Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case

[goodwithagun]

The secured a business license in a State where applicable laws outlaws denying people goods or services as a result of their sexual orientation.

They broke the law and they will pay fines etc. as a result of their actions.

It's really crystal clear.

Just because something is law doesn’t make it right. Read Thoreau’s “Resistance to Civil Government”. It’s one of my favorite essays.

[Suppressed]

No, they discriminated. They sat down with one of the women and her mother to discuss a cake.  One of the first questions was who the bride and groom were.  When told that there was no groom, only two brides, the baker point blank refused to make a cake for such a wedding.  The mother and daughter returned to their car, and when the mother then went back to the store to try and reason with them, was told that it was an abomination.  In other words, they were already to make a cake until they learned the sexual orientation of the two women, at which point they refused to provide the service they were only too happy to provide when they thought there was a groom as well as a bride.

Different cake. They'd agreed to a wedding cake.  Not a lesbian wedding cake.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

Did they say that they did NOT investigate and prosecute discrimination in public accommodations?  If they didn’t, then they didn’t lie. 

Actually, I just checked it myself, and they say that part of their mission is to protect access to public accommodations free fron discrimination, so not only did they not lie, they expressly covered this case.

Are you possibly arguing that an omission is a right?

How could you possibly come to such an inescapably wrong, boneheaded conclusion?

Wait,  You could be a lawyer.  Or a liberal.

Ok, which is it?

[IsailedawayfromFR]

Give you a gun, and you’re no better than ISIS.

If that is all the defense you have, I an truly sorry what you will report when the time comes.

It will not be good for you.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

@Cyber Liberty

@RoosGirl

Sometimes it's not strickly about winning as much as it is sticking up for what is right against what is wrong.

Exactly.

There is no way in hell that any idiot who backs this castration of a baker and his liberty will ever be accepted by me.

And many are like me, they just do not pronounce it.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

Whatever.  You clearly do not want to accept the result and no amount of argument will change your mind.  Too bad.

A clear avoidance.

@HoustonSam  beat you, and badly.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

The secured a business license in a State where applicable laws outlaws denying people goods or services as a result of their sexual orientation.

They broke the law and they will pay fines etc. as a result of their actions.

It's really crystal clear.

Is it really crystal clear?

Did the law come before or after them securing a license?

Or did you just whip that little tidbit up out of the air to make a statement?

[INVAR]

Is it really crystal clear?

Did the law come before after them securing a license?

Or did you just whip that little tidbit up out of the air to make a statement?

I doesn't matter when or whom decrees such "laws" or whom 'passes' them into "law".

Any "law" that contravenes the Supreme Laws of God and the foundational precepts of the biblical religions that were foundational to our covenants of governance since the Mayflower Compact - is no "law" any Christian or person of biblical faith and adherence is obligated to follow or obey.

He is duty-bound to disobey such "laws".

Sure there will be 'consequences' for refusal to obey evil as commanded.  I am certain the advocates and pushers of such tyranny are not going to like them at all.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

Bull. 

You just don’t want to accept the reality that is there before your very nose. 

Oregon law defines a public accommodation in a way that includes this bakery.  It then forbids discrimination on the basis of, amongst other things, sexual orientation by the proprietor of a public accommodation.  Very simple. 

The bakery cannot under Oregon law discriminate against someone on the basis of sexual orientation, which is what they did when they refused to bake a cake, any cake at all, for a lesbian wedding. 

The question is whether the law amounts to an unconstitutional infringement of the bakers’ right to freedom of expression and freedom of religion, and under intermediate scrutiny, it does not, according to the Oregon court, in a well written opinion that does acknowledge the closeness of the issue. 

Issues of compelled speech in similar circumstances have been mitigated before, and have generally been upheld.  So the bakers face an uphill battle.

You still failed to say how the mission statement of a public entity decided to engage in practice outside its own mission statement on its own website.

Can you not say that is a failed entity?

Wow, silence.  For once.

[Luis Gonzalez]

It really isn't crystal clear @Luis Gonzalez --- hence the "debate".

The baker did not deny a service he provides because the couple was gay.  Had this same couple ordered a cake to celebrate a birthday, the cake would have been provided.  What the baker did was decline to use his talent to create a cake to celebrate an occasion he cannot celebrate based on his religious beliefs.

Again .... the creation of that one cake, for that one occasion was denied --- any other cake for the same gay couple would have been provided.

Finding actual discrimination without trampling on the first amendment is the challenge before the Supreme Court.

There is no debate really. There's just a bunch of people not willing to accept the outcome of the orderly and Constitutional system of due process.

The law in Oregon is clear... there will be no sexual orientation-based discrimination in Oregon.

The process was clear and all involved were recipients of their Constitutionally-guaranteed rights to due process and equity under the laws.

The bakers were found guilty of breaking the law.

Whether we agree or disagree with a law is irrelevant and will not protect us from being subject to it.

We're either a nation of laws, or a chaotic, anarchist society where everyone is governed by their own ideas and emotions. 

As an individual who identifies with right-of-center political ideology, I believe that we should be a nation of laws.

[Frank Cannon]

[Luis Gonzalez]

Any "law" that contravenes the Supreme Laws of God and the foundational precepts of the biblical religions that were foundational to our covenants of governance since the Mayflower Compact - is no "law" any Christian or person of biblical faith and adherence is obligated to follow or obey.

So then, every year that these bakers renewed their business license after the anti sexual orientation laws were passed, they were willfully committing fraud. 

is that the Christian thing to do?

[Luis Gonzalez]

Is it really crystal clear?

Did the law come before or after them securing a license?

Or did you just whip that little tidbit up out of the air to make a statement?

Irrelevant.

You can't be grandfathered into disregarding laws.

P.S. Business licenses are renewed yearly, and in renewing your license you agree to conduct your business according to all current and applicable laws.

[Luis Gonzalez]

Just because something is law doesn’t make it right. Read Thoreau’s “Resistance to Civil Government”. It’s one of my favorite essays.

I've read it several times.

Thoreau went to jail.

[Oceander]

You still failed to say how the mission statement of a public entity decided to engage in practice outside its own mission statement on its own website.

Can you not say that is a failed entity?

Wow, silence.  For once.

/snicker

You didn’t even bother reading that mission statement.  It clearly states that part of BOLI’s mission is enforcing the law against discrimination in public accommodations, which is precisely what it was doing when it pursued the bakers. 

Try reading instead of assuming it means what you want it to mean. 

[Oceander]

A clear avoidance.

@HoustonSam  beat you, and badly.

/snicker

From the “man” who can’t even read a simple mission statement on BOLI’s website. 

[IsailedawayfromFR]

Irrelevant.

You can't be grandfathered into disregarding laws.

P.S. Business licenses are renewed yearly, and in renewing your license you agree to conduct your business according to all current and applicable laws.

That is NOT what you said.

You said directly that "The secured a business license in a State where applicable laws outlaws denying people goods or services as a result of their sexual orientation."

Now you deviate to say it makes no difference.

So why make a statement that you cannot back up?  Why?

[INVAR]

Whether we agree or disagree with a law is irrelevant and will not protect us from being subject to it.

And the Nazis passed 'laws' to criminalize the Jews, seize their property, consign them to ghettos and euthanize 'the unproductive'.

The Crown passed 'Laws" to seize the arms of the Colonists.

No "law" that contravenes the covenant laws of scripture that undergird every covenant this nation has agreed to is a 'law' any obedient follower of God has to obey.

When government usurps God's authority to redefine marriage and force acceptance of behavior His Word declares evil, such government has voided any legitimate authority a Christian is obligated to render it.  Jonathan Mayhew made that argument clear from the scriptures in the lead-up to to the Declaration of Independence itself.

So then, every year that these bakers renewed their business license after the anti sexual orientation laws were passed, they were willfully committing fraud. 

is that the Christian thing to do?

You can make that argument for getting Christians to accept the mark of the Beast all you like.

[Oceander]

Different cake. They'd agreed to a wedding cake.  Not a lesbian wedding cake.

Nope.  They sold wedding cakes, without hyphenation or qualification.  They aren’t Christians, they’re close-minded bigots who misuse Christianity to justify their own prejudices and think that puts them above the law. 

[IsailedawayfromFR]

/snicker

From the “man” who can’t even read a simple mission statement on BOLI’s website.

For the obvious person on this thread who cannot read, here's a second chance for you:

http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,296957.msg1560633.html#msg1560633

Where on this mission statement do you, the challenged reader, read that BOLI's job is to pursue discrimination in a business/customer relationship?

[IsailedawayfromFR]

Nope.  They sold wedding cakes, without hyphenation or qualification.  They aren’t Christians, they’re close-minded bigots who misuse Christianity to justify their own prejudices and think that puts them above the law.

Wow, the self-proclaimed Dork has passed the judgement upon them.

Let us all cower so the Dork can continue to persecute all who stand in his way.

[Oceander]

For the obvious person on this thread who cannot read, here's a second chance for you:

http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,296957.msg1560633.html#msg1560633

Where on this mission statement do you, the challenged reader, read that BOLI's job is to pursue discrimination in a business/customer relationship?

It is part of its mission to prevent discrimination in public accommodations, and the bakery in this case is a “public accommodation” as defined in the Oregon statutute.

Try understanding what you read; it’ll help.

[Oceander]

Wow, the self-proclaimed Dork has passed the judgement upon them.

Let us all cower so the Dork can continue to persecute all who stand in his way.

Thanks for conceding.  You lose. 

[Jazzhead]

Nope.  They sold wedding cakes, without hyphenation or qualification.  They aren’t Christians, they’re close-minded bigots who misuse Christianity to justify their own prejudices and think that puts them above the law.

Bingo.   The good Christians I know would have served this couple like any other. 

[DCPatriot]

Bingo.   The good Christians I know would have served this couple like any other.

Eggsactly!   There are 'extremes' practiced in every ideology.

We have members here that never hesitate to rub our faces in their biblical 'goodness'

Say a rosary. 

Then bake the damned cake.