Author Topic: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case  (Read 24039 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Right_in_Virginia

  • TBR Contributor
  • *****
  • Posts: 41,440
Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« on: December 28, 2017, 06:55:01 PM »
Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
Washington Post, Dec 28, 2017, Steven Dubois | AP

PORTLAND, Ore. — An appellate court Thursday upheld a penalty against Oregon bakery owners who refused to make a cake for a same-sex wedding almost five years ago.

The owners of the since-closed Gresham bakery — Aaron and Melissa Klein — argued that state Labor Commissioner Brad Avakian violated state and federal laws by forcing them to pay emotional-distress damages of $135,000 to the lesbian couple.

Their lawyers said Avakian and the state Bureau of Labor and Industries violated the Kleins’ rights as artists to free speech, their rights to religious freedom and their rights as defendants to a due process.


More: https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/court-rules-against-oregon-bakers-in-wedding-cake-case/2017/12/28/e4ac9d7c-ec01-11e7-956e-baea358f9725_story.html?utm_term=.5fcc1240995f
"January 20th 2017 will be remembered as the day the people became the rulers of this nation again."  --  President Donald J. Trump

Offline Right_in_Virginia

  • TBR Contributor
  • *****
  • Posts: 41,440
Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #1 on: December 28, 2017, 06:56:31 PM »
I hope this goes to the Supremes.
"January 20th 2017 will be remembered as the day the people became the rulers of this nation again."  --  President Donald J. Trump

Offline The Ghost

  • Very Special Agent and
  • TBR Contributor
  • *****
  • Posts: 9,775
Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2017, 08:02:40 PM »
I hope this goes to the Supremes.

It better.  In the meantime we can look forward to that cisgender person Jazz something to  tell us why the court was correct to rule as it did. 
“Here’s the truth. Life begins at conception. Government is too big. Our taxes are too high. And our car insurance is too expensive. President Trump is doing a great job. Facts matter more than feelings. The Second Amendment is self-explanatory. And as a doctor, I can assure you there are only two genders.”

Offline goatprairie

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 5,271
Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2017, 10:23:42 PM »
The issue primarily has nothing to do with religion or artistry but the right of a business to make whatever it wants to make without being coerced into doing so by the gov. or a customer.
No customer has the right to tell a business it must make a certain type of item for them.
The libs are liars when they claim it's about prejudice. None of those libs will attack Muslim bakeries or businesses for not making homosexual-themed items. For obvious reasons. They wish to undermine and destroy the moral and ethical foundations of the country.

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 10,609
  • Sept 11 2001 or March 6 1836
Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2017, 09:23:03 AM »
This looks to me to be a total shakedown anyway.

$135,000 awarded for 'emotional distress', not by any court but by a thug bureaucrat?

3rd World country stuff.

That bureaucrat should be fired and pension removed for creating this situation as well as removing a business from the state.
Yearning to stay free takes place in many ways at many different times, whether by withstanding planes or bayonets

Offline txradioguy

  • Propaganda NCOIC
  • Cat Mod
  • ****
  • Posts: 18,667
  • Rule #39
Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2017, 09:28:11 AM »
I hope this goes to the Supremes.

Well if the Supreme Court rules in favor of the Colorado baker in the case that is at their level now...the lawyers in the Oregon case representing that baker have a ready made appeal to the current state level ruling.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline INVAR

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 12,042
  • Dread To Tread
    • Sword At The Ready
Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2017, 12:03:27 PM »
It better.  In the meantime we can look forward to that cisgender person Jazz something to  tell us why the court was correct to rule as it did.

He has already stated that his desire is to empower the state to punish 'bigots'.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Online verga

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 4,356
Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2017, 06:18:07 PM »
Rand Paul said it best in regards to Obama care. This is nothing more than slavery, you are requiring a person to perform work agaisnt their will.
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
�More than any other time in history, mankind faces a crossroads. One path leads to despair and utter hopelessness. The other, to total extinction. Let us pray we have the wisdom to choose correctly.�-Woody Allen
If God invented marathons to keep people from doing anything more stupid, the triathlon must have taken him completely by surprise.

Offline The Ghost

  • Very Special Agent and
  • TBR Contributor
  • *****
  • Posts: 9,775
Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2017, 07:47:50 PM »
He has already stated that his desire is to empower the state to punish 'bigots'.

He's a real sport that person. 
“Here’s the truth. Life begins at conception. Government is too big. Our taxes are too high. And our car insurance is too expensive. President Trump is doing a great job. Facts matter more than feelings. The Second Amendment is self-explanatory. And as a doctor, I can assure you there are only two genders.”

Oceander

  • Guest
Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2017, 07:54:20 PM »
Rand Paul said it best in regards to Obama care. This is nothing more than slavery, you are requiring a person to perform work agaisnt their will.

This isn’t slavery. 

Online TomSea

  • TBR Contributor
  • *****
  • Posts: 35,554
Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2017, 08:07:02 PM »
It better.  In the meantime we can look forward to that cisgender person Jazz something to  tell us why the court was correct to rule as it did.
@The Ghost

People should lay off Jazz, he just states his views. How is that worse, than folks who claim to be moral but would gladly see an Obama or Clinton in office with their views as well?  Same difference as far as I'm concerned. Oh, we who might have voted to see the GOP in office are genuflecting to Trump according to some of these folks.

Online verga

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 4,356
Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2017, 10:17:10 PM »
This isn’t slavery.
Forced to work that are opposed to, and without your consent. What would you call it?
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
�More than any other time in history, mankind faces a crossroads. One path leads to despair and utter hopelessness. The other, to total extinction. Let us pray we have the wisdom to choose correctly.�-Woody Allen
If God invented marathons to keep people from doing anything more stupid, the triathlon must have taken him completely by surprise.

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 10,609
  • Sept 11 2001 or March 6 1836
Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #12 on: December 29, 2017, 10:37:59 PM »
This isn’t slavery.
It is nothing but slavery to be forced to do someone else's bidding.

It damn sure isn't freedom.
Yearning to stay free takes place in many ways at many different times, whether by withstanding planes or bayonets

Oceander

  • Guest
Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2017, 10:40:56 PM »
It is nothing but slavery to be forced to do someone else's bidding.

It damn sure isn't freedom.

Yeah, right.  I suppose it's slavery then, if a railroad is forced, under penalty of criminal prosecution, to operate with certain safety features in place, or to be required to offer its services to all comers (i.e., to be a "common carrier").

Requiring that a business be operated according to certain rules and regulations, and subjecting business owners to fines and penalties if they violate those rules and regulations, is not slavery.

The bakers were never forced into baking cakes; they had a simple choice:  follow the laws that apply to the commercial activity of baking cakes, or don't get into the business of baking cakes for profit.

The penalty, of course, seems outlandish and quite possibly unconstitutionally harsh given the minimal harm suffered by the folks who didn't get a cake baked.  Attacking that seems to me to be the better route.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2017, 10:43:08 PM by Oceander »

Oceander

  • Guest
Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #14 on: December 29, 2017, 10:45:22 PM »
Forced to work that are opposed to, and without your consent. What would you call it?

Nobody forced them to bake cakes; they voluntarily chose to enter into the business of baking cakes for profit, and if they choose not to follow the rules and regulations that apply to that business, then they have nobody to blame but themselves when they're fined for violating those rules and regulations.

It is no different than the sanitation laws that apply to restaurants and commercial kitchens - someone who gets into the business of owning a restaurant must operate their kitchen in accordance with the sanitation laws or risk being fined for violations.

Offline INVAR

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 12,042
  • Dread To Tread
    • Sword At The Ready
Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #15 on: December 29, 2017, 11:06:29 PM »
I will be most eager to see efforts made at Muslim bakeries, who voluntarily entered into business to make a profit, to require them to make cakes for Bar Mitzvahs, Christenings and homo weddings.

Should be a real interesting turn-of-events.

Unless of course - these "laws" are only applicable to "Christian" businesses and "rules" only apply to them and not to protected classes of bakeries.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline Cyber Liberty

  • Coffee! Donuts! Kittens!
  • Administrator
  • ******
  • Posts: 45,708
  • We got 'im now!®
Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #16 on: December 29, 2017, 11:28:32 PM »
I will be most eager to see efforts made at Muslim bakeries, who voluntarily entered into business to make a profit, to require them to make cakes for Bar Mitzvahs, Christenings and homo weddings.

Should be a real interesting turn-of-events.

Unless of course - these "laws" are only applicable to "Christian" businesses and "rules" only apply to them and not to protected classes of bakeries.

It's been done.  The bureaucrats simply ignored the violations, as we would expect, see link.  As for our mutual "friend" mentioned upthread, he's only posted three times since the week before Christmas, and in each post demanded to know if somebody was "alt-right," whatever the heck that means.  Apparently his Mommy bought him a new dog whistle for Christmas.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/apr/5/video-puts-muslim-bakeries-florists-in-gay-rights-/
Don't call it the "Federal Government," that's an insult to the Founders.  It's a "National Government."
I will NOT comply.
                          Castillo del Cyber! ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Online verga

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 4,356
Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #17 on: December 30, 2017, 12:35:23 AM »
Yeah, right.  I suppose it's slavery then, if a railroad is forced, under penalty of criminal prosecution, to operate with certain safety features in place, or to be required to offer its services to all comers (i.e., to be a "common carrier").

Requiring that a business be operated according to certain rules and regulations, and subjecting business owners to fines and penalties if they violate those rules and regulations, is not slavery.

The bakers were never forced into baking cakes; they had a simple choice:  follow the laws that apply to the commercial activity of baking cakes, or don't get into the business of baking cakes for profit.

The penalty, of course, seems outlandish and quite possibly unconstitutionally harsh given the minimal harm suffered by the folks who didn't get a cake baked.  Attacking that seems to me to be the better route.
@Oceander Your analogy is a Non Sequitur Are Jewish deli's required to sell non kosher meat or pork?
The bakers were never forced into baking cakes; they had a simple choice:  follow the laws that apply to the commercial activity of baking cakes, Can you site the specific law the says they are required to violate there own beliefs, you see there is this little thing in the Constitution called the first amendment that prevents the government from infringing on my religious beliefs.
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
�More than any other time in history, mankind faces a crossroads. One path leads to despair and utter hopelessness. The other, to total extinction. Let us pray we have the wisdom to choose correctly.�-Woody Allen
If God invented marathons to keep people from doing anything more stupid, the triathlon must have taken him completely by surprise.

Offline Cyber Liberty

  • Coffee! Donuts! Kittens!
  • Administrator
  • ******
  • Posts: 45,708
  • We got 'im now!®
Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #18 on: December 30, 2017, 12:52:01 AM »
@Oceander Your analogy is a Non Sequitur Are Jewish deli's required to sell non kosher meat or pork?
The bakers were never forced into baking cakes; they had a simple choice:  follow the laws that apply to the commercial activity of baking cakes, Can you site the specific law the says they are required to violate there own beliefs, you see there is this little thing in the Constitution called the first amendment that prevents the government from infringing on my religious beliefs.

Don't forget the "Right of Association" that's implied in the 1st Amendment.  I never hear any mention of that.  Probably won't.

http://constitution.findlaw.com/amendment1/annotation12.html
Don't call it the "Federal Government," that's an insult to the Founders.  It's a "National Government."
I will NOT comply.
                          Castillo del Cyber! ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline anubias

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2,373
Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #19 on: December 30, 2017, 02:15:27 AM »
He's a real sport that person.

Sport?  Since when did refrigerator packing become a sport?  Did I miss a new Winter Olympic designation?

Oceander

  • Guest
Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #20 on: December 30, 2017, 04:00:09 PM »
@Oceander Your analogy is a Non Sequitur Are Jewish deli's required to sell non kosher meat or pork?
The bakers were never forced into baking cakes; they had a simple choice:  follow the laws that apply to the commercial activity of baking cakes, Can you site the specific law the says they are required to violate there own beliefs, you see there is this little thing in the Constitution called the first amendment that prevents the government from infringing on my religious beliefs.

It's very simple:  if you engage in a commercial enterprise, you follow reasonable rules or regulations, even if they violate your personal subjective beliefs, or you get penalized for it.

If the baker's personal religious beliefs were so damned precious to them, then they would have quit the cake-baking business.  That they did not, simply demonstrates that those beliefs aren't nearly as precious to them as they are now claiming.

There is nothing in the Constitution that guarantees complete freedom to do whatever the hell you want, and even less so when it comes to commercial activities, which have always received less protection than purely private noncommercial activities.

I know you don't like it, but that's only because you hate bleep and want the untrammelled right to discriminate against them.

Oceander

  • Guest
Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #21 on: December 30, 2017, 04:02:21 PM »
@Oceander Your analogy is a Non Sequitur Are Jewish deli's required to sell non kosher meat or pork?
The bakers were never forced into baking cakes; they had a simple choice:  follow the laws that apply to the commercial activity of baking cakes, Can you site the specific law the says they are required to violate there own beliefs, you see there is this little thing in the Constitution called the first amendment that prevents the government from infringing on my religious beliefs.

You clearly don't know what the term "non sequitur" means (and it's not capitalized).  Is there a law that requires all delis to sell non-kosher meat or pork?

You haven't pointed to any, so your comparison is utterly meaningless.  Just like your hatred for gay people.

Oceander

  • Guest
Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #22 on: December 30, 2017, 04:03:16 PM »
Don't forget the "Right of Association" that's implied in the 1st Amendment.  I never hear any mention of that.  Probably won't.

http://constitution.findlaw.com/amendment1/annotation12.html

The "right of association" does not generally apply to commercial enterprises.  If it were, then none of the anti-discrimination laws would be constitutional.

Oceander

  • Guest
Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #23 on: December 30, 2017, 04:03:40 PM »
It's absolutely fascinating the level of hatred displayed on this thread.

Offline txradioguy

  • Propaganda NCOIC
  • Cat Mod
  • ****
  • Posts: 18,667
  • Rule #39
Re: Court rules against Oregon bakers in wedding-cake case
« Reply #24 on: December 30, 2017, 04:45:01 PM »
He's a real sport that person.

Stick around long enough you'll see him rail against judicial activism in one thread and defend it in the next.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf