.
James 1:20

Offline goodwithagun

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,543
  • Gender: Female
Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #692 on: January 05, 2018, 01:29:57 am »
No, it’s not.  Something you would know if you treated them as individuals and as people instead of as subhuman monsters.

It’s difficult to treat homosexuals as individuals when they identify based on their group. Much like other liberals, they identify as lgbtqrstuvwxyz-American. Everything with liberal groups is hyphenated American. In the case of homosexuals, they put the bedroom before the hyphen. I’ve never “identified” as a heterosexual-American, a Caucasian-American, a teacher-American, etc. That’s because I don’t need my “group” to determine my “individuality,” which is an impossibility. Groups don’t determine individuality. Individuals do.
I stand with Roosgirl.

Offline Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 56,397
  • I was a "conspiracy theorist". Now I'm just right.
Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #693 on: January 05, 2018, 08:36:20 am »
How is acting like a cruel and bigoted jerk towards an innocent girl the "exercise of religion"?
ENOUGH!

QUIT CALLING PEOPLE BIGOTS FOR SAYING THEY BELIEVE WHAT OTHER PEOPLE ARE DOING IS WRONG.
We didn't make up the rules which say so. Ancient writings say so, biology says so (homosexuality is nonprocreative--nothing to further the species), anatomy and physiology demonstrate how the human body was not designed to be used in certain ways. Asserting otherwise until you turn blue will not change what is.
It is as if we are branded bigots for saying, no, Jazzhead, two plus three does not equal seven.

No name you call me or anyone else, no force you exert will ever change the fact that it is wrong.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2018, 08:43:01 am by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Luis Gonzalez

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7,621
  • Gender: Male
    • Boiling Frogs
Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #694 on: January 05, 2018, 11:13:13 am »
When doing evil is a requirement of doing business, that's when we move into the "Mark of the Beast" territory.

To a Muslim, doing evil is defined as drawing cartoons of Muhammad, an their duty in the face of such evil is to kill the evil doer.

To French people drawing cartoons of Muhammad giving oral sex to another man is defined as freedom and a right.

How does your statement apply to the obvious dichotomy above?
"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, i have others." - Groucho Marx

Offline verga

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9,702
  • Gender: Male
Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #695 on: January 05, 2018, 11:13:36 am »
ENOUGH!

QUIT CALLING PEOPLE BIGOTS FOR SAYING THEY BELIEVE WHAT OTHER PEOPLE ARE DOING IS WRONG.
We didn't make up the rules which say so. Ancient writings say so, biology says so (homosexuality is nonprocreative--nothing to further the species), anatomy and physiology demonstrate how the human body was not designed to be used in certain ways. Asserting otherwise until you turn blue will not change what is.
It is as if we are branded bigots for saying, no, Jazzhead, two plus three does not equal seven.

No name you call me or anyone else, no force you exert will ever change the fact that it is wrong.

@Smokin Joe  :thumbsup: This should also have been addressed to Oceander as well. I had to put both of them on ignore over this topic, their responses are to nuts. At first i thought they were both just jerking some chain, but now I am convinced they actually believe the nonsense they are spewing.
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
�More than any other time in history, mankind faces a crossroads. One path leads to despair and utter hopelessness. The other, to total extinction. Let us pray we have the wisdom to choose correctly.�-Woody Allen
If God invented marathons to keep people from doing anything more stupid, the triathlon must have taken him completely by surprise.

Offline Luis Gonzalez

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7,621
  • Gender: Male
    • Boiling Frogs
Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #696 on: January 05, 2018, 12:09:44 pm »
@Luis Gonzalez

Pretty much their only solution.  In fact, I expect to see a lot of bakeries do this preemptively all around the country.  All "wedding cakes" will be made by some protected group.  I disagree moving the business to another state would make them safe, I think all States have some law that can be bastardized enough to find a tort.  Lawyers can be pretty resourceful that way.

(Hey, Merry Christmas to youse guys!)

And a Happy New Year to you and yours!

Here's the thing.

I can't walk into a Kosher caterer and ask that BLTs be served in my wedding then accuse the caterers of doing something unlawful, because they don't sell bacon to anyone.

This bakery baked wedding cakes. To say hat they wouldn't make one for a same-sex couple is unlawful in Oregon. The bakers had the choice to NOT bake the cake and violate the law, but that doesn't protect them from the legal consequences of their decision.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2018, 12:10:18 pm by Luis Gonzalez »
"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, i have others." - Groucho Marx

Online Cyber Liberty

  • Coffee! Donuts! Kittens!
  • Administrator
  • ******
  • Posts: 79,867
  • Gender: Male
  • 🌵🌵🌵
Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #697 on: January 05, 2018, 12:54:19 pm »
And a Happy New Year to you and yours!

Here's the thing.

I can't walk into a Kosher caterer and ask that BLTs be served in my wedding then accuse the caterers of doing something unlawful, because they don't sell bacon to anyone.

This bakery baked wedding cakes. To say hat they wouldn't make one for a same-sex couple is unlawful in Oregon. The bakers had the choice to NOT bake the cake and violate the law, but that doesn't protect them from the legal consequences of their decision.

The store in question doesn't anymore, and in a few years nobody will.  They're fattening anyway, and the diet nannies will be thrilled at the win they get without firing a shot.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline HoustonSam

  • "That'll be the day......"
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,982
  • Gender: Male
  • old times there are not forgotten
Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #698 on: January 05, 2018, 01:16:34 pm »
ENOUGH!

QUIT CALLING PEOPLE BIGOTS FOR SAYING THEY BELIEVE WHAT OTHER PEOPLE ARE DOING IS WRONG.
We didn't make up the rules which say so. Ancient writings say so, biology says so (homosexuality is nonprocreative--nothing to further the species), anatomy and physiology demonstrate how the human body was not designed to be used in certain ways. Asserting otherwise until you turn blue will not change what is.
It is as if we are branded bigots for saying, no, Jazzhead, two plus three does not equal seven.

No name you call me or anyone else, no force you exert will ever change the fact that it is wrong.


It's just an admission of defeat.

When "bigot" is the primary premise that defeat is a forfeit, when "snowflake" is the conclusion babbled from a tantrum that defeat is a rout.  Either way when someone resorts to labeling people rather than testing ideas, they reveal that they know they've lost, or that they are not competent even to recognize it.

Enjoy the victory lap.
James 1:20

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,746
Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #699 on: January 05, 2018, 01:29:54 pm »
@IsailedawayfromFR @jpsb

It seems only fair to give people a chance to make their case, and I don't spend enough time here to have a reasonable basis to anticipate someone's position or their tendencies in discussion; I'm willing to let someone run on a bit, and to recognize that we all choose our words and our arguments ineffectively at times.  That in itself doesn't make one a bad person.

But there are limits to my intellectual indulgence.  Compounding non-sequitur with name calling is one of those limits because it demonstrates that the other guy is simply not up to speed, whether morally or mentally I can't tell.  At some point you have to call it what it seems to be.

I appreciate that some are willing to continue a response to prejudice and illogic, I'm not sure I care that much.  People can see it for what it is.
Thanks for the mature thoughts.  I'll start the new year trying a bit harder, although it is tough.
No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington