Author Topic: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case  (Read 24083 times)

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Offline Suppressed

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Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #800 on: January 06, 2018, 06:29:36 PM »
Fascism is simply a political and economic system in which the means of production are in private hands (ownership) but the Government dictates what is made and when.

That's the economic portion of Fascism. But Fascism was far more than that...after all, look at the name itself.  It's from the fasces, a bundle of wooden sticks or rods...the idea being that the nation is stronger than the individual people. 

Nationalism is a foundation stone of fascism.
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Online Hoodat

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Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #801 on: January 06, 2018, 11:44:16 PM »
He has already stated that his desire is to empower the state to punish 'bigots'.

Isn't that bigoted?
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Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #802 on: January 06, 2018, 11:48:06 PM »
@sneakypete @Suppressed :

Fascism is simply a political and economic system in which the means of production are in private hands (ownership) but the Government dictates what is made and when.

To simplify, the only thing that separates fascism from communism is the pretense of property ownership.  Sure, the fascist government will let the factory owner think he owns the factory.  But if he fails to meet the quota for the product he is demanded to produce, his factory will be taken from him and given to someone else.
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Offline INVAR

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Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #803 on: January 07, 2018, 12:37:08 AM »
Isn't that bigoted?

Not that I could discern.  From what he repeated several times, homosexuality is just as good, moral and as righteous and wholesome as those who engage in normal marital sex.  Those who view that behavior as sinful and perverted are declared bigots and a blight on society that the government should be empowered to punish so as to 'correct' our thinking and beliefs.

Reeducation camps are something our resident Leftist could be expected to support and argue in favor of, especially in light of his comments that compulsory labor can be administered to force private business owners to serve deviant behaviors in the name of anti-discrimination laws.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #804 on: January 07, 2018, 12:42:23 AM »
True for large concerns with sizable balance sheets, but a Mom & Pop outfit with a low cash flow can easily be driven into Bankruptcy by a six-figure fine.

If everyone who's allegedly concerned about these bakers simply puts their money where their mouth is, the fine would be paid in a flash.

Most people just want to bitch about things. Backing their words with action is too much trouble.
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The talk about persecution of Christians in the US is laughable. Being expected to allow others to be able to do something that goes against one's morals isn't persecution. Some Christians today behave very much like our culture's newest phenomenons... the perpetually offended snowflakes traumatized by the things that exist outside of their approval spheres.

How many Coptic Christians are killed yearly around the world?

Yet, there are still Coptic Christians in the world.

What to see what being a persecuted Christian is like?

Read up n what being a Christian in India is like.

Being a Christian in North Korea, where the only safe place to worship is your outhouse, is an absolute act of unbelievable faith. 

THOSE are examples of persecution of Christians. And they don't even get to bitch about it on the Internet. 
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Offline Frank Cannon

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Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #805 on: January 07, 2018, 12:43:26 AM »
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #806 on: January 07, 2018, 01:20:38 AM »
To simplify, the only thing that separates fascism from communism is the pretense of property ownership.  Sure, the fascist government will let the factory owner think he owns the factory.  But if he fails to meet the quota for the product he is demanded to produce, his factory will be taken from him and given to someone else.

@Hoodat

I honestly don't understand how anyone can fail to recognize that absolute fact. EVERY totalitarian government since the dawn of history has worked from the same blueprint.

Yeah,the communists love to PRETEND that "the state" owns all production,but they fail to admit that the Party Leaders own the state. The reality is they were no different than any other dictators in history,which can be summed up as "Mine,mine,MINE,DAMMIT!"

And the modern reality is that our present day "Corporate World" is nothing but fascism wearing a fancy dress. Nobody really owns any of the big corporations. Many,many people "own" tiny little pieces of it,but they might be worth a lot of money one day,and nothing the next if "the market" determines they are worthless.

"The Market" ain't thee and me. "The Market" is controlled by the international banks. They give,and they take away,according to their needs at the moment.

Pay VERY close attention to the way modern corporations are ran,because unless there are drastic changes made,the entire world will be ran by corporate boards within another 20-30 years,and each "subsidiary" will report to "World Wide Government,Inc",which will itself be populated by the most powerful financiers from each region of the world,and they will have total control over every aspect of your descendants lives,including where they live,how the live,where they work,how many children they can have IF they are allowed to have children at all,how old you are allowed to get before company policy decides to pull your plug  based on a cost/benefit chart,etc,etc,etc.

At one point in American history our government controlled the corporations to keep them from becoming too powerful and subverting the Constitution. Now the corporations own the politicians and keep them in line.


 
« Last Edit: January 07, 2018, 01:31:56 AM by sneakypete »
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Offline INVAR

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Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #807 on: January 07, 2018, 01:59:25 AM »

What to see what being a persecuted Christian is like?

Read up n what being a Christian in India is like.

Ask me.  I can tell you all about it.

I lived in the slums with persecuted brethren in Andrha Pradesh, India.  I've seen what real persecution actually looks like.

An underlying cultural belief system that creates institutions that make such persecution of Christians legal, lawful, permissible and culturally accepted might seem an impossibility here - yet history is replete with cultures that were made legal persecutors of the faith, and Christ Himself warned that such persecution was going to plague His people at the end of the Age.

We are not ready to endure what I witnessed.  That much I can promise.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

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Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #808 on: January 07, 2018, 02:06:07 AM »
If everyone who's allegedly concerned about these bakers simply puts their money where their mouth is, the fine would be paid in a flash.

Not if they expect goFundMe or any of those types of websites.  They've already refused to allow fund raisers for others found guilty of denial of service to gays.  Now, their friends in the Church, probably true, unless the state prohibits it.  There are laws that prohibit the paying of fines by third partied.  It's how some states prevent sexual harassers from having fines paid by their companies, for example.  If the state's intent is to bankrupt the business, they will.  I'm surprised they didn't just revoke their license.

Not going to argue with any of the rest of the post, because I haven't the foggiest idea.
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Offline bigheadfred

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Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #809 on: January 07, 2018, 06:17:55 AM »



Offline HoustonSam

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Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #810 on: January 07, 2018, 08:52:29 AM »
If everyone who's allegedly concerned about these bakers simply puts their money where their mouth is, the fine would be paid in a flash.

If everyone who's alledegly concerned about homosexuals having custom wedding cakes would simply bake the cakes, the cakes would be ready in a flash.

The position your suggesting here is just stupid.  You're actually suggesting that people should have to pay punitive fines in order to practice freedom of conscience.

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Most people just want to bitch about things. Backing their words with action is too much trouble.

I agree entirely.  Buy some flour and eggs and icing and get to work, no one is stopping you.

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The talk about persecution of Christians in the US is laughable.
What to see what being a persecuted Christian is like?

Read up n what being a Christian in India is like.

Being a Christian in North Korea, where the only safe place to worship is your outhouse, is an absolute act of unbelievable faith. 

THOSE are examples of persecution of Christians. And they don't even get to bitch about it on the Internet.

The talk about homosexuals losing their rights in the US is laughable.  Want to see what a homosexual losing his rights is like?  Read  up on what being a homosexual under fundamental Islam is like.  Being a homosexual under ISIS, where you get thrown off the top of a building, is an absolute act of unbelievable integrity.  THOSE are examples of homosexuals losing their rights, and they don't even get to bitch about it in court.

Not only is the position you're taking stupid, actually fundamentally meaningless, it's trivially easy to reverse your statements to demonstrate the flaws in your thought.  "You would have it worse elsewhere" is true for everyone in the United States, and contributes precisely zero insight or understanding to the discussion.

You aren't even stating the situation honestly : "Being expected to allow others to be able to do something that goes against one's morals isn't persecution."  The bakers aren't trying to disallow anything.  In no sense are they attempting to inhibit the homosexual couples from maintaining their own relationships or conducting their own ceremonies.  In no sense have the bakers taken a single action to influence what the homosexuals believe or practice.  You, however, advocate using the force of law to do that very thing : to prevent others from doing something that violates your morals.  You've actually numbered yourself among "the perpetually offended snowflakes traumatized by the things that exist outside of their approval spheres."

Your position is that our society is more just when government uses bankrupting punitive fines to compel a baker to prepare a cake for a ceremony he finds repugnant, than when someone has to shop at more than one bakery to get that cake.

Defend *that* position.

Now based on your posts here so far I expect you to argue that the bakers broke the law, they have to pay the fine.  Practically speaking that's true, but it contributes no insight to this discussion.  Is it your position that the law is morally right because it's the law?  If not then you'll need to defend your position's logic, not its legality.  If so, then you better start studying up on the Fugitive Slave Act because I'm going to have a lot of questions for you @Luis Gonzalez.
James 1:20

Offline HoustonSam

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Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #811 on: January 07, 2018, 09:07:08 AM »
Reeducation camps are something our resident Leftist could be expected to support and argue in favor of, especially in light of his comments that compulsory labor can be administered to force private business owners to serve deviant behaviors in the name of anti-discrimination laws.

Oh come on, @INVAR, I don't really think @Jazzhead has argued (yet.....) that you and I can be marched off to labor camps.  This is what I mean by being reasonable.  There is plenty solid ground for us to argue in favor of our position and against his, don't intentionally take up ground that isn't defensible.
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #812 on: January 07, 2018, 09:24:20 AM »

   
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Those who view that behavior as sinful and perverted are declared bigots


Big whoop. Guess what? You ARE a bigot.

So am I. So is everyone else that has an opinion about anything. Having the freedom to be a outspoken bigot is ESSENTIAL to maintaining a free country. I laugh in the face of anybody in "fleshworld" that calls me a bigot and tell them they even someone as "enlightened" as them is either a bigot or a mindless retard.

Until and unless everyone can learn to accept that little factoid,and then accept the next logical step,which is to accept that people are individuals with a RIGHT to their own opinions about anything so long as they don't try to get laws passed to punish people for disagreeing with them on social issues. We are ALL free to hate or love anyone we want as long as we don't try to cause them harm.

THIS is where the bigotry of organized religion rears it's ugly head,and goes wrong as well as becomes evil. Devoutly religious people seem to have a tendency to want to have government pass laws that punish people that don't follow THEIR religious dictates.

 
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and a blight on society that the government should be empowered to punish so as to 'correct' our thinking and beliefs. 

They are right and you are wrong. It ain't America if religions can dictate morality and use the government as a tool to punish "sinners".  We are governed by the US Constitution,not your or anyone else's "Holy Book".  Punishing sinners is the business of your God,providing your God exists.

@INVAR
« Last Edit: January 07, 2018, 09:26:17 AM by sneakypete »
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #813 on: January 07, 2018, 09:39:15 AM »

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If everyone who's allegedly concerned about these bakers simply puts their money where their mouth is, the fine would be paid in a flash.

@Luis Gonzalez 

Putting a band-aid on a tumor. The problem is NOT that the government is punishing those bakers for making the mistake of thinking they are free citizens,the problem is that our government thinks they have the right to punish ANYONE for thinking they are in control of their own lives.


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Most people just want to bitch about things. Backing their words with action is too much trouble.
.

There are only two ways to change laws. You either bitch enough to attract the attention of the legislators that write the laws,or you start a revolution. Which do YOU think is the best method to follow?


Quote
The talk about persecution of Christians in the US is laughable. Being expected to allow others to be able to do something that goes against one's morals isn't persecution. Some Christians today behave very much like our culture's newest phenomenons... the perpetually offended snowflakes traumatized by the things that exist outside of their approval spheres.

I'm with ya on that one. Truer words were never spoken.

HOWEVER,this is about MUCH more than a Christian business man exercising his RIGHT to be in control of his own actions. It's about a out of control government EXERCISING ALLEGED "RIGHTS" THAT WE,THE PEOPLE,NEVER GAVE THEM.

We are either all free to live our lives as we see fit as long as we aren't causing ACTUAL harm to innocents,or we are serfs/slaves of the government. One or the other. We can't be both.

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How many Coptic Christians are killed yearly around the world?

Irrelevant to this discussion.The key issue here is individual freedoms in America,INCLUDING the freedom to worship as you choose and live your life according to your  beliefs AS LONG AS YOU ARE NOT CAUSING ACTUAL HARM to others.

Hurt feelings that lead to hissy-fits are NOT actual harm.

That homo couple had every right and opportunity to go to another baker and have their cake baked,just like the baker had a right to not bake that cake if he didn't want to bake it.

And it has NOTHING to do with religious beliefs. He had a right to not bake that cake if he just didn't feel like baking it,or even if he had a personal policy of not baking cakes on Thursday,for example. He is a citizen and an independent businessman,NOT a slave of the state.
 

 
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Schlapp repeatedly pressed Cuomo to “name the crime” that would be listed on the articles of impeachment for President Donald Trump. “There’s no need for a crime,” Cuomo responded.

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #814 on: January 07, 2018, 09:47:45 AM »
Oh come on, @INVAR, I don't really think @Jazzhead has argued (yet.....) that you and I can be marched off to labor camps.  This is what I mean by being reasonable.  There is plenty solid ground for us to argue in favor of our position and against his, don't intentionally take up ground that isn't defensible.

Oh, c'mon,  HS.   In your post #810 above,  you appear to mock the concerns of homosexuals in America,  noting that real prejudice is to be found in the actions of ISIS.   Well, what do you think ISIS is but religious zealotry taken to an extreme degree?   And how is INVAR really any different, with his moral certitude, hubris, and intolerance backed up by implied threats of violence?   His is the poison of Christian sharia,  claiming a right to ignore the reasonable rules of the secular community,  and to rebel with arms against our Constitutional republic.

And he, of course, casts himself as the victim,  alleging that folks like me who support the community's reasonable rules seek to march him off to a labor camp.   He has more freedom to practice his faith in this country than in any other nation on earth.   But it is not, of course, enough, unless he can rob others of their rights and dignity.  My neighbors are not "perverts" and "deviants", and I will continue to defend them.
 
« Last Edit: January 07, 2018, 09:58:32 AM by Jazzhead »
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #815 on: January 07, 2018, 09:49:36 AM »


- yet history is replete with cultures that were made legal persecutors of the faith, and Christ Himself warned that such persecution was going to plague His people at the end of the Age.
Quote

Well,it DID seem that way when I was growing up,but somewhere along the line all that changed,and it seems entirely possible in an America where a Christian businessman can be ran out of business and into bankruptcy for not baking a cake that conflicted with his religious viewpoints.

In fact,it seems inevitable.

For those of you who don't care because you don't think this applies to you need to take some history lessons because even a casual study of police state governments since the dawn of time will tell you that once they have all the Christians under control,they will come after followers of other religions,and once they have all the religious believers under control,they will come for the rest of us.

It is the NATURE of governments to seek more and more power. Our Founding Fathers understood this well,and that is why they wrote the US Constitution with a Bill of Rights.

We as individuals may be devoutly religious or we may be heathens. We might be heterosexual,homosexual,or even Tri/Try-sexual. We might be black,white,red,yellow,or even have polka dots. Or anything in-between,or even an endless combination of those things and more. None of that matters. What matters is the one thing that unites as all is that we are SUPPPOSED to all be citizens with EQUAL RIGHTS and the maximum amount of individual freedoms.

NONE of us have to love one another,but we DO  have to learn to TOLERATE each other and to recognize that we are either ALL free,or NONE of us are free.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2018, 09:51:56 AM by sneakypete »
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Offline HoustonSam

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Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #816 on: January 07, 2018, 09:59:03 AM »
Oh, c'mon,  HS.   In your post above,  you appear to mock the concerns of homosexuals in America,  noting that real prejudice is to be found in the actions of ISIS.   Well, what do you think ISIS is but religious zealotry taken to an extreme degree?   And how is INVAR really any different, with his moral certitude, hubris, and intolerance all backed up by implied threats of violence?   His is the poison of Christian sharia,  claiming a right to ignore the reasonable rules of the secular community,  and to rebel with arms against our Constitutional republic.
 

Actually @Jazzhead I'm surprised that you would do anything but join me in a call for reasonable discussion.   Do you, like @INVAR , prefer ceaseless name-calling?

I was mocking @Luis Gonzalez , not homosexuals.  In fact I challenge you to find a single word I've written in this thread, or elsewhere, that in any sense mocks or demeans homosexuals.

I agree that ISIS is religious zealotry taken to extreme degree.  I don't know that @INVAR has called (yet...) for homosexuals to be thrown off of buildings, and I'll stand by the public requests I've already made of him, in this thread, to debate reasonably.

And while I've got you here, do you consider that you have answered the questions you invited me to re-post, and which I did in 766?
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Offline HoustonSam

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Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #817 on: January 07, 2018, 10:09:38 AM »
My neighbors are not "perverts" and "deviants", and I will continue to defend them.

Nor are Christian business people "bigots", so I'm sure you'll respect that I will continue to defend them.
James 1:20

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #818 on: January 07, 2018, 10:10:28 AM »
Actually @Jazzhead I'm surprised that you would do anything but join me in a call for reasonable discussion.   Do you, like @INVAR , prefer ceaseless name-calling?

I was mocking @Luis Gonzalez , not homosexuals.  In fact I challenge you to find a single word I've written in this thread, or elsewhere, that in any sense mocks or demeans homosexuals.

I agree that ISIS is religious zealotry taken to extreme degree.  I don't know that @INVAR has called (yet...) for homosexuals to be thrown off of buildings, and I'll stand by the public requests I've already made of him, in this thread, to debate reasonably.

And while I've got you here, do you consider that you have answered the questions you invited me to re-post, and which I did in 766?

HS,  I've enjoyed your participation on these threads.   I believe you argue fairly and seek to engage folks like me with whom you disagree with substance and logic rather than name-calling.   And no,  I am not aware that you have said anything disparaging toward homosexuals - I was just pointing out, using your post as a pivot point,  that ISIS is merely an extreme example of religious zealotry,  and INVAR is a good illustration that Christians are just as capable of hubris, intolerance, and the rhetoric of violence.   

I hope I've answered your questions about my position on this issue to your satisfaction;  if not,  feel free to follow up and I'll try my best to respond.
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Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #819 on: January 07, 2018, 10:11:18 AM »
Nor are Christian business people "bigots", so I'm sure you'll respect that I will continue to defend them.

And I do.

Edit:   But please don't misunderstand me.   I don't believe Christian business people are bigots.  To the contrary,  I've more than once sought out the services of folks who have advertised the fact that they are Christians.  Christian business people, in my experience,  tend to be honest and fair in their dealings.   

Yes, I've called the Oregon baker a bigot, and believe that he is.  But that's because of his actions to humiliate his customer and politicize her request for his services, not the fact he is Christian.   The Christians I know would have served this woman like any other - after all,  my general view of Christian business people is that they abide by their word. 
« Last Edit: January 07, 2018, 10:25:23 AM by Jazzhead »
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Offline Bigun

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Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #820 on: January 07, 2018, 10:22:01 AM »
The Left's False Vision of Economics and Morality

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Commentaries by the left repeatedly emphasize the words "fairness," "morality," "equality," "community," and "the poor."  According to the left, morality and fairness are economic concepts, not biblically based, divinely approved commands.  Morality and fairness are undermined by "disparity."  The rich, and possibly those awful, fanatical, and outrageously hypocritical conservative Christians, are disrupting "community" (sometimes referred to as the "global village").  Without the distractions of Christians and conservatives, there would be much more social coherence, fairness, community, and even better weather!

http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2018/01/the_lefts_false_vision_of_economics_and_morality.html

Sounds like a very good description of some who post here to me!

Offline DCPatriot

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Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #821 on: January 07, 2018, 10:36:23 AM »
Oh come on, @INVAR, I don't really think @Jazzhead has argued (yet.....) that you and I can be marched off to labor camps.  This is what I mean by being reasonable.  There is plenty solid ground for us to argue in favor of our position and against his, don't intentionally take up ground that isn't defensible.

Thank you for point that out to him, @HoustonSam  @INVAR ... 

Soon as pulled that card, everything he posts appears as "blah, blah, blah" on my screens.

Would love to entertain your definition of "reasonable" debate, here without being compared with the staff at Auschwitz.   *****rollingeyes*****
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Offline goatprairie

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Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #822 on: January 07, 2018, 10:42:29 AM »
The Left's False Vision of Economics and Morality

http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2018/01/the_lefts_false_vision_of_economics_and_morality.html

Sounds like a very good description of some who post here to me!
I've yet to get an answer from any of the posters here who like the idea of the state forcing a business to make something it doesn't want to make whether if they ran a business, they'd do exactly as (to them) an obnoxious customer demands.
That is the crux of the matter. Again, religion and art are subordinate to the principle of a business being allowed to manufacture what it does without being forced to do so.
I can't believe some of the comments by the pro-force posters. "Well, it's just a cake...bake the cake" they say. Well then, some Nazis (legal group) demand I make them a sign with Nazi symbols.  Would these same people say "make the sign...it's just a sign" ? They don't answer.
Of course, what is really the problem is they just don't understand the antipathy many Christian people have towards homosexuality no matter how often the proponents of homosexuality shout how normal it is.
But even I agree that in many matters homosexuals should not be discriminated against.
But again, that is not the crux of this matter WHICH THE PRO-FORCE CROWD STILL DOES NOT UNDERSTAND. The crux is a business should not be forced to make something it doesn't want to make.
Serving is not the same thing as creating/making/manufacuring. I don't know how many times that has to be repeated before it sinks in.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2018, 10:44:51 AM by goatprairie »

Offline DCPatriot

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Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #823 on: January 07, 2018, 10:51:16 AM »
And I do.

Edit:   But please don't misunderstand me.   I don't believe Christian business people are bigots.  To the contrary,  I've more than once sought out the services of folks who have advertised the fact that they are Christians.  Christian business people, in my experience,  tend to be honest and fair in their dealings.   

Yes, I've called the Oregon baker a bigot, and believe that he is.  But that's because of his actions to humiliate his customer and politicize her request for his services, not the fact he is Christian.   The Christians I know would have served this woman like any other - after all,  my general view of Christian business people is that they abide by their word.

@Jazzhead

Every good political forum needs 'Jazzheads'.   Principled, pragmatic Conservatives!

We're very lucky to have you here, and want to congratulate your decorum in the face of so much moral haughtiness.   :patriot:
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"Journalism is about covering the news.  With a pillow.  Until it stops moving."    - Iowahawk

Whatever you're doing today, do it with all the confidence of a four-year-old wearing a Batman tee-shirt.

Offline goatprairie

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Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #824 on: January 07, 2018, 10:58:45 AM »
@Jazzhead

Every good political forum needs 'Jazzheads'.   Principled, pragmatic Conservatives!

We're very lucky to have you here, and want to congratulate your decorum in the face of so much moral haughtiness.   :patriot:
"to congratulate your decorum in the face of so much moral haughtiness."

People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw  stones. 


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