Author Topic: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case  (Read 44243 times)

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Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #775 on: January 06, 2018, 04:50:21 am »
With this I agree.   The amount of the fine is unconscionable,  and the result is that, although the baker broke the law,  the tyranny inherent in the trier's discretion to award such a punitive sum because of, let's face it, a cultural difference of opinion, represents a true injustice.

The amount of the fine is irrelevant.

The fine will be paid without the bakers taking one tin dime out of their pockets.
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Offline Frank Cannon

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Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #776 on: January 06, 2018, 04:52:46 am »
The Baker in question will have died of old age and this shitshow thread is going to keep on going. Swell.


Offline bigheadfred

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Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #777 on: January 06, 2018, 05:16:00 am »
What it all comes down to is respect. Eff the Constitution. Eff your laws. The homo agenda demands respect, the courts are backing that, but neither one shows any respect. Not one bit. Why should I respect that?
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Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #778 on: January 06, 2018, 01:01:21 pm »
What it all comes down to is respect. Eff the Constitution. Eff your laws. The homo agenda demands respect, the courts are backing that, but neither one shows any respect. Not one bit. Why should I respect that?

Yep!  @Frank Cannon is right.   This thread needs to die.

Your post is meant to incite.

And your question has been answered a dozen times here.


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Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #779 on: January 06, 2018, 01:04:00 pm »
No, they aren't fascists. Fascism is rooted in nationalism, and they have no patriotism or loyalty to this country.

@Suppressed

Did you ever try to explain that to Stalin,Hitler,or Mussonlini?

Or maybe you think that Globalism isn't Fascism/Nationalism on steroids?

Fascism is NOT about borders. It is about a police-state government. It has ALWAYS been about global control/One World Government,but prior to the 70's there was a lot of competition about which Maximum Ruler would be THE Maximum Ruler.

Seems to ME,that starting sometime in the 70's the Corporate financiers took control away from the politicians and the politicians are just their employees now,as they seek a Fascist Word Government controlled by a Corporate Board based on the UN model to try to keep the regional corporate boards under control.

Any way you want to cut it,when the dust settles there WILL be a One World Government in control of the only military allowed to exist,and you will only be cogs in the machine,working for the company that controls the area you live in,living in a company house,riding a company bus to work,and shopping in company stores. Like in the old USSR,if you are a model employee who snitches on your co-workers,you may even be allowed to vacation at "drone level" company resorts

You can dress that pig up in an evening gown and even put lipstick on it if you want,but it's still Fascism with capital letters.
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Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #780 on: January 06, 2018, 01:09:47 pm »
@Suppressed

Did you ever try to explain that to Stalin,Hitler,or Mussonlini?

Or maybe you think that Globalism isn't Fascism/Nationalism on steroids?

Fascism is NOT about borders. It is about a police-state government. It has ALWAYS been about global control/One World Government,but prior to the 70's there was a lot of competition about which Maximum Ruler would be THE Maximum Ruler.

Seems to ME,that starting sometime in the 70's the Corporate financiers took control away from the politicians and the politicians are just their employees now,as they seek a Fascist Word Government controlled by a Corporate Board based on the UN model to try to keep the regional corporate boards under control.

Any way you want to cut it,when the dust settles there WILL be a One World Government in control of the only military allowed to exist,and you will only be cogs in the machine,working for the company that controls the area you live in,living in a company house,riding a company bus to work,and shopping in company stores. Like in the old USSR,if you are a model employee who snitches on your co-workers,you may even be allowed to vacation at "drone level" company resorts

You can dress that pig up in an evening gown and even put lipstick on it if you want,but it's still Fascism with capital letters.

Fascism is national socialism, a la Hitler and Mussolini, whereas communism is international socialism, a la Stalin. 

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Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #781 on: January 06, 2018, 01:12:29 pm »
The majority of the membership here are not unreasonable Leftists that lie about who and what they are while vehemently advocating policies anathema to Conservatism, while pretending to claim what they are not.

 

@INVAR

IMNSHO,it is personal POV causing definition disagreements at the heart of most of the disagreements. Some people identify the word "Conservative" with their religious beliefs associated with how they are required to live their personal lives. Others identify it purely with political beliefs on how to run a government.

There ain't NEVER going to be a middle ground because religious orthodoxy does NOT recognize the word "compromise". They are all about Dogma.

In this respect,there is damn little difference between Christians,Jews,Muslims,Hare Krisnas,etc,etc,etc. because "God doesn't compromise,he dictates."
« Last Edit: January 06, 2018, 01:15:41 pm by sneakypete »
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Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #782 on: January 06, 2018, 01:17:14 pm »
Fascism is national socialism, a la Hitler and Mussolini, whereas communism is international socialism, a la Stalin.

@Oceander

That must be why Hitler never tried to take over any other countries,huh?
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #783 on: January 06, 2018, 02:23:23 pm »
Christian (and American) culture is a couple devoted in mutuality and love for life (at least),  paying heed and respect to each other, and together being productive and peaceable members of the community. 

Just like my neighbors.   And doesn't it just make your blood boil that such good people might seek their rights and your respect?
No, but the lack of respect for the deeply held beliefs of those bakers pisses me right off.
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Offline HoustonSam

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Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #784 on: January 06, 2018, 02:53:13 pm »
Just like my neighbors.   And doesn't it just make your blood boil that such good people might seek their rights and your respect?

While it is difficult to get through @INVAR's fire and brimstone, I don't think he has an issue with anyone seeking his respect.  I think he has an issue that you would enlist the implied threat of violence which is inherently part of government authority to extort from him at the cost of his livelihood the form of respect for something he finds repugnant, in order to soothe someone else's hurt feelings.

I have an issue with that also @Jazzhead.

At its root that is what this comes down to : the assertion that the hurt feelings of any particular demographic are more worthy of government protection than the right to one's labor and one's conscience.  You can again describe public accommodations laws and protected classes and call other people names, but you cannot change the fundamental implication of your position.  Had the issue been the right to procure necessities - food, clothing, medical care - then much more than hurt feelings would have been involved, and I would have joined you in advocating government protection of the right to purchase.  But there simply is no right to not have one's feelings hurt.

You've alluded to your neighbors more than once in this thread.  I commend your affirming and supportive impulse toward those neighbors; I'm sure you're a dependable and respectful neighbor who makes your community a better place to live, the kind of man I'd like to have next door to me.  But by referencing your sympathy for your neighbors you're engaging in the same tribalism you rightfully deride in other posts.  Your tribe is simply those for whom you have first-hand sympathy.  Is that not the basis of all tribalism?

Ordered liberty cannot be preserved by appeals to emotion based on personal sympathy.  If hurt feelings truly are more important than property and conscience, this Republic will soon pass.
James 1:20

Offline Suppressed

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Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #785 on: January 06, 2018, 03:49:44 pm »
@Oceander

That must be why Hitler never tried to take over any other countries,huh?

It was always the Germanic peoples ruling. He didn't set up Vichy government for the freedom of the French -- it was for Germany's benefit.

If you want to redefine a term into the opposite of how everyone -- including its originators -- define it, you're going to have a hard time.  It's typically a leftist tactic, to argue by redefinition; it's interesting you propose conservatives try it.
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Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #786 on: January 06, 2018, 03:58:00 pm »
The amount of the fine is irrelevant.

The fine will be paid without the bakers taking one tin dime out of their pockets.

True for large concerns with sizable balance sheets, but a Mom & Pop outfit with a low cash flow can easily be driven into Bankruptcy by a six-figure fine.
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Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #787 on: January 06, 2018, 04:07:03 pm »
@Oceander

That must be why Hitler never tried to take over any other countries,huh?

Don’t be stupid.

Offline INVAR

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Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #788 on: January 06, 2018, 05:27:03 pm »
There ain't NEVER going to be a middle ground because religious orthodoxy does NOT recognize the word "compromise". They are all about Dogma.

Liberty should never be required to compromise. The moment it is, we no longer have liberty - but license, granted by government that can be rescinded by government any time of its own choosing or at the behest of a mob.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

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Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #789 on: January 06, 2018, 08:36:25 pm »
Quote
It was always the Germanic peoples ruling. He didn't set up Vichy government for the freedom of the French -- it was for Germany's benefit.

@Suppressed

Thank you for agreeing with it. It was a Fascist dictatorship. ALL Fascist governments are dictatorships because it is government from the top down,and the people are little more than slaves following orders.

Quote
If you want to redefine a term into the opposite of how everyone -- including its originators -- define it, you're going to have a hard time.  It's typically a leftist tactic, to argue by redefinition; it's interesting you propose conservatives try it.

ROFLMAO! Do you even read or think about what you write? Here you are,essentially defending Hitler and Fascism,and telling me I am wrong all in the same sentence.
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Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #790 on: January 06, 2018, 08:39:15 pm »
Don’t be stupid.

@Oceander

*I* am the one that is stupid by claiming Nazi Germany was a Fascist Police State set on conquering and enslaving their neighbors???

You DO know that Nazi Germany and the USSR were allies with a mutual defense treaty right up to the instant the Nazi's invaded the USSR,right?
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Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #791 on: January 06, 2018, 08:40:46 pm »
Liberty should never be required to compromise. The moment it is, we no longer have liberty - but license, granted by government that can be rescinded by government any time of its own choosing or at the behest of a mob.

@INVAR

BRAVO!  888high58888

I will even throw in a  :amen: for good measure.
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Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #792 on: January 06, 2018, 08:56:39 pm »
@Oceander

*I* am the one that is stupid by claiming Nazi Germany was a Fascist Police State set on conquering and enslaving their neighbors???

You DO know that Nazi Germany and the USSR were allies with a mutual defense treaty right up to the instant the Nazi's invaded the USSR,right?

Of course the Nazis were fascists. The Soviets were not; they were communists. 

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Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #793 on: January 06, 2018, 09:27:06 pm »
Of course the Nazis were fascists. The Soviets were not; they were communists.

Communists are exasperated Socialists.

There's 'Fascism' in both their DNA.

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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #794 on: January 06, 2018, 09:33:58 pm »
It was always the Germanic peoples ruling. He didn't set up Vichy government for the freedom of the French -- it was for Germany's benefit.

If you want to redefine a term into the opposite of how everyone -- including its originators -- define it, you're going to have a hard time.  It's typically a leftist tactic, to argue by redefinition; it's interesting you propose conservatives try it.
@sneakypete @Suppressed :

Fascism is simply a political and economic system in which the means of production are in private hands (ownership) but the Government dictates what is made and when.

All the Totalitarianism involved is simply the means of imposing that system and enforcing it on people who otherwise would not put up with that shit.  Whether "Communist", "Fascist", or what we have that passes for "Capitalism", Whatever you call it: "Democracy", a "Republic", an Oligarchy, or a Dictatorship (Military, political, or Monarchical) the more the Government is used as a force to impose the will of others on the producer, the more totalitarian the system becomes. 

We have reached an age when that which in the past has failed to be instituted at the point of a bayonet will be clamored for because of the 'convenience' the technology represents, but the option of force remains for use against those who have the temerity to demand that they not only are "free" but have the right to assert that freedom in practice, even to the point of rejecting such technological convenience. 

All that is required is sufficient information and the surveillance capabilities to bring the wrath of those who will decide what is or is not appropriate upon those who think they have Liberty. That is being gathered increasingly, and the ability to process and mine that data has increased far beyond the totalitarian wet dreams of those notable despots in history. Through credit card, 'savers clubs' and other forms of information gathering, your average daily caloric intake, and what sorts of foods can be estimated with reasonable accuracy. That accuracy will only matter to you, because control is the bottom line, and with control and state provision of health care, all you eat and do becomes a matter of public concern (after all "they" are paying for it).

With the clear ability of the powers that be to manipulate the emotions of the masses, something which will overwhelm logic and rationality every time, it will not take long to eliminate those enemies of the State who resist, and profile information gathered to date will just make them easier to track down.

In the meantime we are only told we have to celebrate unnatural activities which have led to the spread of a lethal disease, that tobacco is bad and Marijuana good (an argument I will not pursue here), and that we have to exercise to be "healthy" (and join the ranks of the ten million people who suffer sports injuries in any given year).
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #795 on: January 06, 2018, 09:35:55 pm »
The amount of the fine is irrelevant.

The fine will be paid without the bakers taking one tin dime out of their pockets.
You are correct. The amount of the fine is not the issue. That there IS a fine, any fine, is.

It is the establishment of precedent that a person can be forced to create that which they find to be morally or otherwise offensive that is the real problem here.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

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Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #796 on: January 06, 2018, 10:41:32 pm »
Of course the Nazis were fascists. The Soviets were not; they were communists.

@Oceander

Gimme a bleeping break! Same critter,different disguise.
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Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #797 on: January 06, 2018, 10:49:33 pm »
You are correct. The amount of the fine is not the issue. That there IS a fine, any fine, is.

It is the establishment of precedent that a person can be forced to create that which they find to be morally or otherwise offensive that is the real problem here.

@Smokin Joe

And there ya have it. If you grant the government the power to dictate to you what you are "allowed" to consider moral or immoral,you have just granted them to power to make ALL your decisions for you.

Remember back 20-30 years ago when all the big "public interest" lawsuits you heard about on network teebee were lawsuits to EXPAND individual freedoms?

Now it all seems to be about expanding obligations.

Once again I will quote that internationally recognized deep thinker Googer Gore,and write "Whut wuz one up iz now doawn,n whut wuz once doawn iz now up!"

I have to admit,this crap has me longing for the "good old days".
« Last Edit: January 06, 2018, 10:50:07 pm by sneakypete »
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Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #798 on: January 06, 2018, 11:25:32 pm »
@Oceander

Gimme a bleeping break! Same critter,different disguise.

Their bullets hurt, both of them.
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Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #799 on: January 06, 2018, 11:28:37 pm »
Remember back 20-30 years ago when all the big "public interest" lawsuits you heard about on network teebee were lawsuits to EXPAND individual freedoms?

Now it all seems to be about expanding obligations.

You and I both know they meant "individual freedoms" for some, but not all.  Especially not for thee and me.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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